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Thread: PSTOL flaps yes or no?

  1. #1

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    PSTOL flaps yes or no?

    Wings getting rebuilt …. Should I put pstol flaps on or just have the stock flaps on…. Pro cons… worth the money?

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    In my opinion the best mod one can do on a supercub. They really work.
    John
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    Definitely yes. If you aren’t going to put them on right away or the wait is too long at least have the install/doubler kit put on the wing. That sure makes the most sense to me.
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  4. #4
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Doublers at least. Don’t use bolt on Dakota flap hinges. They are a pain to put the doublers inside the hinges. But yes. They really do work. Very well. As long as you have the strength to pull the flap handle. Also change o. The flap return springs with heavy duty from Univair when you put the doublers on.


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  5. #5
    Grant's Avatar
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    If you do end up going with the PSTOL, I am looking for a good set of stock flaps if anyone ends up with a set collecting dust...

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    pa 18 flaps

    Grant I have a pair of stock flaps off my 1976 pa18. john watkins 3104150817

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3689A View Post
    Wings getting rebuilt …. Should I put pstol flaps on or just have the stock flaps on…. Pro cons… worth the money?
    What is your mission?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    Mission … having a great preforming aircraft…..
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    P-STOl flaps are one of the best mods I have done on my Super Cub for getting in and out the shortest. I have talked to several people who were considering the modification and their goals were not really gonna be met by adding the flaps. They are a very expensive modification in my opinion, the installation is pretty involved and they add 12 lbs. I have gotten use to their performance and really see the difference when I fly a Super Cub with standard flaps. I think I have installed 10 or more sets of the Performance STOL Flaps.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    The real question is, does the price match the performance increase? Are PSTOLs an improvement? Sure! But does the performance directly correlate with the price? Or for the money, is there better mods to be had? Big tires, shocks (acme will be certified soon), and CF ground adjustable props just may give better overall bang for your buck vs performance then PSTOL.

    All I know is, once you spend PSTOL money on a set of flaps, you will absolutely do everything in your power to justify them.

  11. #11
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKaaron View Post
    The real question is, does the price match the performance increase? Are PSTOLs an improvement? Sure! But does the performance directly correlate with the price? Or for the money, is there better mods to be had? Big tires, shocks (acme will be certified soon), and CF ground adjustable props just may give better overall bang for your buck vs performance then PSTOL.

    All I know is, once you spend PSTOL money on a set of flaps, you will absolutely do everything in your power to justify them.
    After installing them on customer's airplanes and seeing what they would did it was that much better on my own since I am infinitely familiar with flying it.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKaaron View Post
    The real question is, does the price match the performance increase? Are PSTOLs an improvement? Sure! But does the performance directly correlate with the price? Or for the money, is there better mods to be had? Big tires, shocks (acme will be certified soon), and CF ground adjustable props just may give better overall bang for your buck vs performance then PSTOL.

    All I know is, once you spend PSTOL money on a set of flaps, you will absolutely do everything in your power to justify them.
    These flaps work, one does not have to justify the $$, they speak for themselves in true performance changes.
    And doubt you will get any performance increase with big tires or shocks. Might change your landings, but certainly the flaps change takeoff and landing performance, speeds, etc. Biggest bang for the buck, expensive but they truly change the cub performance. No having to justify them for the $$ spent.
    John
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  13. #13
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    You mean you don’t have all the other mods? You soon will. It’s a slippery slope.


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  14. #14

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    Yes I have all the mods except for a couple..

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    I live in a neighborhood that includes several really good Supercub pilots. I haven’t noticed Pstol flaps on any of their planes. I like my own flaps but mine are deeper chord and wider span than approved flaps. Are Pstol flaps good? Sure. Those little ones are about 1/3 as good as mine. Mine are about 3/4 as good as Mackey’s. And so it goes.

    If a guy has $10K to spend the best performance enhancement he can buy is avgas and seat time. If he has $20K and buys both? He’ll be marginally better at stol ops with improved flaps.

    Bottom line. I’ve never been and will never be the best Cub pilot I know. For me adding performance mods closes the gap between me and the good drivers and allows me to operate in distances and at speeds I’m not used to. Not that it makes much difference to anyone but I enjoy the pursuit and my wife gave me the nod to spend the money. About a mile away there’s a guy with a plane very similar to mine. He uses standard flaps saying he’s not willing to spend the money to add the weight for Pstol flaps. He’s can do things in his plane that I can’t do. Proof that the pilot is still the most important part of the airplane.
    Last edited by stewartb; 06-29-2021 at 09:08 AM.
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  16. #16

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    I’m guessing like most mods installed on Cubs they will increase the overall value of the plane. That should be considered too.


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    I think Stewart has nailed this question, maybe a blunter way to answer it would be after I spend $10k on PSTOL
    flaps, will It make up the difference between an low experience Cub pilot and a pro.......... Not just NO it's more like "Hell NO". There is NO mod you can add that will........
    Would it be nice to have a flatter deck angle landing in some goofy Tite spot. Of course it would, But the pro will land there anyway, with any Cub Unmodified. Can you now land there because you have PSTOL flaps???
    Likely NOT.
    Good Luck with your decision
    E

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    I think Stewart has nailed this question, maybe a blunter way to answer it would be after I spend $10k on PSTOL
    flaps, will It make up the difference between an low experience Cub pilot and a pro.......... Not just NO it's more like "Hell NO". There is NO mod you can add that will........
    Would it be nice to have a flatter deck angle landing in some goofy Tite spot. Of course it would, But the pro will land there anyway, with any Cub Unmodified. Can you now land there because you have PSTOL flaps???
    Likely NOT.
    Good Luck with your decision
    E
    The flaps will lower the stall speed and provide better deck angle for approach, so even limited experience pilot will obtain better safety margin when using these flaps. Guys who are good of course will outperform with or without, but same guy will do best with these flaps. They do work.
    John
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I live in a neighborhood that includes several really good Supercub pilots. I haven’t noticed Pstol flaps on any of their planes. I like my own flaps but mine are deeper chord and wider span than approved flaps. Are Pstol flaps good? Sure. Those little ones are about 1/3 as good as mine. Mine are about 3/4 as good as Mackey’s. And so it goes.

    If a guy has $10K to spend the best performance enhancement he can buy is avgas and seat time. If he has $20K and buys both? He’ll be marginally better at stol ops with improved flaps.

    Bottom line. I’ve never been and will never be the best Cub pilot I know. For me adding performance mods closes the gap between me and the good drivers and allows me to operate in distances and at speeds I’m not used to. Not that it makes much difference to anyone but I enjoy the pursuit and my wife gave me the nod to spend the money. About a mile away there’s a guy with a plane very similar to mine. He uses standard flaps saying he’s not willing to spend the money to add the weight for Pstol flaps. He’s can do things in his plane that I can’t do. Proof that the pilot is still the most important part of the airplane.
    I have 1000 hrs in my cub, 600 or so before i rebuilt it. It is a light cub. 1080 on 31's. Last year they had a few stol contests locall. I flew in them. I think i have a pretty good feel for my airplane. Add up all of last years take offs and landings and average them total was 306.5 and after p stol flaps was 245. 25% shorter overall 35% shorter landings. I bet that over all is skewed a little as the engine got overhauled and had lycon flow the cylinders. Best part of pstol is the nose is lower at the same speed, and its easier to land short higher with a stabilized approach, and not nose high dragging the tail wheel for the shortest landing. I can do that with the pstol but its not much shorter and not pratical in the real world. Before the pstol flaps i would fly a faster stabilized approach off airport, and drag it in nose high for the stol stuff. Now i fly the same and it is slower and shorter than my old landings .
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  20. #20
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Earl hit it right on the head. If I were still competing I would have to have them. In the real world there isn't any place I am going to go that I can't do with the flaps I have. It would be nice, but too expensive for me for the flying I do not counting the work to install them. Kind of glad I am too old to "gotta have em".
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    I have 1000 hrs in my cub, 600 or so before i rebuilt it. It is a light cub. 1080 on 31's. Last year they had a few stol contests locall. I flew in them. I think i have a pretty good feel for my airplane. Add up all of last years take offs and landings and average them total was 306.5 and after p stol flaps was 245. 25% shorter overall 35% shorter landings. I bet that over all is skewed a little as the engine got overhauled and had lycon flow the cylinders. Best part of pstol is the nose is lower at the same speed, and its easier to land short higher with a stabilized approach, and not nose high dragging the tail wheel for the shortest landing. I can do that with the pstol but its not much shorter and not pratical in the real world. Before the pstol flaps i would fly a faster stabilized approach off airport, and drag it in nose high for the stol stuff. Now i fly the same and it is slower and shorter than my old landings .
    ….and after nitrous
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  22. #22
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    I have them now and it is amazing once you really get them down to where they need to be. I started with full flaps as it came from Javron which gave me a deflection on the ground of around 53 degrees and 2 mph slower landing speed at the same attitude.
    I then changed my flap handle bellcrank (see video picture of mod) to get 70 plus degrees of deflection and that was good for another 2-3 mph at landing for a total of 4-5 mph slower landings at the same attitude as when I had stock flaps. I love them!
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  23. #23

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    Stock length and chord? Comparing approved to Exp is apples and oranges.

    What did you do to the bell cranks? My original bell cranks caused problems so I shorted one leg. Much better now.

  24. #24
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    I had stock chord/stock length flaps to begin with. Experimental double slotted flaps are the same as certified in this case. The bell crank in the wing is stock. Watch the video and you will see how the flap handle bell crank was extended. Obviously you can not legally do it to a certified cub. But I would if it was mine.
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  25. #25

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    Pass. You lost me at stock. I assumed that was the case because I don’t know anyone with longer-deeper flaps strong enough to pull 70°, but there’s no reason to. Your video may help the OP, though.

  26. #26
    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    I know someone with 90" Double Slotted that has no problem and did the same mod as me, the picture in the video is of his handle not mine. If you have not used more deflection you would not know the benefit. As with anything trail and error is how we find what works. I had a 110" double slotted flaps on my other cub and made new longer bell cranks that went into the wing (they were 1" longer then stock) It worked as I thought it would more flaps more better.
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  27. #27

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    Yep, been there done that. I like where mine are now. A friend told me an Exp airplane is never finished. That’s one of my favorite things, tinkering to make things better. Enjoy the summer.
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