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Thread: Worst airport in America!

  1. #1

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    Worst airport in America!

    So I am based out of Ogden, which used to be a nice 3 runway airport 20 years ago. Well the city has has decided to exercise their right to refuse to renew leases at the airport. Your choice is to remove your hangar or give it to the city. They have seized 17 hangars and tore down 5 structures. Well in the process of tearing down the 3 they did this week, they damaged my hangar. I know that airport manager doesn’t think much of my little T-hangar but it’s a nice place to store my airplane. Well the last time they tore down a structure, they damaged someone else’s roof and the airport manager told the owner it was their problem because the city could not be held liable per the newly written leases. If passing through Utah, avoid Ogden, you may not be able to get through the international airport level security and get back to your airplane. Brigham city or bountiful sky park are much better options.
    I am seriously upset that there are now holes in the walls of my hangar!!!!! Not sure how I can approach this when the manager can terminate my lease for no cause and lock me out so I could of even remove my hangar…
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  2. #2
    windy's Avatar
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    Call ORAA - you did join ORAA, didn’t you?
    Or call AOPA. They’re there to help the little guys.


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  3. #3
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    Recreational Aviation Foundation, Utah Liaisons:

    Wayne Loeber
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    wloeber@theraf.org

    Wendy Lessig
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    wlessig@theraf.org

    Wendy speaks "Super Cub" quite well. I'd start with the RAF.
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  4. #4

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    I am part of the Hangar owners lawsuit, but the last building they tore down damaged another owners roof and the airport manager told that owner its their problem and if he didnt like it they would gladly terminate his lease...sheer blackmale.
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  5. #5
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Sounds like your airport manager is trying to takeover the worst ranking from KHCR’s reputation.

    Note: the airport manager at KHCR is great, it is the FBO (OK3) that is the issue here

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah-Jay View Post
    Sounds like your airport manager is trying to takeover the worst ranking from KHCR’s reputation.

    Note: the airport manager at KHCR is great, it is the FBO (OK3) that is the issue here
    Well Nadime(OK3) left Ogden because it was such a hard place to work with... I am probably going to move my stuff somewhere else... Parawon is building 23 Hangars, Bountiful is building 80 at all of the different lots, just too rich for my blood. My work left Ogden because they just didnt want another flight school there i guess, even though we are the largest flight school in Utah.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by astjp2 View Post
    Well Nadime(OK3) left Ogden because it was such a hard place to work with... I am probably going to move my stuff somewhere else... Parawon is building 23 Hangars, Bountiful is building 80 at all of the different lots, just too rich for my blood. My work left Ogden because they just didnt want another flight school there i guess, even though we are the largest flight school in Utah.
    IF I could bring an airport operation to me, it would be the folks at UT9 (West Desert)! Mark and Alina are amazing.

  8. #8

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    Did they amend the Airport Master Plan and are re-purposing the area if so that is a prescribed process with public comments and hearings required and if they didn't follow the requirements you can file an FAA complaint?

    A couple of options

    • Get it repaired and file a tort claim with the City
    • FAA Complaint (the more the better)
    • Hire Legal Council
    • Make appointments and talk to City Councilors away from the CM
    • Accept the intimidation
    • Lastly, it may be news media time, which can be very effective


    Oh and properly document all communications with the City, if you have a conversation with the CM confirm it back to him via email and tell others to do the same.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 06-18-2021 at 10:48 AM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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    Thanks, there are about 200 litigants now involved in a lawsuit, unfortunately it has and is happening all around the country. I have found that the city council just rubber stamped the city code changes for reversion to occur. This new airport manager was hired to specifically close all of the FBO's, stop any through the fence operations (FBO), confiscate hangars to tear them down, and work on getting grants and bonds to build all new city owned hangars. The new master plan is so crazy expensive that the airport will never be profitable because it will take generations to pay back the debt incurred. The county is still trying to tax hangars at full value but every hangar is now has no value because they cannot be sold, only the city can take ownership. They also only want to be the only fuel seller, oh and of the hangars they took, they rented out for a while at double the going rate... I just dont see a win and I can hope that I can survive somewhat intact.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by astjp2 View Post
    I am part of the Hangar owners lawsuit, but the last building they tore down damaged another owners roof and the airport manager told that owner its their problem and if he didnt like it they would gladly terminate his lease...sheer blackmale.
    Geeeze.........It ud b a shame should he turn on the lights in his car to go home and they wouldn't work due to being broken!
    N1PA
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Geeeze.........It ud b a shame should he turn on the lights in his car to go home and they wouldn't work due to being broken!
    Too many cameras...and he now open carries...
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Did they amend the Airport Master Plan and are re-purposing the area if so that is a prescribed process with public comments and hearings required and if they didn't follow the requirements you can file an FAA complaint?

    A couple of options

    • Get it repaired and file a tort claim with the City
    • FAA Complaint (the more the better)
    • Hire Legal Council
    • Make appointments and talk to City Councilors away from the CM
    • Accept the intimidation
    • Lastly, it may be news media time, which can be very effective


    Oh and properly document all communications with the City, if you have a conversation with the CM confirm it back to him via email and tell others to do the same.
    What he said..........
    "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"

  13. #13
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    Does the airport have outstanding Grant Assurances? Contact the FAA Airport people and find out what their grant assurances say- you will probably find that they are in violation of their agreement with the FAA, which will require them to pay back the Grants.

    That would be my very first thing if you have tried going to the City council. Amazing what happens when the FAA tells airports "you can NOT do that", and the FAA hold the purse strings.

    Oh, and future grants are often difficult to get if you are pushing aviation out of your airport.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    astjp2 I fill your pain, started planning for retirement in 1994 and enjoying flying until the end at Ogden airport great people and airport bought a hanger and plane. In 2015 the airport came out with new rules you must provide a ASCE41-13 Teir 1 Seismic Evaluation to get a 15 year lease this was item #4 on my 5/26/15 (the) first hangar inspection of the airport, someone reported to the airport manager I was going to pass the Teir 1, and you'll never guess the rules have changed and my hangar inspection disappeared out of there office along with my engineering which I resent to the NEW airport manager, I keep good records. After the new airport manager manager received my 5/26/16 inspection and P.E stamped Teir 1 (QUOTE) on Nov 6 2020
    (Once we receive your Teir 1 receipt from your engineering company per Mr G------ we will refund your expense, due to the fact you didn't receive a 15 year lease and should not of been made to complete a Teir 1.) I sent them the invoice and you'll never guess, on Jan 15 2021 received an email with a big excuse and pretty pictures of new hangars and (QUOTE) due to the reasons above, I can no longer pursue providing you a refund for the cost of your Teir One inspection. I am sorry. Oh by the way this after he let me sell my hangar and plane.
    Good luck Ogden.
    FLYNLW
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  15. #15

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    "Does the airport have outstanding Grant Assurances? Contact the FAA Airport people and find out what their grant assurances say- you will probably find that they are in violation of their agreement with the FAA, which will require them to pay back the Grants.

    That would be my very first thing if you have tried going to the City council. Amazing what happens when the FAA tells airports "you can NOT do that", and the FAA hold the purse strings.

    Oh, and future grants are often difficult to get if you are pushing aviation out of your airport."

    This ^^^^^

  16. #16
    Aeronut's Avatar
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    I'm not a lawyer but it sure sounds like there's a ton of legitimate lawsuits here. I'm glad to hear a lot of people are fighting it. Hopefully their lawsuits are setup to succeed on solid legal arguments which shouldn't be too difficult to find given the actions of the town.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa12drvr View Post
    "Does the airport have outstanding Grant Assurances? Contact the FAA Airport people and find out what their grant assurances say- you will probably find that they are in violation of their agreement with the FAA, which will require them to pay back the Grants.

    That would be my very first thing if you have tried going to the City council. Amazing what happens when the FAA tells airports "you can NOT do that", and the FAA hold the purse strings.

    Oh, and future grants are often difficult to get if you are pushing aviation out of your airport."

    This ^^^^^
    The FAA has never made any airport payback a grant that we have found, its only a threat that they never follow through on. The airport manager is known for basically saying that if you don't like it, we can terminate your lease effective immediately...
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    Wow! I'm sure everything will work out just fine now that the Feds and local politicians are involved.

    Having the city be the only fuel supplier doesn't sound like capitalism to me.

  20. #20

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    No one is going to win in this, the airport will be angry with the hangar owners because of compromise and the hangar owners will be angry with the city over any compromises...

  21. #21
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    Sadly I agree with you. Most likely not a 'win win'.

  22. #22
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    If Ogden takes a dime in federal money--they must conform to ALL federal laws. There must be female pilots/ plane owners adversely affected. File discrimination lawsuits seeking cease and desist and seek damages. It is obvious that they are attempting to destroy the airport--for whatever reason.
    Marine Corps Aviation since 1966

  23. #23
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    Seems Utah has two in the top 5 worst airport operations, as stated above KHCR I believe has the one of the worst FBO’s in the country. Our airport manager is a good guy… I am pretty sure he would like to get rid of the FBO operator or at least bring in another FBO…. But OK3 the FBO sued the city when they tried that…. Welcome to $6.15 AvGas

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    Figured I would add to the worst airport in America issue. ogden can go to hell. I saw I caused some drama on facebook and redit and thought I would just post my side here, from the horses mouth.

    The other day and friend and I were playing around on Fremont island and I went to go to my home airport and my engine was acting up. Couldn't get full power and was running rough. Ogden was closest and thats where my buddy I was flying with was based out of so I figured I would go there and see what was going on. Well i landed no issue and couldn't repeat the engine abnormality. It was getting late and my wife was close by so she just came to pick me up and I left my plane in a tie down that a mutual friend gave me permission to use. I Put a note on my windshield that said I was a guest of his and left.

    Next day I go get my plane and fly it home no issues. Must have been carb ice or something. Damn Rotax engines are weird. well come to find out the airport manager left this note on my windshield but my buddy went and tore it off then sent me a photo. See below. This manager threats to impound my plane and is just an overall ass. doesnt leave a name or number just an open ended threat. So I find his number and call him and tried really hard to be polite but right out the gates this guy is an ass. "hey I wish you would have left a phone number so i didn't have to track you down" I said. "well youre talking to me now, aren't you?" says the manager. Off to a great start.

    Long story short we get in an argument I state that i understand he has a job to do and appreciate keeping his airport in line but wish the note would have been a little more courteous. He claims this keeps happening and he is sick of it so he has no choice but to impound people now. Oh and by the way impound is boot my 29" ABW and make me pay a $15 daily transient ramp fee. Again, he's got a job to do but he is missing the point. Be inviting and people will fly in and buy gas and go into town and spend money at the local economy (which we did after my wife got me and we went to a local sushi joint). Being an anonymous ass is getting the airport with a terrible reputation no where.

    - Dustin

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  25. #25

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    I just tried to view the Ogden airport Facebook page, got a weird error, maybe I am banned and don’t know it? Lol
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  26. #26

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    Thanks for heads up on avoiding this one…

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    33 years ago I was new to the Mine in Platinum Ak.…this electrician made this statement to something I was wanking about. He said, “oh well”. I just couldn’t go there at the time, I later learned he had this err…..habit…. Engraving brass with a name. He’d say…If I ever get sick…
    Sadly a few years ago he passed away in his sleep three months after retiring at the age of 62.

    And open carry just means…..nothing up close happens.

    I’m for decriminalizing punching asterd holes in the nose…sure wanted to practice that…at the apple store in Anchorage a few days ago.. sadly…I’m so….some how…… that I’m easily identifiable…


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  28. #28
    skukum12's Avatar
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    ^^^can anyone translate this post for me? No offense but I am just not picking up what he is putting down.
    "Always looking up"
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  29. #29

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    Might be able to dig in and find appropriate laws in defense of the manger if the airport ever took a dime from the FAA.

    https://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/gra...rances-aip.pdf

  30. #30
    Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    33 years ago I was new to the Mine in Platinum Ak.…this electrician made this statement to something I was wanking about. He said, “oh well”. I just couldn’t go there at the time, I later learned he had this err…..habit…. Engraving brass with a name. He’d say…If I ever get sick…
    Sadly a few years ago he passed away in his sleep three months after retiring at the age of 62.

    And open carry just means…..nothing up close happens.

    I’m for decriminalizing punching asterd holes in the nose…sure wanted to practice that…at the apple store in Anchorage a few days ago.. sadly…I’m so….some how…… that I’m easily identifiable…


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    Quote Originally Posted by skukum12 View Post
    ^^^can anyone translate this post for me? No offense but I am just not picking up what he is putting down.
    Drinking and posting..... Probably....
    Last edited by Grant; 10-23-2021 at 07:11 PM.
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  31. #31

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    Red label…made sense at the time. My bad!


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  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    Red label…made sense at the time. My bad!


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    Ha, I understand that. Maybe try blue next time
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  33. #33
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Ha, I understand that. Maybe try blue next time
    Drinking Blue is pretty much equivalent to a full glass IFR panel
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