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Thread: Dakota cub wings vs Univair

  1. #1

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    Dakota cub wings vs Univair

    Pros cons
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  2. #2

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    I have used both and they both have their advantages. Univair ribs are stamped and a bit heavier but a good product. Dakota Cub ribs are lighter because they are built up ribs similar to Piper. If you order the wing parts from Univair, you will have them in about ten days as most are in stock. If you order Dakota Cub wings, there is a lead time because the ribs will have to built up and your order will be placed in the order it comes in. They both are good products. The folks at Dakota are great to work with and have great costumer service, it just takes a little more time. The last wings I built up I used Dakota ribs and a Univair butt rib. As far a the spars go, about the same, not much different. When I build up wings, I strip the fabric off both, but only take one apart at a time and use the other wing as the blueprint. Have fun.

  3. #3

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    I do not care for pop rivets. I think you have to use them on the Univair ribs because of the sharp edge of the stamping.
    I was just stitching yesterday using that young lady's island/palm tree method. Goes really, really fast.

    If you do go Univair, get that Milwaukee battery powered puller. Did a quick repair on a Citabria last month - pulled 25 rivets in what seemed like a minute flat!
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    I do not care for pop rivets. I think you have to use them on the Univair ribs because of the sharp edge of the stamping.
    I was just stitching yesterday using that young lady's island/palm tree method. Goes really, really fast.

    If you do go Univair, get that Milwaukee battery powered puller. Did a quick repair on a Citabria last month - pulled 25 rivets in what seemed like a minute flat!
    Riveting Univair ribs is approved, but is not required. I have rib stitched all the Univair ribs that I have installed. The sharp edges can be covered with some anti-abrasion tape, just takes a second. I agree, I would rather stitch than rivet.
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  5. #5
    Southern Aero's Avatar
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    Hey Bob

    LOL They aren't just "pop" rivets!.............. they are usually Avex or Hansens. Big difference. Depends on the application, they have about 1/2 the shear strength of the same size AD. It took me a while to warm up to them too
    ......... It doesn't cost any more to go first class! You just can't stay as long.
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  6. #6

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    Additionally, I believe you can order fully assembled wings from Dakota, not sure about Univair.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    I buy them from Spruce. Since they are approved for ACA aircraft, I assumed they would be ok on a Univair rib. I was shocked the first time I saw rivets on a Cub wing. Paperwork said ok.

  8. #8
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Additionally, I believe you can order fully assembled wings from Dakota, not sure about Univair.
    Website says you can get them assembled

    https://www.univair.com/piper/piper-...ing-uncovered/

    Or a kit

    https://www.univair.com/piper/piper-...wing-kit-left/

    I wouldn’t imagine either of the companies have them in stock


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  9. #9
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Dakota Cub:
    Truss type ribs similar to Piper yet heavier and stronger than originals, lighter than Univairs.
    .025" thick 5052 leading edge skins.
    CAD plated steel fittings and hardware.

    Univair:
    Stamped ribs, more work to rib stitch because you have to tape the edges. Heavier.
    .020" 2024-T3 leading edge skins.
    Steel parts are primed.

    I have a set of Dakota wings for a current project. Requested landing lights in each wing and subsequent wires along with wires for LED nav/strobes and they accommodated. We had a misunderstanding on the gross weight kit I installed that along with Atlee Dodge tie down fittings. I like the Dakota wings and the way the do their leading edge skins full wrap for the landing lights.
    Steve Pierce

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  10. #10

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    https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...air+rib+weight
    here’s a link to the weight difference
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  11. #11
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Interesting. I had weighed a few individual ribs and came up with Univair being a bit heavier. Must be some give and take between individual ribs. Thanks for posting that, somehow I missed it the first time.
    Steve Pierce

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  12. #12
    Lisa Martin LMartin's Avatar
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    This looked like a thread to poke my question in. I'm rebuilding a left wing on my PA18-105 Special (flaps). I have the gross weight increase to 1750 already, but still 13 rib wings. I'm okay with that. I like the weight savings vs the increased gross. But I'm also spinning in my head btw 13 rib and upgrading to 16. I had intended to go to the 16 when I recovered the wings, which was due this winter, but I didn't intend on the ground loop rebuild of the left. I'm leaning to staying 13 rib now and interested in others' opinions so I don't do something stupid and lazy while I have them opened up. I'm wanting to rebuild a few of the original piper ribs that got bent, both for the experience and the weight savings. Is there new pre-drilled spars I could get (front and back...bent just outside the strut)? I also will get new leading edge on both wings, the originals are pretty bumpy, any advise on where to order that? I don't want to bend the skins myself because I think that would take equipment that I don't have. Thanks for the help.
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  13. #13

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    Both Univair and Dakota Cub have pre-drilled spars and leading edge pieces. The leading edge pieces are bent but not pre-drilled of course. There are holes drilled for rib placement, but not all, so you will need to drill the remainder after the rib is attached. Buy a stop for your drill bit so you don't drill in to the spar web. All other holes are drilled as per Piper. If the other wing isn't uncovered to use as a blueprint, take pictures before you disassemble it.
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  14. #14
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    All you gain with 16 ribs is a higher Vne. I haven't seen any Super Cubs do 158 mph so no big deal to me. I do like the 2 ribs in the tank bay, less prone to cracking.

    Your spars can be spliced if damage is outboard of the strut attach fittings.
    Steve Pierce

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  15. #15
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMartin View Post
    This looked like a thread to poke my question in. I'm rebuilding a left wing on my PA18-105 Special (flaps). I have the gross weight increase to 1750 already, but still 13 rib wings. I'm okay with that. I like the weight savings vs the increased gross. But I'm also spinning in my head btw 13 rib and upgrading to 16.
    There's a long thread on this topic on here, but the 13 rib wing is eligible for the Wip 2000 gross weight kit, I believe. So, if you're rebuilding one wing, and you want to go to the 2000 pound kit eventually, I'd buy the kit now, and incorporate it into the wing build on this wing. Then, when the other wing gets rebuilt, finish the kit.

    MTV
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    There's a long thread on this topic on here, but the 13 rib wing is eligible for the Wip 2000 gross weight kit, I believe. So, if you're rebuilding one wing, and you want to go to the 2000 pound kit eventually, I'd buy the kit now, and incorporate it into the wing build on this wing. Then, when the other wing gets rebuilt, finish the kit.

    MTV
    I recommend you call WipAire with very specific questions if the reason for going to 16 rib wings is a GW increase. First question; what are the approved models for your 2000 lb GW kit. Answer PA18(A)(S)-150. Period. No -135, no -125 no -105. No PA18-150 was ever produced with 13 rib wings, they all have 16 rib wings (if they are legal). For that matter no PA-18-105 was ever made with 16 rib wings. That in itself is a major alteration and would require a field approval or STC. Then ask them if they have any data pertaining to 13 rib wings and their kit. Answer; huba-huba-huba. I believe they may of HAD the data, but apparently don't have it anymore or never did have it. Ask yourself this question, if Wip has the data for 13 rib wings and the STC allows early airframes modified to 1750 (another issue Wip can't explain very well) why would the STC only be legal on -150 cubs? Another misnomer that floats around is "if I put a 150 in my PA18-125 I now have a PA18-150". Wrong. Your data tag states your model. No such thing as a PA18-160 or PA18-180. Made up sales gimmicks. I have had a field approval request at the FSDO for about five months to install the kit in a -135 with an updated fuselage and 16 rib wings (they don't seem able to figure it out). The Flight Manual Supplements (FMS) that come with the STC are specific for -150 cubs. You can't use a FMS not specific to your model. That's a problem that would require, at minimum, new FMS's. This is one example of a systemic problem with early model cubs and the litany of modifications out there and their legal application.
    Last edited by bubb2; 10-18-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  17. #17
    Lisa Martin LMartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
    I recommend you call WipAire with very specific questions if the reason for going to 16 rib wings is a GW increase. First question; what are the approved models for your 2000 lb GW kit. Answer PA18(A)(S)-150. Period. No -135, no -125 no -105. No PA18-150 was ever produced with 13 rib wings, they all have 16 rib wings (if they are legal). For that matter no PA-18-105 was ever made with 16 rib wings. That in itself is a major alteration and would require a field approval or STC. Then ask them if they have any data pertaining to 13 rib wings and their kit. Answer; huba-huba-huba. I believe they may of HAD the data, but apparently don't have it anymore or never did have it. Ask yourself this question, if Wip has the data for 13 rib wings and the STC allows early airframes modified to 1750 (another issue Wip can't explain very well) why would the STC only be legal on -150 cubs? Another misnomer that floats around is "if I put a 150 in my PA18-125 I now have a PA18-150". Wrong. Your data tag states your model. No such thing as a PA18-160 or PA18-180. Made up sales gimmicks. I have had a field approval request at the FSDO for about five months to install the kit in a -135 with an updated fuselage and 16 rib wings (they don't seem able to figure it out). The Flight Manual Supplements (FMS) that come with the STC are specific for -150 cubs. You can't use a FMS not specific to your model. That's a problem that would require, at minimum, new FMS's. This is one example of a systemic problem with early model cubs and the litany of modifications out there and their legal application.
    Thanks, that’s interesting. I guess I’ll just stick with what I have.



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  18. #18

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    I'm not too spun up on PA18-105's but if the primary difference between a -105 and the -135 is only the engine (check the TSDS) there is an easy (relative term) way to convince the FSDO to field approve 16 rib wings in your aircraft. It worked for my -135. If you check the Piper PA18 parts book you will notice that Piper installed 16 rib wings on PA18-135's in their last year of production. That was also the first year of production of the PA18-150. Apparently Piper had some 135 engines left over and stuck them in the "new 150" and marked the data tag as 135's (they may have used other left over 135 parts like the landing gear, etc. my research focused on the wings) . Thus Piper used 16 rib wings in a -135 model. That was enough data to get the wings field approved in my 1953 model.
    Last edited by bubb2; 10-19-2021 at 12:18 AM.
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