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Thread: Aircraft Insurance

  1. #1

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    Aircraft Insurance

    Home-built PA-12 replica, hangared, seasonally on floats or wheel-skis.

    EAA Insurance (in Canada the agent is Nacora) is quoting $3,600 CAD ($2,984 USD) annual premium for $80,000 hull insurance, up 25-percent from last year.

    Is this about in line with what others are paying for similar coverage?

  2. #2
    irishfield's Avatar
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    In flight coverage or just "not in motion". I'm with Marsh for $105K on amphibs, "not in motion". Same $2217 I've paid for the past 15 or so years, give or take 50 bucks up or down each year.

  3. #3

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    If you are over 75, expect some not so favorable treatment by underwriters.

  4. #4

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    I just got a quote from Avemco for my Experimental 11....I’m in my early 50’s ....4000 tailwheel hours
    $75 k hull = $2,076
    $500k property $500k liability = $357
    this is Experimental Amateur Built

  5. #5
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    My liability-only rate is staying steady, actually down slightly this year, and very reasonable. I'm 74. https://lgainsurance.com/
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  6. #6
    skukum12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    My liability-only rate is staying steady, actually down slightly this year, and very reasonable. I'm 74. https://lgainsurance.com/
    Did you have insurance with this company before you turned 70? My neighbor just completed a Cub and he was dropped because of his age.
    "Always looking up"

  7. #7
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Yes - some years ago somebody here pointed me to Ladd Gardner and I've been happy with them. No claims.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  8. #8

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    Wait until you turn 75.

    I have been delighted with my broker - saved me about $600/year. AVEMCO could never match him. Then last year his underwriter gave me a 78% boost. AVEMCO then quoted me $300 less than the new rates. They told me that their increases due to age are stable, and I found them reasonable.

    On the other hand, I have been doing very limited tailwheel instruction in a J3 for ten years - a grand a year, liability only, dual only, and I still needed CFI insurance on top of that. This year it went to $1500, and students had to be tailwheel qualified with 25 hrs in type. In other words, they don’t want to do it any more.

    Its ok - I have had a good run. I can still instruct in Club aircraft if I want.
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  9. #9

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    Sorry for the delay in replying, folks. I ran out of internet data and was too cheap to buy the extra gigs to last until today!

    The final quote came to $4,130 CAD for full coverage. That's too rich for my blood. I'm going with liability only from now on, although even that is $1,260 CAD.

    Loss of the airplane will mean loss of access to our cabin but, who knows - this will probably make me even more cautious than before.

    Much appreciate your comments.

  10. #10

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    75 years old.. Cessna 182A. Liability and $50k hull. $791..
    Thanks flynlow, NunavutPA-12 thanked for this post

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gervae View Post
    I just got a quote from Avemco for my Experimental 11....I’m in my early 50’s ....4000 tailwheel hours
    $75 k hull = $2,076
    $500k property $500k liability = $357
    this is Experimental Amateur Built
    That's interesting, I have Avemco for my certified 12, 3000 TT, 2500 tailwheel, $75000 value, full coverage with a million liability to fly for Lighthawk. I'm 65. Actual premium $1261, $390 liability+ $871 hull. Which I reduce to around $900/yr by changing coverage to 'storage' when I go skiing for the winter.
    Staying alive in an airplane has a lot more to do with mastering ourselves than mastering the aircraft.

  12. #12
    windy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT12 View Post
    That's interesting, I have Avemco for my certified 12, 3000 TT, 2500 tailwheel, $75000 value, full coverage with a million liability to fly for Lighthawk. I'm 65. Actual premium $1261, $390 liability+ $871 hull. Which I reduce to around $900/yr by changing coverage to 'storage' when I go skiing for the winter.
    Very interesting. I got a quote from Avemco 2months ago. Same plane. Same pilot age. Same hull & liability coverage. A few more hours - 5,000TT with 3,800 TW. $2,300 Avemco premium. I went with Global with $90K hull for $1200.

  13. #13

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    80 here. Avemco got me coverage for less than my trusted broker could come up with. I don't have the exact amounts, but it was around $1300 for the Decathlon ($52K hull) and $350 for the J3 (liability only).

    There is some evidence that it depends on which agent you get, but they promise me that it is by exact schedule, and agents have zero flexibility.

    Today this issue came up again - if you fly your friend's airplane, and are "named" on the policy, if anyone tries to tell you you are "covered," get it in writing.
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  14. #14
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Today this issue came up again - if you fly your friend's airplane, and are "named" on the policy, if anyone tries to tell you you are "covered," get it in writing.
    Bob I assume you meant to say “aren’t” named.

    Most don’t do it but I know one owner that pays more to have specifically an “open pilot” policy. This provides specific time/time in type parameters that covers anyone that qualifies without being named.
    On the other hand neither Avemco or hallmark offered any sort of qualifying policy without each pilot being named specifically.

    Pb


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...

  15. #15

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    My Avemco policy names me, and then any pilot with any certificate as long as he or she has a current and effective medical, current flight review and 10 hours in tailwheel aircraft. To me that means I’ll be covered if my “buddy” wrecks my plane but he or she won’t be protected from subrogation by the insurance company, or covered and defended by the insurance company against claims resulting from the accident. I fly a gentlemen’s helicopter and I have additional insured as well as a waiver of subrogation from the insurance company.
    Last edited by mam90; 06-04-2021 at 06:57 AM.
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  16. #16
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    My Avemco policy names me, and then any pilot with any certificate as long as he or she has a current and effective medical, current flight review and 10 hours in tailwheel aircraft. To me that means I’ll be covered if my “buddy” wrecks my plane but he or she won’t be protected from subrogation by the insurance company, or covered and defended by the insurance company against claims resulting from the accident. I fly a gentlemen’s helicopter and I have additional insured as well as a waiver of subrogation from the insurance company.
    Thats correct. AVEMCO also covers with a “qualified instructor”, but it’s important to understand that these provisions DO NOT cover that “other person”. They cover the policy holder. Unless specifically noted in the policy.

    Subrogation is a scary deal.....if you’re going to fly someone else’s plane, make damn sure you’re covered, either by his policy, or by your own non owned insurance policy.

    MTV

  17. #17

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    Mike and Mam got it right. This is so widely misunderstood that even some brokers do not understand it. It takes saying it three times before it sinks in,even with folks who are otherwise quite savvy.

    The words that work: Additional Insured

  18. #18

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    Sometimes folks get confused when their name is added to approved pilots on another person's airplane. If I borrow a friend's airplane, and I either meet his open pilot clause or am specifically named as an additional pilot, then smack the plane, the owner has coverage. But I, personally, have none!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Schoeninger View Post
    Sometimes folks get confused when their name is added to approved pilots on another person's airplane. If I borrow a friend's airplane, and I either meet his open pilot clause or am specifically named as an additional pilot, then smack the plane, the owner has coverage. But I, personally, have none!
    So being on the approved pilots list just shortens the chase to someone for the insurance company to recover their loss from.��
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  20. #20

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    As friend of mine learned in a lawsuit once; the insurance company is working on behalf of their best interests, (within the confines of their contractual agreement with the policy holder)not yours. Never forget that, NEVER NEVER NEVER

  21. #21
    Scooter7779h's Avatar
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    Just got my insurance renewal from AVEMCO. My premium is going DOWN about $100. Full coverage, $125k hull, wheels and wheelskis: $2,471. Happy. Good company, been with them a long time. They paid off on my loved 79H when I lost it in a week.

    I am 8,900 hrs TT, 3,800 hours in PA-12.

    Second edit: that also includes liability coverage for my hangar, naming two additional insured to the premises liability.
    Last edited by Scooter7779h; 06-22-2021 at 07:39 PM. Reason: Add pilot time
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  22. #22

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    Alaska Airmen Association

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  23. #23

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    Scooter - my invoice came in yesterday. 11% increase on the Cub, Decathlon stayed the same as last year.
    Avemco is a good company, but sometimes I wonder if all the agents sing off the same sheet.
    22,000 hrs, 6,000 Cub, no claims. But really old . . .

  24. #24
    Scooter7779h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Scooter - my invoice came in yesterday. 11% increase on the Cub, Decathlon stayed the same as last year.
    Avemco is a good company, but sometimes I wonder if all the agents sing off the same sheet.
    22,000 hrs, 6,000 Cub, no claims. But really old . . .
    Ya, I don’t know. Could be policyholder longevity plays in too, been with them a long time.


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  25. #25

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    So I asked - "how come?" Rather than answer me, a new invoice came in the mail reducing the Cub to last year's rates, and lowering the Decathlon below last year's.

    I dunno -
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  26. #26

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    Of interest - as an octogenarian I have been flatly refused coverage for a ferry flight. Today I find out that at least one underwriter out there is willing to make me "additional insured with waiver of subrogation for a flight from A to B."
    That is a good thing - cannot wait to find out who the underwriter is. Maybe there are still a few Cub cross-countries left for me!
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  27. #27
    cubdrvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Of interest - as an octogenarian I have been flatly refused coverage for a ferry flight. Today I find out that at least one underwriter out there is willing to make me "additional insured with waiver of subrogation for a flight from A to B."
    That is a good thing - cannot wait to find out who the underwriter is. Maybe there are still a few Cub cross-countries left for me!
    A buddy here is 83 and has been refused all insurance for his Bonanza. Just today he told me Avemco agreed to cover liability but no hull.....air or ground.
    He is good with that.
    "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"

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