Airframes Aluminum Strut Issue

[Steve Pierce]

Installed my first set of Airframes aluminum struts today and discovered an issue with the rear strut. Where the front of the strut attach block meets the wing strut attach fittings the joggle that is machined in the strut block hits the strut attach fitting. Called Airframes and talked to engineering and they have never seen this problem before. Called my buddy with these struts and he discovered he has the same issue. Curious if anyone else has run into this?

[Dan Gervae]

That’s real cozy....and the fitting is riveted in so you can’t remove it to machine a relief...what are thinking Steve? Can you relieve the steel fitting on the wing a little bit with a saw blade? Or is that a no no? Looks like it wouldn’t take much. Or maybe a flat file would do it?

[Gordon Misch]

Piper Drawing 10096 shows 3/4" from hole center to bend on the strut. Drawing 14182 shows 5/8" from hole center to end of the attach bracket. I tried to paste in snip from each drawing, but it didn't work. I got the Dwgs from Christian's site - supercubproject.com

[Steve Pierce]

I waiting on Airframes.

[OLDCROWE]

Have you tried reversing them, the second pic it looks like they could be directionally challenged.

[tcraft128]

Waiting on this answer! Also, the bolts in the pictures are wrong, there are no threads.

[KJC]

Interesting. Is the top deck twisted slightly?

[RaisedByWolves]

sure would be nice if they made that notch a little longer.

[Steve Pierce]

There is a radius milled in the block of the rear strut where it changes angles. Problem is on the 4 airplanes I have gotten feedback and looked at personally that distance from the edge of the hole to where the radius starts is 3/8".


From the edge of the hole to the end of the strut attach fitting on the wing is 1/2". That keeps the parts from laying flat against each other.

[Steve Pierce]

Waiting on this answer! Also, the bolts in the pictures are wrong, there are no threads.

Dang, I wasn't suppose to post that picture of my new weight saving trick.

[Steve Pierce]

So I have found 4 airplanes with this issue. Doug Keller who does the engineering for Airframes Alaska called and said he has not seen this issue, nothing has changed in manufacturing and it is not a structural issue. He will submit the paperwork to make the change but that will take a lot of time to approve the change from the FAA.

[OLDCROWE]

Piper wasn't always consistent, are there perhaps different lengths of Strut attach brackets in the world?

[stewartb]

Why not take your choice of cutting tool and radius the strut fitting to address interference? It looks pretty minor.

[redfin]

Steve

What was the final solution to this issue?

(apologies if you posted elsewhere).

[aktango58]

Why not take your choice of cutting tool and radius the strut fitting to address interference? It looks pretty minor.

Looks like the programing on the CNC mill stopped the table just a little shy of design, or the fixture to hold the aluminum was either bolted just off of intended location or made a little short.

[gntw]

[
2 ex cubs in ft St. John with p stol flaps with no cut out notches for hangers. Can’t rig flaps all the way up . Anyone else with this problem. How to fix.

[Steve Pierce]

Steve

What was the final solution to this issue?

(apologies if you posted elsewhere).

Doug told me they were going to change the fitting. Talked to him quite a bit this past week and forgot to ask about it.

[DENNY]

[
2 ex cubs in ft St. John with p stol flaps with no cut out notches for hangers. Can’t rig flaps all the way up . Anyone else with this problem. How to fix.

Call Gabe on monday. 907-331-4480 He follows the forum so he will be able to see the pictures. They have great customer service so I am sure he will find a good fix. DENNY

[Crash, Jr.]

Doug told me they were going to change the fitting. Talked to him quite a bit this past week and forgot to ask about it.

Correct, the fittings were changed shortly after we spoke in 2021 to move that cut back further to allow for variance in wing fittings. Haven't heard from anyone with the same issue since.

On those flaps, I have heard sporadic issues like what you picture there. Seems to be dependent on what experimental wing kit is used as to if the vane leading edge contacts the hangers or not. Unfortunately now that they're painted your options are limited but I would recommend trimming the leading edge out to go around the flap hangar. That's the only solution short of re-skinning the flaps or replacing them completely. The vanes in those pictures look close to level with the bottom of the wing so it may be you only need to rig the flap up to the vane element to get the rigging completed. Like Denny said feel free to give me a call and I can walk you through it.

[gntw]

Correct, the fittings were changed shortly after we spoke in 2021 to move that cut back further to allow for variance in wing fittings. Haven't heard from anyone with the same issue since.

On those flaps, I have heard sporadic issues like what you picture there. Seems to be dependent on what experimental wing kit is used as to if the vane leading edge contacts the hangers or not. Unfortunately now that they're painted your options are limited but I would recommend trimming the leading edge out to go around the flap hangar. That's the only solution short of re-skinning the flaps or replacing them completely. The vanes in those pictures look close to level with the bottom of the wing so it may be you only need to rig the flap up to the vane element to get the rigging completed. Like Denny said feel free to give me a call and I can walk you through it.

My son and I build javeron wing kits ang jay gave them the dimensions for the flaps .we fitted them with out knowing about cut outs. The white cub is smith wing fitted with p stol . See a set after for another cub ex had cut out they just forgot to put them in . They need to be in all

[RaisedByWolves]

Doug told me they were going to change the fitting. Talked to him quite a bit this past week and forgot to ask about it.

Are they going to do anything for us who have the problem?

[RaisedByWolves]

My son and I build javeron wing kits ang jay gave them the dimensions for the flaps .we fitted them with out knowing about cut outs. The white cub is smith wing fitted with p stol . See a set after for another cub ex had cut out they just forgot to put them in . They need to be in all

Had the same problem with a smith kit, got the flaps rigged almost level. Weird the certified flaps have cut outs at the hangars but not the exp ones. Seems like they all should have the cutouts at the hangars

[Steve Pierce]

Are they going to do anything for us who have the problem?

Nope

[The Kid]

Nope

I've found that I too have that issue. What should I do, exactly? I'd like it "right".

[Steve Pierce]

I installed a shim so the steel fitting did not dig into the radius.

[TurboBeaver]

Javrons Aluminum struts fit flawlessly.........

[Steve Pierce]

Here is a picture of my shim.

[skywagon8a]

Here is a picture of my shim.

Steve, Since Airframes doesn't seem to want to rectify this, perhaps an advisory note to the FAA would be in order? You spotted this interference and provided a solution, others may not. What happens when the next mechanic removes and reinstalls this strut? Will he remember the shim? Or not see it when it falls on the floor? When that wing fitting is clamped down tight into the radius of the strut fitting, a stress rising location is created. In worse case scenario, a crack could get started with a possible strut separation. An alternate solution could be to relieve the radius further towards the strut. If I were Airframes, I would correct those parts immediately and at the very least notify all their customers of a fix.. A life could be saved. This could be more serious than it appears on the surface.

[RaisedByWolves]

Steve, Since Airframes doesn't seem to want to rectify this, perhaps an advisory note to the FAA would be in order? You spotted this interference and provided a solution, others may not. What happens when the next mechanic removes and reinstalls this strut? Will he remember the shim? Or not see it when it falls on the floor? When that wing fitting is clamped down tight into the radius of the strut fitting, a stress rising location is created. In worse case scenario, a crack could get started with a possible strut separation. An alternate solution could be to relieve the radius further towards the strut. If I were Airframes, I would correct those parts immediately and at the very least notify all their customers of a fix.. A life could be saved. This could be more serious than it appears on the surface.

I have been talking with my fsdo about it, Seems as if airframes doesn't want to offer any fix, other than we have changed out new ones

[TurboBeaver]

We just had a bad experience with Airframes a few weeks ago concerning TWO sets of Pstol flaps. They had been offering a 20% discount on them at Oshkosh, we assumed
The discount was good for the experimental version, or certified version. The experimental version were advertised for $6600 per kit on their website. So my buddy who had spoke to them at show, conference called em to see what we could do on TWO sets. They fella that answered the phone told us, the 20% discount would only apply on the "New" price of experimental flaps, which was now $8600...... He then backed up like a crawdad, and said I am not sure where you saw that price but it must have been from years ago? I then told him we have a screenshot taken 15 mins ago. He then said it was the webmasters problem ........ I seriously doubt the owner of Airframes would wanted him to handle this way???? Couple other side notes, he also informed us there would be a $300 crating charge; and freight charges. We said "thought it was free shipping??? He said "Not on Flaps"...
He then added there was another $375 for the mounting kit that apparently is not included. So from what I heard experimental flaps that were on the website advertised at $6600 same day we called,see their listing below for two hanger flaps????? Apparently they had migrated to around $9300!!!! The moment we called for each set.???? I guess they are headed for the " multi millionaires" market only???
Good luck to them.
I hope you guys get your strut issue solved. I bet they will come up with a nice titanium shim for $1100 plus crating and shipping????
For what ever it's worth, it was NOT Gabe we spoke to.

PS. He refused to accept they were EVER $6600 until he looked back at sales and found that, the last set had indeed sold for that.............

[Steve Pierce]

I priced a set of experimental P-STOL flaps before Oshkosh and they were way more than $6200. Did you use this work sheet? https://www.airframesalaska.com/prod...pstol-exp..htm

[RaisedByWolves]

Kind of strange they act this way with a limited market, and if you piss people off it gets even smaller. I’d have to assume the pstol flaps orders are slowing way down.


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[TurboBeaver]

Steve,
I did not do anything; except call on the price, I saw them advertised for on their website. Then after we got off the phone with them: We came to realize they were about twice what we expected........ Anyway not a big deal; as that is about double, what we felt they were really worth for experimental flaps.
Certified ones
not so much; but experimental ones, don't think so.
Fly safe
E
Update:
I just used your link you posted for the experimental flaps
At $8600 and added em to my cart........BINGO!
They showed up in my cart for $6600 .....OMG. You got me, not sure if they would have gone thru or not, but that just happened!

[skywagon8a]

Steve,
...... Anyway not a big deal; as that is about double, what we felt they were really worth for experimental flaps.
Certified ones
not so much; but experimental ones, don't think so.
Fly safe
E

So experimental ones? Make your own.

[TurboBeaver]

I know Pete, but Pstol is an instant fix, and T Ford has done enough of them that it sounded like we might be able to get em on in a day, on an all Piper two hanger wing......... I really didn't want to launch into a major mod on my wings at this stage of my flying. After watching Toms airplane fly with them it was obvious they certainly slow his approach down to a speed that my 1050lb Cub would fall out of the sky at. Big difference.

[skywagon8a]

I know Pete, but Pstol is an instant fix, and T Ford has done enough of them that it sounded like we might be able to get em on in a day, on an all Piper two hanger wing......... I really didn't want to launch into a major mod on my wings at this stage of my flying. After watching Toms airplane fly with them it was obvious they certainly slow his approach down to a speed that my 1050lb Cub would fall out of the sky at. Big difference.

Make a winter project out of it Earle. Then just bolt them on. Perhaps you could take some weight out of them?

[RaisedByWolves]

I thought legend cub was making a set of flaps similar? Who is javron using on all of there builds


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[TurboBeaver]

Tom, I think Jay makes them up himself and I believe he told me, the extruder was over in Canada. His weigh the same as standard duty steel sealed struts, but are stronger than even the HD steel ones are for load strength. I think he said 2400lb vs 1800 for standard steel or Airframes Alumi um. So they are pretty stout! Very well could save you, if you get lots of snow where you live???
You may want to verify those numbers as that was couple years ago........
E

[Steve Pierce]

This rear strut/rear spar attach issue has now been rectified. Having recently run into it again I reached out to the owner of Airframes Alaska. I am told the "minor changes to the drawings were made/ submitted to the FAA" and that "This change will be done on all aluminum struts moving forward." Thanks to Airframes for making this change. I still have two set of aluminum struts to install but after that no need to make any more shims.

[skywagon8a]

Steve, I hope your gluing those spacers in place so that when the next person takes off the strut they don't get lost. Then someone will blame you for misfitting the strut in the first place.