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Thread: Removing header tanks?

  1. #1

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    Removing header tanks?

    We are installing the "Dakota Cub Fuel Valve Assembly" which has the possibility to use gasoline from "Both" tanks at the same time. The question is: with this kind of valve, if is always used in the "Both" position is it possible (and safe) to not install the originals header -front and rear- fuel tanks in the PA18? or it has nothing to do with one thing or another.

  2. #2
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Only safe way to remove both headers is to feed fuel from the front and rear of both tanks.
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  3. #3
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Yes that valve is part of the header less stc. Dakota and CubCrafters both have the stc.
    Part of the stc requires welding to the right front tank and running a line out the front, just like the left side. It also uses forward facing scoops on the fuel caps. Most use both all the time after putting the valve in.


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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Yes that valve is part of the header less stc. Dakota and CubCrafters both have the stc.
    Part of the stc requires welding to the right front tank and running a line out the front, just like the left side. It also uses forward facing scoops on the fuel caps. Most use both all the time after putting the valve in.


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    I’m gonna write an email to Dakota to ask. My airplane is gonna be Experimental so I don’t need the “papers”.


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  5. #5
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwm View Post
    I’m gonna write an email to Dakota to ask. My airplane is gonna be Experimental so I don’t need the “papers”.


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    That's fine as long as you have front and rear outlets on both tanks. Fuel flow doesn't care about paperwork.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwm View Post
    I’m gonna write an email to Dakota to ask. My airplane is gonna be Experimental so I don’t need the “papers”.


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    That is a good approach but if you copy their design it would be appropriate to pay for the privilege.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    That's fine as long as you have front and rear outlets on both tanks. Fuel flow doesn't care about paperwork.

    Web
    🤣 good point!



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    I already paid more than 600 dollars to buy and import the Dakota fuel valve to Argentina, for that reason I sent an email today asking about the possibility -if it exists- of not installing the header tanks to save some weight and space.

  9. #9
    KJC's Avatar
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    The headerless fuel stc is free from them if you buy tanks and a valve. The installation diagrams are available on their website.
    PA-12 N418BS
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJC View Post
    The headerless fuel stc is free from them if you buy tanks and a valve. The installation diagrams are available on their website.
    Thank you KJC


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  11. #11
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJC View Post
    The headerless fuel stc is free from them if you buy tanks and a valve. The installation diagrams are available on their website.
    You don't have to buy their tanks, just the fuel valve and gascolator.
    Steve Pierce

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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    You don't have to buy their tanks, just the fuel valve and gascolator.
    Hi Steve. I bought from them just the fuel valve assembly, the gascolator I got it from Aircraft Spruce. Is the Dakota cub gascolator different?


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  13. #13
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    From what I know, yes. I would not remove the header tanks unless I welded in the front right fuel line and change the front left one to 3/8" from 1/4". There is a reason the STCs require these modifications to the system.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    From what I know, yes. I would not remove the header tanks unless I welded in the front right fuel line and change the front left one to 3/8" from 1/4". There is a reason the STCs require these modifications to the system.
    Thanks Steve


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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    From what I know, yes. I would not remove the header tanks unless I welded in the front right fuel line and change the front left one to 3/8" from 1/4". There is a reason the STCs require these modifications to the system.
    This is the gascolator of Dakota Cub

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the gascolator we bought in Aircraft Spruce

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And this is the diagram of the Dakota Cub website

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Do you think if we add the front connectors in both wing tanks, and we interconnect the front connector with the rear (which is the original one) in both wings, can we get rid of the header tanks?


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  16. #16
    supercrow's Avatar
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    You need 2 rear fuel lines and 2 front ones running down the side of the windshield posts (separate lines). When the aircraft is nose high the rear lines feed the engine. When nose low as in a steep decent the front lines feed the engine.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercrow View Post
    You need 2 rear fuel lines and 2 front ones running down the side of the windshield posts (separate lines). When the aircraft is nose high the rear lines feed the engine. When nose low as in a steep decent the front lines feed the engine.
    And where the lines meet each other, in the fuel valve?


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  18. #18
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Yes. On left tank you would have feed from the front and back of that tank. Same with the right. Or all lines if both is selected. Then you need no header tanks.
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  19. #19
    supercrow's Avatar
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    You end up with 2 separate fuel outlets and 2 separate fuel lines on each tank. The Dakota plans will tell you how to put them into the valve for proper operation.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercrow View Post
    Yes. On left tank you would have feed from the front and back of that tank. Same with the right. Or all lines if both is selected. Then you need no header tanks.
    So is just a T connector in the “left” entrance of the valve (where the rear and front line will be connected together) and the same on the “right” side. Is that the whole modification to do?


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  21. #21
    supercrow's Avatar
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    It is a rather detailed setup and "must" be correct. Use the Dakota instructions for that part of the setup.
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercrow View Post
    It is a rather detailed setup and "must" be correct. Use the Dakota instructions for that part of the setup.
    I will. Thank you!


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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwm View Post
    I will. Thank you!


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    There is a very good reason piper engineers put header tanks in. My first cub had them and I loved them. My CC-180 doesn't and I wish it did.

    Some very smart people designed and built the Cub.

    Sandy
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticairalaska View Post
    There is a very good reason piper engineers put header tanks in. My first cub had them and I loved them. My CC-180 doesn't and I wish it did.

    Some very smart people designed and built the Cub.

    Sandy
    Hi Sandy, it's true what you say. The idea of removing the tanks was mainly as a way to simplify the fuel system (have fewer places where there might be a leak in the future) and mainly to save a bit of weight and space on the plane, but I am also quite skeptical of change something that was designed and works well over 50 years ago. So we did not decide what to do yet.


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