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Thread: Finding old records of a PA-12

  1. #1
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Finding old records of a PA-12

    I just bought a 12 from a friend which now has a N number from the 80s when it was re-imported into the USA from Canada.
    There is a letter in the files from the FAA saying it was originally N3306M when piper let her out of the factory. BUT I cant find anything listed form that N-number.
    I even have the Canadian books from back when she was CF-EGY. ( proof that some had even worse cursive handwriting skills than I do. ) But it only says Brought forward from American logs in 1972.
    Any ideas?

    I do not obtain any hits when I use N3306M in a search
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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I just bought a 12 from a friend which now has a N number from the 80s when it was re-imported into the USA from Canada.
    There is a letter in the files from the FAA saying it was originally N3306M when piper let her out of the factory. BUT I cant find anything listed form that N-number.
    I even have the Canadian books from back when she was CF-EGY. ( proof that some had even worse cursive handwriting skills than I do. ) But it only says Brought forward from American logs in 1972.
    Any ideas?

    I do not obtain any hits when I use N3306M in a search
    You can try to request data from AFS-750 based on the serial number of the airplane. It is unlikely that they have anything as they destroy the records after the airplane is exported. If you have the original E number (the serial number of the Export Certificate of Airworthiness when it left the US, they may have something under the E number, but more often than not they won't have it. At one point in time, the FAA had a fire in one of the records warehouses, so lots of records were lost in the fire as well.

    The airplane was not "imported" back to the US, it simply came home. Looks like 3306M is reserved as a temporary manufacturers number.

  3. #3
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I have the registration trail from the FAA, but not much other info.
    N3306M was exported into Canada July 14th 1972 and changed to CF-EGY
    In Feb 1985 it was sold to a guy in Eagle River AK and re-registered as N112PA in the USA
    I just can't find anything from 1947 until 1972 other than the bills of sale. No logs.
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    Float and Tailwheel CFI,
    Dragonfly Aero
    Homer, Alaska
    dragonfly@alaska.net

    http://www.floatplanealaska.com

    or http://www.dragonflyaero.net
    Thanks Poor Joe thanked for this post

  4. #4
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Ask Clyde

    www.cubdoctor.com

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  5. #5

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    Paul, since the serial number only brings up your current N#, any old records FAA has haven’t been digitized. Best bet is to email or send a letter to the FAA registry asking them to search on both the old N# and the serial number. Be sure to give them the date it was deregistered, that may give them a clue where to look.

    As for contacting Clyde, all he will have is the build sheet, but no other info.

    Good luck finding anything.

    David


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  6. #6

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    I'm having an annual/pre-purchase inspection done on a -12 that was repatriated from Canada a few years ago. Several years of logs were missing from when the plane was new and it only had logbooks from Canada on and I wasn't sure what the original N-number was or when it was exported to Canada. I contacted Clyde at cubdoctor.com and he kindly provided me with the original N-number after I gave him the serial number. Turns out that the plane was re-registered under its original N-number when it was brought back to the US. I used the following link https://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/ND/ and ordered the CD from the FAA which had everything on record from the original sales paperwork from Piper in 1946. The plane was exported to Canada in the early 60's and wasn't repatriated until 2017. Everything back to the original paperwork from Piper was included on the CD and, contrary to what was stated above, it wasn't destroyed when it was exported.

    Because your plane was registered under two different N-numbers I'm guessing maybe you might have to order a separate CD for each? Not sure if they are streamlined enough to merge the records based on serial number or not.

  7. #7
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Back in the day, manufacturers were issued blocks of tail numbers.
    Look up the s/n on either side of your PA12,
    you should be able to figure what yours originally was.
    I've done this to determine the original tail numbers on airplanes that have vanity tail numbers.
    FWIW I looked up 3307M, it's a PA12 s/n 12-2160.
    3306M and several below that are reserved by some agency (?) in Washington DC.
    Last edited by hotrod180; 04-30-2021 at 09:43 AM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  8. #8
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    What I have been able to find so far

    AIRCRAFT HISTORY
    PIPER PA-12 S/N 12-2158
    N-3306, CF-EGY & N-112PA

    Jan 19, 1947 Build completed by Piper at Lock Haven PA as N-3306M.
    Jan 23, 1947 First Weight and Balance 933 pounds at the factory.
    Jan 27, 1947 Sold to Deponti Aviation Minneapolis MN as N3306M ( Broker)
    April 19,1947 Sold To Hicks Flying Service Minneapolis MN as N3306M.
    Jan. 28,1948 Sold to England Motor Sales, Fort Smith AR as N3306M
    Mar. 25,1953 Sold to Omar Midyett, of E St Louis IL as N-3306M
    May 12,1953 Sold to Presgrove & Evans, Centralia IL as N3306M (suspect this was a lending agency)
    Aug 21 1953 Sold to Charles Davis and 2 others DIX IL. As N3306M
    Aug 04 1956 Sold to Melvin Knolhoff, Centralia IL. as N3306M
    Mar 17 1966 Sold to Jim's Flying Service Highland IL as N3306M
    Nov 01 1966 Sold to Leonard Leitner, Edwardsville IL as N3306M
    Apr 14 1970 Transferred reg to Matt Leitner, Lietners flying School
    Jul 05, 1972 Sold to Harold Routledge. Almonte Canada
    Jul 14, 1972 DE-REGISTERED IN USA.
    Jul 14, 1972 REGISTERED AS CF-EGY in CANADA
    Feb 15 1985 Sold to Jim Bickman, Eagle River Alaska.
    Feb..... 1985 RE-REGISTERED AS N-112PA in USA
    May 09 1989 Sold to John Warren of Anchorage AK as N112PA
    Mar 18 1991 Sold to Christopher Moore of Valdez AK as N112PA
    May 09 1995 Sold to Paul Buckel of Kotzebue AK as N112PA
    Apr. 24 2021 Sold to Alex and Inge Clark of Homer AK as N112PA
    Float and Tailwheel CFI,
    Dragonfly Aero
    Homer, Alaska
    dragonfly@alaska.net

    http://www.floatplanealaska.com

    or http://www.dragonflyaero.net
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  9. #9
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    "So far"?
    That seems pretty comprehensive to me.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  10. #10
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Retired Investigator. Inquiring minds....
    Float and Tailwheel CFI,
    Dragonfly Aero
    Homer, Alaska
    dragonfly@alaska.net

    http://www.floatplanealaska.com

    or http://www.dragonflyaero.net
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  11. #11
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    I don't have a dog in this fight. I have been waiting for a family to let go of my dad's PA12 for many years. Its supposed to be disassembled in a hangar in Hartford WI. My last contact with the registered owners wife was not for sale right now. I have asked a few locals to snoop around with no luck. I don't need the airplane but I would like to have it. I did some of my PP flight training and my solo x country in said airplane.(with Narco coffee grinder radio 1970)Interesting thread.

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