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Need help with bleeding Steve’s brakes

adamgrenda

Registered User
King Salmon, AK
Pa-18 on 35s with Steve’s brakes.

200’ landings and keeping the tail up with the brakes was not an issue. Left calipers on and went to skis and never cracked a brake line. Went back to wheels and brakes are solid but stopping is inconsistent. I can’t keep the tail up with the brakes. The brakes won’t lock up a tire on taxi when I used to be able to do that easily. Also brakes make a moaning/squealing sound similar to being wet but they do this consistently.

I’ve bled the brakes accordingly to Steve’s direction. I’ve open the bleed screw on the caliper and drained all fluid that I could out of the caliper and started over, filling from the bottom. I know there is something going on and I can’t figure it out. Pads in good shape and calipers worked fine prior to going to skis.

I’m guessing there is air somewhere may try lifting to tail to bleed. Also not sure how to get all brake fluid out of the master cylinder. On 35 it rides nose high so I can’t get it all out.

Any help?

Thanks
 
How is the pedal feel? Is it firm but you just don't have stopping power or is the pedal mushy and using a lot of pedal travel to get any braking?

Might not be a bleed issue, might have contaminated brake pads if the pedal is fairly firm.
 
How is the pedal feel? Is it firm but you just don't have stopping power or is the pedal mushy and using a lot of pedal travel to get any braking?

Might not be a bleed issue, might have contaminated brake pads if the pedal is fairly firm.


Pedal is hard and not much travel but no stopping power. If contained pad or rotor what’s the remedy to fix?
 
It sounds as though the large pins which hold the brake housing to the adapter may be sticking. When this happens the housing doesn't move preventing both brake pads from clamping the disc. No amount of bleeding solves this issue.
 
It sounds as though the large pins which hold the brake housing to the adapter may be sticking. When this happens the housing doesn't move preventing both brake pads from clamping the disc. No amount of bleeding solves this issue.
Yup. Especially after being on skis this winter if not relubed.
 
Take the calipers off with brakes lines still attached and clean the pins on the caliper and the bushings in the torque plates and lubricate with silicone spray. It will allow the caliper to float but will not attract dirt and dust.
 
I’ve cleaned and checked and lubed the pins when I put the wheels back on. I’ll pull the caliper off and clean the pads and rotors w brake clean and check the pins again.
 
On the pads I use 400 grit to expose fresh surface and then brake clean them since you very possibly have a glazed layer on the pads. The disc you can get away with just brake clean on a rag to clean off any contamination but it's not a bad idea to scotch brite them if they have some rust from sitting.
 
On the pads I use 400 grit to expose fresh surface and then brake clean them since you very possibly have a glazed layer on the pads. The disc you can get away with just brake clean on a rag to clean off any contamination but it's not a bad idea to scotch brite them if they have some rust from sitting.


yup I’ll try all that today too. What is the usual culprit of a contaminated pad? I don’t remember getting those dirty but between grease and swapping skis and wheels it very easily could of got some junk in there to foul things up.
 
It's usually brake fluid from leaking brake pucks but since you didn't remove your brakes when you went on skis it could simply be some crud in the snow that got on the brakes. Could have just been taxiing through some slushy snow at the airport that had some oil on it or something and got it on the brakes. Oil and gas float on top of water so during breakup a lot of crap that's on the pavement under the snow pack can float to the top when it gets slushy.

Best thing to do is remove your calipers when you go on skis and cap the lines to prevent pad contamination or even worse corrosion in your brake calipers.
 
It's usually brake fluid from leaking brake pucks but since you didn't remove your brakes when you went on skis it could simply be some crud in the snow that got on the brakes. Could have just been taxiing through some slushy snow at the airport that had some oil on it or something and got it on the brakes. Oil and gas float on top of water so during breakup a lot of crap that's on the pavement under the snow pack can float to the top when it gets slushy.

Best thing to do is remove your calipers when you go on skis and cap the lines to prevent pad contamination or even worse corrosion in your brake calipers.


Yup makes sense. I tried that with my NR and worked well. I had a hard time getting every last air bubble out of the Steve’s brakes so I left them on this year. I’ll let you know how today turns out. Noted for future.
 
Make sure you bleed all the air out of the top bleed port on the cylinders... the way our cylinders are designed it can trap air there fairly easy hence the reason we put the bleeders there... might take a few tries to get it all out... I usually pump up the cylinder by hand and then open that valve with a rag on top of it to force any trapped air out, kind of like bleeding car brakes... Also, if your brake lines are at the bottom of your calipers at the wheel and bleeders on the top make sure you do not have any trapped air there by the same method... all other tips for the caliper pins and pads mentioned need to be checked also..

Brian


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Thanks Brian. I’ve bled that way and got all air out. What is the best way to start over so to speak and get all fluid out? Open the bleeder on the bottom and had the kid pump the brakes but still couldn’t get all fluid out it seemed.

despite all this pedal moves 1/8” and then gets rock hard and I can’t get more air out at the caliper (brake line on top) or out of the bleeder so I’m guessing it’s the pads.
 
4ACB9BAF-B814-4A78-9940-50623D93B45C.jpg


The pads had a slight glaze to them so I cleaned them with sandpaper and brake clean. Rotors look good cleaned it with scotchbrite and brake clean. The piston on the caliper had some grease gunk on them. Is this an indication of leaking o rings. I’ve never had any fluid leaks but have never inspected this part of the brake before this.

had the wife use her feet to get more pressure and got a few small as in very small air pockets out of each brake. They are back to being solid now. Free floating in the pins and lubed there.

I’ll keep an eye on the caliper for leaks. Any ideas?8D4554C8-DFC9-4D49-8FA6-338E4C15669A.jpg
 

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I always look at the calipers for leaks at annual. If the o'rings leak there will be a sticky wet substance at the lowest point on the caliper. New o'rings usually fix the issue unless there is pitting in the cylinder bore of the caliper.
 
I had an experience of the brake o-rings leaking when the pads got kind of thin.
The previous owner warned me of this, and told me to just buy new pads when it happened.
I replaced them once, honed the caliper bores while I was at it.
The next time around, I got the bright idea to measure the discs--bingo!
They were below minimum thickness.
I replaced the discs & now the o-rings don't ever leak.
Another unexpected benefit is that the pads seem to last much longer with the nice new smooth discs.

FWIW I do all my filling & bleeding from the caliper end with a little oiler can from Napa.
Works great.
 
View attachment 55407


The pads had a slight glaze to them so I cleaned them with sandpaper and brake clean. Rotors look good cleaned it with scotchbrite and brake clean. The piston on the caliper had some grease gunk on them. Is this an indication of leaking o rings. I’ve never had any fluid leaks but have never inspected this part of the brake before this.

had the wife use her feet to get more pressure and got a few small as in very small air pockets out of each brake. They are back to being solid now. Free floating in the pins and lubed there.

I’ll keep an eye on the caliper for leaks. Any ideas?View attachment 55408

Based off that first picture alone I would take those apart and check the condition of the O-Rings and bore of the calipers. Clean them up real good, replace O-Rings, and then re-bleed the system.

Brian.
 
I agree with Brian. Mind had that yellowish scum on them from brake fluid leaking before I rebuilt them. O-rings are cheap. MS28775-222 quantity 2 per caliper. Check the bores for scoring and sand pits/scratches out with 400 grit and final polish with grey scotch brite.
 
I assume to bleed the brakes on a super cub you pump fluid in from the bottom do I have that correct?
the brake bleeder I bought sucks fluid. Where do I get a small hand pump with reservoir for fluid?
or might I just put a tube from the lower bleeder screw into a bottle of brake fluid & suck up from the top with the bleeder system I bought. What’s the best way?
 
I assume to bleed the brakes on a super cub you pump fluid in from the bottom do I have that correct?
the brake bleeder I bought sucks fluid. Where do I get a small hand pump with reservoir for fluid?
or might I just put a tube from the lower bleeder screw into a bottle of brake fluid & suck up from the top with the bleeder system I bought. What’s the best way?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/hydraulicBleedertank.php?clickkey=30440

I’ll even give you a link to the correct fluid.
How’s that saying go, if your not sure how to do something get someone who does?

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/hydfluid5606qt.php?clickkey=92764


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
..... Where do I get a small hand pump with reservoir for fluid?.....

I use a squeeze type oiler can from Napa or the local hardware store.
With some clear hose of the appropriate size from the same source.
Works great.

A while back, I helped (attempted to help) a friend of mine bleed his brakes,
he was using some sort of air powered bleeder more appropriate to a 737 than his C210.
I told him he was over-gunned & offered to go get my little oiler can, but he wasn't having any of it.
He finally got them bled but it was quite an ordeal.
It didn't help that he was trying to use a 10 or 12" crescent wrench on the little bleeder fitting,
instead of a 1/4" box end wrench.:roll:
 
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