Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Opinions on LED Landing Lights, Flashing, TSO, non-TSO, Radio Noise

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    155
    Post Thanks / Like

    Opinions on LED Landing Lights, Flashing, TSO, non-TSO, Radio Noise

    Rewiring the Cub (certified) and now into the planning of the landing lights. My mission is this; I rarely fly at night and never to public use airports. All floats and skis. My primary use of landing lights is visibility in flight. My plan was installing a light(s) in the right wing (exact copy of the Pa-18 left wing duel light) and use a Pulselight to sequence flash a light in each wing. I could install two lights (landing and taxi) in each wing using one in each wing as sequence flashers and the others as landing lights if I was to ever need them.
    Prices for some of the TSO'd, PMA's, STC'd etc. LED landing lights are scary high. I have read these FAA approvals are not required for "light bulbs". Not sure if there is any documentation from the FAA that the install of non-approved LED lights is allowed for direct replacement. I know of many non-approved LED landing lights flying around out there and the only complaint I've heard is radio noise. Anyone know if the approved lights are better with radio noise and/or recommendations on filtering the noise for the non-approved ones? Are these prices I'm seeing for "light bulbs" realistic?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    anchorage, alaska
    Posts
    148
    Post Thanks / Like
    I use non-certified led’s on my planes. The silly price of certified is unreal. No radio noise, no problems. There are other options for certified, like the salvage yard. A few years ago when I was pricing led’s, I found a supplier that would sell a 4509 size for $5. Minimum order was for 50. I went a different route. Be careful what you buy if you go uncertified.

  3. #3
    aeroaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Boise ID area
    Posts
    176
    Post Thanks / Like
    Non-certified (Whelen), no radio noise, but I'm experimental (the plane).

    Not sure how one could get radio noise out a an LED since the power draw is so low. I can't even tell via amp's output when they are on.
    Likes Airguide liked this post

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    960
    Post Thanks / Like
    Landing lights are not required equipment. There is no TSO for landing lights, and the typical 4509 bulbs are just commercial bulbs any how. I donít see any reason for not using any PAR 36 bulb. Now once a bulb is installed, then you still need to do appropriate EMI tests to be sure you donít have interference.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    You definitely can get terrible radio noise from LED lights. It comes from the cheap power supplies. Trust me, I know from experience. I just got this fixed a few months on my experimental. I used a kit sold for the RV guys, made my own bracket, even installed their super simple wig wag. Absolutely no noise. Didn’t even had to add a switch to activate the wig wag.

  6. #6
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    3,887
    Post Thanks / Like
    No 'certification' requirements as per CAR 3. If you want to flash them, I suggest the MaxPulse controller. Expensive but very small and works up to approximately 12 amps. Remember that if you flash lights mounted close together they should flash on/off together as from a distance, your eye won't see the pulsing if they flash alternating. Alternating works well if the lights are mounted on opposite wings.
    If you buy a cheap light and it makes noise, it was cheap and should be easy to replace with another model. Rarely had TSO'd LEDs make noise.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  7. #7
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northern Maine
    Posts
    886
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have flashing leds on my Cub, my radio has a ANL switch
    on it, but even with limiter on the noise from leds comes right over it. My Mags don't have filters but I have no problem with mag noise, but my LEDS are another story,
    VERY brite, 9 quick snaps then they rest for sec, then 9 more. Poor ground on radio?

  8. #8
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    20,847
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by aeroaddict View Post

    Not sure how one could get radio noise out a an LED since the power draw is so low. I can't even tell via amp's output when they are on.
    LEDs are 5 volt and the power supply as posted can be the noise culprit.

    I have run these for a while and installed one spot and one flood. All my wing wiring is original 1972. I run them when I want to be seen and the only time I get any noise is when I use the monitor frequency feature on my Trig TY91 radio. Turn lights off the slight click goes away or the same if I quit monitoring the second frequency.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  9. #9
    aeroaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Boise ID area
    Posts
    176
    Post Thanks / Like
    I guess I'm missing something here, my landing light and Nav/Strobe are run thru a breaker switch and no power box.

  10. #10
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    20,847
    Post Thanks / Like
    The power adapter is built into the light, some are cheap, some better quality and switching power from 12 volts to 5 volts and switching that power on and off rapidly.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  11. #11
    aeroaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Boise ID area
    Posts
    176
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks Steve.

  12. #12
    Cub Builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Central AR
    Posts
    695
    Post Thanks / Like
    I've used PAR 36 LED landing lights in 2 of my planes. No issues at all. Also installed LED tip and tail lights in both of my current planes. I used the same LED tail light in both planes. In the 14V plane, it works fine and is noise free. In the plane with the 28V system, I had to swap the LED tail light back out for incandescent due to radio noise. It's kind of a trial and error thing, but I've only had one issue out of a significant number of LED lights and landing lights I've used.

    -Cub Builder

  13. #13
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    3,887
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Cub Builder View Post
    I've used PAR 36 LED landing lights in 2 of my planes. No issues at all. Also installed LED tip and tail lights in both of my current planes. I used the same LED tail light in both planes. In the 14V plane, it works fine and is noise free. In the plane with the 28V system, I had to swap the LED tail light back out for incandescent due to radio noise. It's kind of a trial and error thing, but I've only had one issue out of a significant number of LED lights and landing lights I've used.

    -Cub Builder
    What model tail light was that?

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  14. #14
    Cub Builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Central AR
    Posts
    695
    Post Thanks / Like
    It was an inexpensive W2.1x9.5d (Glass Wedge) base LED purchased through SuperBrightLEDs.com. Model# was 921-WHP10. Before you say it's cheap and I shouldn't expect it to be good, I had also purchased some really nice PAR36 landing lights from the same sight that worked really well. I was OK with it not working as it didn't cost much. The internal power on it seemed to be good with the 14V system, but unhappy on the 28V system even though it was rated for 10 - 30 V.

    -Cub Builder

  15. #15

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    960
    Post Thanks / Like
    Iíd like to point out that while there is no TSO for landing lights, there is a TSO for navigation lights, and each navigation light model has as part of the TSO, the specific bulb that is approved as part of the TSO. The bulb itself may not be a TSO item, but part of the overall TSO approval, so unless the LED bulb is PMAd for the specific nav light assembly, using it would technically be a violation.

    That said, my tail nav light will have an LED bulb (1157 replacement with the bright side connected to the landing light flasher) and Iíll have Uavionix SkyBeacon on one wing (STC), and SkySensor (field approval) on the other. The tail light and Sky Sensor arenít TSO, but they are on a field approval.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Thanks FrankO thanked for this post

  16. #16
    Cub Builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Central AR
    Posts
    695
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    I’d like to point out that while there is no TSO for landing lights, there is a TSO for navigation lights, and each navigation light model has as part of the TSO, the specific bulb that is approved as part of the TSO. The bulb itself may not be a TSO item, but part of the overall TSO approval, so unless the LED bulb is PMAd for the specific nav light assembly, using it would technically be a violation.

    That said, my tail nav light will have an LED bulb (1157 replacement with the bright side connected to the landing light flasher) and I’ll have Uavionix SkyBeacon on one wing (STC), and SkySensor (field approval) on the other. The tail light and Sky Sensor aren’t TSO, but they are on a field approval.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Both of my planes are Experimental, so I Experiment. I care about function; not so much for pricey paperwork or costly approvals.

    -Cub Builder

  17. #17

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    960
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Cub Builder View Post
    Both of my planes are Experimental, so I Experiment. I care about function; not so much for pricey paperwork or costly approvals.

    -Cub Builder
    I hear you with that, but . . . Your op limits for night say you need equipment that meets 91.205 (c). 91.205 (c)(2) says ďapproved position lightsĒ.

    As a DAR, Iíve overlooked this, but have been sure to point it out to the owner as 91 is an operating rule, and if the owner chooses to violate it, itís not my problem.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    JimParker256's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Farmersville, TX
    Posts
    475
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    I hear you with that, but . . . Your op limits for night say you need equipment that meets 91.205 (c). 91.205 (c)(2) says “approved position lights”.

    As a DAR, I’ve overlooked this, but have been sure to point it out to the owner as 91 is an operating rule, and if the owner chooses to violate it, it’s not my problem.
    My local DAR told me the same thing... I elected to keep the "traditional" strobes that came on my airplane instead of replacing them with LED position lights that would have been "non-approved."

    I did, however, elect to replace the "WalMart special" incandescent bulb landing light with an excellent LED "light cluster" from an off-road supplier. But it was at least partially because I could not find the right size "flashlight bulb" to replace the burned out bulb in the original one... But mostly because the old "landing light" worked about as well as holding a candle out the window... Visible from at maybe 10 feet away in the daytime! The LED system, by comparison, is flame thrower, and I can leave it on all the time without worrying about the drain on the electrical system.
    Jim Parker
    2007 Rans S-6ES

Similar Threads

  1. Red, whit ena dlbue flashing lights
    By The Kid in forum Modifications
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-20-2019, 05:12 AM
  2. Radio noise
    By Eddie Foy in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-10-2015, 12:55 PM
  3. Radio noise, radio needed
    By teeweed in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-06-2005, 09:03 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •