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Thread: Sensenich Ground Adjustable Prop

  1. #41
    skysigns's Avatar
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    thank you Steve looking forward to getting mine

  2. #42

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    Just finished up my Recurrent DER training today and had a class on the new Part 23 regulations. Of note is that the Sensenich STC SP04490AT was issued under these new regulations. For all you guys that are thinking of using this STC, read the limitation section carefully if you have more than 2 seats in your Cub! The STC reclassifies the PA-18-150 (specific serial numbers as modified with 180HP engines) as a Class 1 low speed aircraft as defined in 14 CFR 23.2005. A Class1 aircraft is one with a maximum seating configuration of 0-1 passengers. If your airplane has more than 1 passenger seat, this STC is not applicable to your aircraft. Under 23.2400 paragraph (b), only Class 1 Low Speed aircraft can have the engine and propeller certified as part of the airframe (the approach Sensenich used for this STC). Just figured I'd throw this out there before someone paid $7k for a prop they can't use legally.

    A lot of guys were asking about the possibility of putting this prop on Short Wing Pipers. Until Sensenich goes for a TC on the prop rather than just a PMA, all the short wing Pipers with more than 1 passenger seat are out of luck. Maybe some pressure needs to be put on Sensenich to actually go for a TC rather than just PMA. I know lots of folks that would but these props if they were legal to install.
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  3. #43
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Just finished up my Recurrent DER training today and had a class on the new Part 23 regulations. Of note is that the Sensenich STC SP04490AT was issued under these new regulations. For all you guys that are thinking of using this STC, read the limitation section carefully if you have more than 2 seats in your Cub! The STC reclassifies the PA-18-150 (specific serial numbers as modified with 180HP engines) as a Class 1 low speed aircraft as defined in 14 CFR 23.2005. A Class1 aircraft is one with a maximum seating configuration of 0-1 passengers. If your airplane has more than 1 passenger seat, this STC is not applicable to your aircraft. Under 23.2400 paragraph (b), only Class 1 Low Speed aircraft can have the engine and propeller certified as part of the airframe (the approach Sensenich used for this STC). Just figured I'd throw this out there before someone paid $7k for a prop they can't use legally.

    A lot of guys were asking about the possibility of putting this prop on Short Wing Pipers. Until Sensenich goes for a TC on the prop rather than just a PMA, all the short wing Pipers with more than 1 passenger seat are out of luck. Maybe some pressure needs to be put on Sensenich to actually go for a TC rather than just PMA. I know lots of folks that would but these props if they were legal to install.
    Interesting! The devil is in the details. Thank you.
    N1PA
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  4. #44

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    That is interesting. I thought they were going for an STC on 12s too. Would the rear seat in a 12 be considered 2 passenger seats or just one?

    Is there any news on the O-320 18 STC?
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  5. #45
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    This is the STC SP04490AT for installing the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on certain PA-18-150s which have been modified to use the Lycoming 180 hp 0-360 or IO-360. https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/9053fb048f04e38f862586b8004a6f0c/$FILE/SP04490AT.pdf

    In reading the limitations, if the -18 had previously been modified for a third seat I would make a note on the 337 and in the log book that the third seat approval was no longer applicable while this propeller was installed.

    If an approval were to be pursued for a suitable PA-12, it would be simple enough to limit the passenger seat to just one passenger.
    N1PA
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  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This is the STC SP04490AT for installing the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on certain PA-18-150s which have been modified to use the Lycoming 180 hp 0-360 or IO-360. https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/9053fb048f04e38f862586b8004a6f0c/$FILE/SP04490AT.pdf

    In reading the limitations, if the -18 had previously been modified for a third seat I would make a note on the 337 and in the log book that the third seat approval was no longer applicable while this propeller was installed.
    Agreed, remove the 3rd seat STC. How about the 4 place wide fuselage, no way around that that I can see.


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  7. #47

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    Sensenich Ground Adjustable Prop

    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    This is the STC SP04490AT for installing the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on certain PA-18-150s which have been modified to use the Lycoming 180 hp 0-360 or IO-360. https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/9053fb048f04e38f862586b8004a6f0c/$FILE/SP04490AT.pdf

    In reading the limitations, if the -18 had previously been modified for a third seat I would make a note on the 337 and in the log book that the third seat approval was no longer applicable while this propeller was installed.

    If an approval were to be pursued for a suitable PA-12, it would be simple enough to limit the passenger seat to just one passenger.
    Donít think that would work on the PA-12, the TCDS clearly identifies it as a 3 place airplane for both land plane and sea plane.


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  8. #48
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Agreed, remove the 3rd seat STC. How about the 4 place wide fuselage, no way around that that I can see.
    Same procedure, place a two seat limitation on the airplane. Remove the back seat.
    N1PA

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Don’t think that would work on the PA-12, the TCDS clearly identifies it as a 3 place airplane for both land plane and sea plane.
    Sure, unless otherwise modified. This is an STC. There isn't anything that says an STC can not mandate the removal of some other item.
    N1PA

  10. #50

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    I think to comply, you would need to put on the 337 that the 3rd seat STC was removed, it isnít how many seats are installed, it is how many are certified. For the PA-12, you could do an STC to make it a 2 place airplane, then do the STC to install the prop.


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  11. #51
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Why would you need to do two separate STCs? Couldn't the propeller STC state that the airplane was limited to two persons?
    N1PA

  12. #52

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    It could.


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  13. #53

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    In a -18 the STC is for a 3rd seat but most just use it for the increased baggage capacity and rarely if ever does anyone sit back there, could you remove the "seat" but keep the 180 pound capacity and still be ok with the prop STC?

  14. #54

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    I havenít seen the STC so I canít comment. I think Iíd go back to the STC holder and see if they can do an option on the STC to have a third seat, OR a 180 lb baggage, but you canít have both configurations approved. This would be best to discuss with the certifying Aircraft Certification Office for both the third seat STC and the prop STC.


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  15. #55
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Legally as far as I know the "3rd seat" stc's are all primarily a 180lb baggage area stc. This seems like one of those "don't ask don't tell" grey areas in legality.
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  16. #56
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    checking to see if prop can be installed on a 1953 pa18A S/N 2495 with CC 180 hp stc installed

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by skysigns View Post
    checking to see if prop can be installed on a 1953 pa18A S/N 2495 with CC 180 hp stc installed
    That would take a Field Approval or a model change as the 1953 PA-18A was a PA-18A-135. I'm currently dealing with the same issue for a 1953 PA-18A-135 and the instal of the WipAir 2000 lb. gross weight increase. That STC is also specific to a PA-18-150. Whats interesting about the Sencsenich STC is it does not include PA-18A-150's or PA-18S-150 models. This should backlog the FAA field approval process about 3 years.

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