Sensenich Ground Adjustable Prop

[Farmboy]

Hey if you need a FAA pilot, I know a girl. FAA Inspector, flys the sh*T out of anything, and owns a J3, SuperCub, and a Tripacer. Before meeting her husband Jake I think they both had their own stardusters. But then Jake took an Ohio bush pilot sticker to the South Pole, so he’s got that going for him.

Just don’t ask them to fly in the same airplane. Did I get it all right Rick?


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[Utah-Jay]

Steve, any updates?

My 82” is ordered and should ship end of March, but I am looking forward to hearing about performance

[OLDCROWE]

Steve, any updates?

My 82” is ordered and should ship end of March, but I am looking forward to hearing about performance

My SC is one of the two being used for the O-320 with mine representing 160hp testing and they have finished with it and it's is returning home this week but there is still more testing to be completed which is presently delayed but hopefully to resume in short order.

[cubdriver2]

That Sensenich is one tough prop. Know a guy who chewed some frozen ground with one. Leading edge stayed in place and captured the 5" composite broken tips. Cordless 4.5" cutoff wheel made a clean cut and he flew the 100 miles back home.

Glenn

[CamTom12]

I want one. Do they want any flight testing on a Pacer-representative airplane? 160hp

[Utah-Jay]

My SC is one of the two being used for the O-320 with mine representing 160hp testing and they have finished with it and it's is returning home this week but there is still more testing to be completed which is presently delayed but hopefully to resume in short order.

Mine is going on a 195hp Bearhawk Companion

[Farmboy]

I want one. Do they want any flight testing on a Pacer-representative airplane? 160hp

You work for the government. If asked you could tell them you figured it was approved via the fast track.
But you might be better off to tell them it’s under government contract and their requirements are superseded. 🤣


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[supercrow]

I have been flying the whirlwind and Sensenich for several yrs now and don't see myself going back to anything else. I flew the Borer for over 40 yrs and it was a great prop. These are better.

[Steve Pierce]

The FAA testing is to prove equal to or better than the 1A175 McCauley prop. Even with a 30 hour tailwheel pilot with only a few hours of Super Cub time the data shows equal to or better than but honestly the data is all over the place because of the inconsistency of the pilot. If I had as little Cub time as him I would be inconsistence as well. I can tell you that from my testing it gets off quicker, climbs better, cruises faster, lighter and way better on sand and gravel than the 1A175 McCauley.

[BC12D-4-85]

Why is the FAA directly involved and not some qualified designee?

Gary

[OLDCROWE]

Why is the FAA directly involved and not some qualified designee?

Gary

I understand that Testing and Certification became much more difficult post the 737 Max-8 fun.

[skywagon8a]

Why is the FAA directly involved and not some qualified designee?

Gary

For one ... the designee costs money. The FAA does it for no cost to the applicant.

[dgapilot]

For one ... the designee costs money. The FAA does it for no cost to the applicant.

Assuming you can get them to do it. More often than not, they will tell you if you want to do something (STC project) you have to use designees.

[frequent_flyer]

For one ... the designee costs money.

Well not necessarily. The last certification program with which I was involved was with FedEx. They provided their own designee. They were paying his salary whether he flew that cert program or not.

You'd think a propeller manufacturer would have qualified designees or are we tail wheel pilots such a rare breed.

[john schwamm]

These days FAA guys are hardly working, most from home and one knows how much time they put in at work.
I have been tracking another STC, all approved thru departments but needs the paperwork signed off, been a month now and not moved.

[skywagon8a]

Well not necessarily. The last certification program with which I was involved was with FedEx. They provided their own designee. They were paying his salary whether he flew that cert program or not.

You'd think a propeller manufacturer would have qualified designees or are we tail wheel pilots such a rare breed.

A small company like Sensenich may have their own engineering designee, but it's highly unlikely they would have a test pilot designee on their payroll.

[BC12D-4-85]

My friend Eddie will have one soon for his EXP PA-18. He's run a Borer, Catto, stock Cub Sen on the 160. It'll be a fun test as he knows how the rest performed.

Gary

[flynlow]

No, FAA test pilot went off the side of the runway with one of the test airplanes. One day I will write a book.

Will all supercubs be grounded until its determined the cause of the off runway excursion?

[pfm]

This was a blank form if the fellow above would like to use it while playing with the various pitches on the prop. I am on my work computer and don't have the ones that we filled out on hand.

My point to this is to give a base line for what you had, then do some form of regimented testing to see the actual results, I think or I feel is not a very good way to test your new prop etc. Record the numbers and see what you actually get.

I find this really useful for then I want to change pitches for the mission. If I have some CC I want to do and am not worried about maximum TO performance, I can look at my chart and know exactly what pin to use and what performance I can count on getting. Once at my destination I can swap to take off pitch and know exactly what to expect as well. Changing pitch take around 5-8 minutes if you have a spinner on.

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[DJ]

Does the listed weight of the O-360 82" version include the bolts?

[Steve Pierce]

Just weighed the one I am about to install, 19.625 lbs

[Steve Pierce]

That Sensenich is one tough prop. Know a guy who chewed some frozen ground with one. Leading edge stayed in place and captured the 5" composite broken tips. Cordless 4.5" cutoff wheel made a clean cut and he flew the 100 miles back home.

Glenn

We were testing a 78" version which is the set of blades that got damaged. Sensenich just band sawed the ends and sanded them smooth. Carbon fiber through out, carbon spar. Mo wood top shrink or expand.

[DJ]

That is the same as my 86/38 Catto with all the hardware.

Sorry the weight was in Kilos.

Works out to 19.8 with that skull cap bracket.

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[Steve Pierce]

Some mesquite trees.

[BC12D-4-85]

Was the engine ok after that incident? That's a tough prop good for bush repairs to get home

Gary

[Farmboy]

Been done a bunch.
Really good props.


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[cubscout]

But Steve, the important thing is how did the mesquite fare?

Thanks. cubscout

[Utah-Jay]

#mesquitelivesmatter

[DJ]

How would a Borer have done? How much wood did it cut through?

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[RaisedByWolves]

How would a Borer have done? How much wood did it cut through?

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If its anything like the nickel leading edge on a catto, the borer wouldn't have standed a chance. the nickel leading edge holds up to gravel bars much much better than the borer

[Steve Pierce]

No damage found to the engine via prop strike inspection.

[Supercubrancher]

So what is the difference between the certified and experimental prop, besides the sticker that says FAA approved?

[Steve Pierce]

Paperwork

[supercrow]

So what is the difference between the certified and experimental prop, besides the sticker that says FAA approved?

Yup. That would be the difference. And the props already in the field will always be exp. and the approved will be twice as much money. One more of the reasons I fly an exp.

[MEM-PA12]

Paperwork

Steve, do you know if approval is being pursued for installation on a 150 hp PA-12 for this ground adjustable prop or only PA-18 at this time? Thanks

[Steve Pierce]

Steve, do you know if approval is being pursued for installation on a 150 hp PA-12 for this ground adjustable prop or only PA-18 at this time? Thanks

PA18 with 150 and 160 hp O-320. The prop will then be Type Certified which will make it easier for others to get STCs for other aircraft. There have been DER approvals on O-360 powered Cessnas based on the data from the PA18 180 hp STC.

[dgapilot]

PA18 with 150 and 160 hp O-320. The prop will then be Type Certified which will make it easier for others to get STCs for other aircraft. There have been DER approvals on O-360 powered Cessnas based on the data from the PA18 180 hp STC.

I sure wouldn’t want to be the DER that approved that. The PA-18 STC is an airframe STC based on the “new” Part 23. The approval is based on the airplane being a “Level 1” airplane, defined as having 0 to 1 passenger seats. The engineering rigor for a Level 1 is much less than for a higher level. FAA changed the certification rules based on “risk to the public”, so less seats is less risk. That’s part of the reason Sensenich changed gears and is now working on getting a TC for the prop. That opens up the availability to aircraft with more than 2 seats.


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[akavidflyer]

Sensinich changed up because anything government related is a pain in the ass and next to impossible to deal with as they keep moving the target. Kind of like the full lotus float testing. Drops at gross, double gross then triple gross didn't result in airframe failure as the floats absorbed the impact. Without a "known failure mechanism" they refused to certify the installation. Makes a lot of sense to essentially remove the safety of airbags from being used in the certified world, yet there are so many examples flying safely in the "experimental" world.

[Steve Pierce]

I sure wouldn’t want to be the DER that approved that. The PA-18 STC is an airframe STC based on the “new” Part 23. The approval is based on the airplane being a “Level 1” airplane, defined as having 0 to 1 passenger seats. The engineering rigor for a Level 1 is much less than for a higher level. FAA changed the certification rules based on “risk to the public”, so less seats is less risk. That’s part of the reason Sensenich changed gears and is now working on getting a TC for the prop. That opens up the availability to aircraft with more than 2 seats.


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The flight test engineer that was here was on the committee that wrote that. He interpreted it differently than it was sold to us. He is right at home with the FAA.

[BritishCubBloke]

Do we have any idea when the 320 STC will be completed?