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Sensenich Ground Adjustable Prop

skywagon8a said:
That full throttle speed at 2700 rpm of 105 mph seems slow to me. Are you on 35" tires? Do you have slats?
My 180 hp does 120 mph at 2700 rpm..... on floats. The prop is the Whirlwind 200G.
Click to expand...
Anything over 86mph seems fast to me Pete!
 
skywagon8a said:
That full throttle speed at 2700 rpm of 105 mph seems slow to me. Are you on 35" tires? Do you have slats?
My 180 hp does 120 mph at 2700 rpm..... on floats. The prop is the Whirlwind 200G.
Click to expand...

floats seem to be less drag than 31s and 35s. I lost more cruise and climb on 31s than I did on floats as well.

I don't have copies of the other planes that were tested, but they are all in the general ball park and all have shown big improvements in cruise as well, from 150 hp cubs to 200+ hp. Some of the cubs tested were on 31s, some were on 35s.

The big improvement that is not shown is the throttle response, no spool up or lag, its instant and makes it really easy to nail landings when your dragging it in. I suspect any CF or composite prop will be this way as you have so much less weight and rotating mass.

I think the biggest difference in the WW vs Sensenich props is the easy of changing pitch. I would love to do a head to head same day comparison of the two props on the same plane and see actual hard performance numbers and not just "I think" or "I feel".
 
Those speeds on the Borer seem extremely slow even if expressed in knots. I run a cut down 81/43 Borer on a 160 hp modified J5, which feels like really a climb prop rather than cruise and I get 105-110 mph or around 95knots at 2450-2500 albeit with 8.50 tires. The figure in the table of 79 at 2400 with a coarser prop and bags more power must point to some outrageous drag.


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Brandsman said:
Those speeds on the Borer seem extremely slow even if expressed in knots. I run a cut down 81/43 Borer on a 160 hp modified J5, which feels like really a climb prop rather than cruise and I get 105-110 mph or around 95knots at 2450-2500 albeit with 8.50 tires. The figure in the table of 79 at 2400 with a coarser prop and bags more power must point to some outrageous drag.


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Click to expand...

82/43 on a 160hp PA-18 rigged PERFECT plus the Thrust Line mod and I get 92 mph at 2400rpm. Same everything else and I get 102 with my 74/56 Cruise Prop. Gave up on Cato years ago and can't wait for the adjustable, and yes I've got one reserved.
 
OLDCROWE said:
82/43 on a 160hp PA-18 rigged PERFECT plus the Thrust Line mod and I get 92 mph at 2400rpm. Same everything else and I get 102 with my 74/56 Cruise Prop. Gave up on Cato years ago and can't wait for the adjustable, and yes I've got one reserved.
Click to expand...

This sounds the same as my 52 supercub with 150 hp
115 mph at 2700


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I just checked on my prop order which at the time I was given 5-7 weeks to ship. I was just told this morning it would take another 3 weeks. So my guess is it a 10+ week from order to shipping. I did get the spinner and had it painted and ready for adjustable prop delivery. Pretty excited to try it out.
 
Kecouch said:
I just checked on my prop order which at the time I was given 5-7 weeks to ship. I was just told this morning it would take another 3 weeks. So my guess is it a 10+ week from order to shipping. I did get the spinner and had it painted and ready for adjustable prop delivery. Pretty excited to try it out.
Click to expand...

Bummer, not looking promising for an 0320 this float season then.
 
Talked to Don at Sensenich on Monday. FAA has thrown more flight testing at them for the O-320 that they did not require on the O-360 so it is delaying the STC. I can tell you that over a 8241 Borer the Sensenich with a #2 pitch pin (they include 0-5) gains 100 rpm static, better climb by far and 6-7 mph better cruise and takes 15 lbs of weight off and a stainless steel leading edge that is far better in sand and gravel than aluminum. I now have 5 on order with #4,5 and 6 slots once approved. With a #4 pitch pin lost a little climb, static rpm the same but was 12-14 mph faster than the 8241 Borer. I have a running list if anyone wants to purchase through me. I can have them drop shipped when ready.

The correct prop model for the PA18 with an O-320 is 2G0M6C82BGF
The prop for the O-360 powered Super Cub is 2G0M8C82BGF
The propeller is 82” diameter and can be trimmed shorter if needed.
The propeller features our innovative pitch gage system for adjusting the pitch.
I have attached Installation instructions which describe this in detail.
Price for propeller only with STC Documentation is $6350.00
Price for propeller and 12” diameter spinner with STC Documentation is $7085.00

Weight of the propeller and spinner is 21 pounds.

The propeller is available in any combination of White, Red, Black, Yellow, or Gray.
We can also do a clear coat finish over the carbon fabric along with your choice of tip stripes.

12-Inch cub Spinner.jpg
 

Attachments

  • PA-18-150_2G0Mx_C82BGF_Installation_Instructions_Rev0.pdf
    2.1 MB · Views: 576
  • 12-Inch cub Spinner.jpg
    12-Inch cub Spinner.jpg
    186.4 KB · Views: 21,038
Last edited:
1p235 afa8440

akavidflyer said:
Night and day difference. I made up a spread sheet for the local dealer who was involved in the testing and certification flights and we compared A LOT of different planes doing same day testing with the original prop on the planes then the Sensenich GA prop at various settings. Every single plane (not just cubs) showed significant improvement on take off, climb and cruise speed. On my 160 HP pacer I was over 48% shorter on take off times (17.7 seconds with 82X44 to 9 seconds at 34") on skis with a solid ice runway and better climb/cruise.

For what its worth, After a lot of testing I turned down one of the higher pitch pins that I can't use to give me a 35" pin and the 150/160 engine seems to like this pitch the best. At 34 I can turn it up and get the best take off time, but cruise suffered a few MPH. 35" and we seem to get about 1-2 seconds longer take off, but a few MPH faster than the 82X44 borer.

I have switch back to BW so I need to run the tests again just to see what the #s are on BW versus skis. The difference was enough that after testing the demo prop, I bolted my 82X44 back on for 2 flights then went and plopped my CC down and walked out the door with the new prop and I have never looked back.

Another benefit of the CF prop is instant spooling and better throttle response when your dragging it in.

I have said it before many times and I will say it again. If your running a mechanical tach have it check using an optical or digital tach. I have yet to see one that was not 150-250 RPM LOW on the top end so when your mechanical tach says your turning 2500 chances are your closer to 2300. I thought I must have had the world strongest 160 narrow deck till I checked the tach out. FWIW the optical and digital tach on the EM are within 1-2 RPM of each other.
Click to expand...


Thanks much for this data. Any comparison for TO and climb to the above prop? (PA-18 0360)
 
Just finished up my Recurrent DER training today and had a class on the new Part 23 regulations. Of note is that the Sensenich STC SP04490AT was issued under these new regulations. For all you guys that are thinking of using this STC, read the limitation section carefully if you have more than 2 seats in your Cub! The STC reclassifies the PA-18-150 (specific serial numbers as modified with 180HP engines) as a Class 1 low speed aircraft as defined in 14 CFR 23.2005. A Class1 aircraft is one with a maximum seating configuration of 0-1 passengers. If your airplane has more than 1 passenger seat, this STC is not applicable to your aircraft. Under 23.2400 paragraph (b), only Class 1 Low Speed aircraft can have the engine and propeller certified as part of the airframe (the approach Sensenich used for this STC). Just figured I'd throw this out there before someone paid $7k for a prop they can't use legally.

A lot of guys were asking about the possibility of putting this prop on Short Wing Pipers. Until Sensenich goes for a TC on the prop rather than just a PMA, all the short wing Pipers with more than 1 passenger seat are out of luck. Maybe some pressure needs to be put on Sensenich to actually go for a TC rather than just PMA. I know lots of folks that would but these props if they were legal to install.
 
dgapilot said:
Just finished up my Recurrent DER training today and had a class on the new Part 23 regulations. Of note is that the Sensenich STC SP04490AT was issued under these new regulations. For all you guys that are thinking of using this STC, read the limitation section carefully if you have more than 2 seats in your Cub! The STC reclassifies the PA-18-150 (specific serial numbers as modified with 180HP engines) as a Class 1 low speed aircraft as defined in 14 CFR 23.2005. A Class1 aircraft is one with a maximum seating configuration of 0-1 passengers. If your airplane has more than 1 passenger seat, this STC is not applicable to your aircraft. Under 23.2400 paragraph (b), only Class 1 Low Speed aircraft can have the engine and propeller certified as part of the airframe (the approach Sensenich used for this STC). Just figured I'd throw this out there before someone paid $7k for a prop they can't use legally.

A lot of guys were asking about the possibility of putting this prop on Short Wing Pipers. Until Sensenich goes for a TC on the prop rather than just a PMA, all the short wing Pipers with more than 1 passenger seat are out of luck. Maybe some pressure needs to be put on Sensenich to actually go for a TC rather than just PMA. I know lots of folks that would but these props if they were legal to install.
Click to expand...
Interesting! The devil is in the details. Thank you.
 
That is interesting. I thought they were going for an STC on 12s too. Would the rear seat in a 12 be considered 2 passenger seats or just one?

Is there any news on the O-320 18 STC?
 
This is the STC SP04490AT for installing the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on certain PA-18-150s which have been modified to use the Lycoming 180 hp 0-360 or IO-360. https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/9053fb048f04e38f862586b8004a6f0c/$FILE/SP04490AT.pdf

In reading the limitations, if the -18 had previously been modified for a third seat I would make a note on the 337 and in the log book that the third seat approval was no longer applicable while this propeller was installed.

If an approval were to be pursued for a suitable PA-12, it would be simple enough to limit the passenger seat to just one passenger.
 
skywagon8a said:
This is the STC SP04490AT for installing the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on certain PA-18-150s which have been modified to use the Lycoming 180 hp 0-360 or IO-360. https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/9053fb048f04e38f862586b8004a6f0c/$FILE/SP04490AT.pdf

In reading the limitations, if the -18 had previously been modified for a third seat I would make a note on the 337 and in the log book that the third seat approval was no longer applicable while this propeller was installed.
Click to expand...

Agreed, remove the 3rd seat STC. How about the 4 place wide fuselage, no way around that that I can see.


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skywagon8a said:
This is the STC SP04490AT for installing the Sensenich ground adjustable prop on certain PA-18-150s which have been modified to use the Lycoming 180 hp 0-360 or IO-360. https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/9053fb048f04e38f862586b8004a6f0c/$FILE/SP04490AT.pdf

In reading the limitations, if the -18 had previously been modified for a third seat I would make a note on the 337 and in the log book that the third seat approval was no longer applicable while this propeller was installed.

If an approval were to be pursued for a suitable PA-12, it would be simple enough to limit the passenger seat to just one passenger.
Click to expand...

Don’t think that would work on the PA-12, the TCDS clearly identifies it as a 3 place airplane for both land plane and sea plane.


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dgapilot said:
Don’t think that would work on the PA-12, the TCDS clearly identifies it as a 3 place airplane for both land plane and sea plane.
Click to expand...
Sure, unless otherwise modified. This is an STC. There isn't anything that says an STC can not mandate the removal of some other item.
 
I think to comply, you would need to put on the 337 that the 3rd seat STC was removed, it isn’t how many seats are installed, it is how many are certified. For the PA-12, you could do an STC to make it a 2 place airplane, then do the STC to install the prop.


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Why would you need to do two separate STCs? Couldn't the propeller STC state that the airplane was limited to two persons?
 
In a -18 the STC is for a 3rd seat but most just use it for the increased baggage capacity and rarely if ever does anyone sit back there, could you remove the "seat" but keep the 180 pound capacity and still be ok with the prop STC?
 
I haven’t seen the STC so I can’t comment. I think I’d go back to the STC holder and see if they can do an option on the STC to have a third seat, OR a 180 lb baggage, but you can’t have both configurations approved. This would be best to discuss with the certifying Aircraft Certification Office for both the third seat STC and the prop STC.


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Legally as far as I know the "3rd seat" stc's are all primarily a 180lb baggage area stc. This seems like one of those "don't ask don't tell" grey areas in legality.
 
checking to see if prop can be installed on a 1953 pa18A S/N 2495 with CC 180 hp stc installed
 
skysigns said:
checking to see if prop can be installed on a 1953 pa18A S/N 2495 with CC 180 hp stc installed
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That would take a Field Approval or a model change as the 1953 PA-18A was a PA-18A-135. I'm currently dealing with the same issue for a 1953 PA-18A-135 and the instal of the WipAir 2000 lb. gross weight increase. That STC is also specific to a PA-18-150. Whats interesting about the Sencsenich STC is it does not include PA-18A-150's or PA-18S-150 models. This should backlog the FAA field approval process about 3 years.
 
I put an (pre) order in for this prop in April for my -150 and haven’t heard any updates on the STC status or production. Ident if you have any data.


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Prop is approved for 180hp. They did this with the intent that it would be a quick and easy process to get approval for 150hp. FAA said otherwise.
 
I am working with the Sensenich engineers and planning on flight testing early December for the 150 and 160 hp
 
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