redheadcubpilot
PATRON
Super cub Flight instruction ideas
- Thread starter redheadcubpilot
- Start date
I learned to fly in a Pacer with a very patient CFI. Over the years some of the issues I have seen with new tailwheel pilots include fear of brakes. I watched a new tailwheel pilot drive a plane off the runway and groundloop because he was instructed to never use the brakes on landing. He could have easily regained directional control early on with a simple tap the brake. So somewhere along the line you have show them how that works. Tailwheel aircraft get in trouble when the tires are on the ground. So the best training would be to not leave the runway. Very hard on the instructor but just do tail up run and stay on the runway. Get to the end and taxi on back. Learn to pick up a wing and stay straight, now you have crosswinds trained. Two or three hours of this and the student should be pretty good on the ground although they may never come back for another lesson. I try to make my normal takeoff use up a lot of runway on one wheel, just pull power to 1600 and she will stay on the ground. I don't torture my instructors with the drills just something I figured out to improve my skills. Once the ground skills are mastered then teaching them to slow down and proper flair is easy because they are not scared of touchdown. I am not a CFI, but I do fly with some trying to improve their cub skills. DENNY
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Roddy,
When I was instructing in my 180 hp 170 on floats/wheels/skis in Alaska, I couldn't afford hull insurance. I simply couldn't fly enough hours to make it even come close to break even. So, I instructed with liability insurance only.
At one point, I actually thought about allowing solo on floats. Insurance company said no way, NO insurance, not even liability, under ANY circumstances.
At the University, we had a Top Cub. The way our tailwheel syllabus was originally written, it required one hour solo flight after the student was signed off on the endorsement.
It only took the legal folks and insurer about a year to pick up on that, and announce NO more student solo in the Cub. Grrrrrr. Only people ever wrecked that plane were UND CFIs.....Grrrrr.
MTV
An awful lot of good info in this thread. Something else to consider is glider instruction/rating. You can't get much better at Energy Management than with flying a sailplane, and all flights have the potential to being an off field landing. Most of our students learn to touch down within 50' of a predefined point, and stop within 10' of a predefined point before solo. Far more precise than what the FAA requires, but again, as soon as someone goes cross country, the potential is there for off field landings. We also go into the concepts of how to pick a field, and avoiding obstacles. This is not to say that glider flying is the only thing that is needed for off field training, but it will certainly hone the skills of the pilot involved.
I think it has to be just the love of aviation to make you even consider a venture such as this. If that’s the case, have fun. It will likely never make much money, but it’s sure fun, until it isn’t. You know how they say to make a small fortune in aviation.. start with a large one..
redheadcubpilot
PATRON
Vermont
Glider flying definitely teaches some amazing energy management skills. Only ever get one chance. Towing gliders was also a tremendous amount of fun too
redheadcubpilot
PATRON
Vermont
I think most flight schools are started for the love of aviation. Know a lot of life long instructors who do it because they enjoy teaching others.
redheadcubpilot
PATRON
Vermont
Completely get the insurance with liability only. Can save a lot of money but better have a spare airplane or pieces.
Yes, towing is great practice at learning spot landings. Figure about 6 an hour with a PA-18, about 8 an hour with a PA-25. I’ve had any dumber of days with +40 tows in a day. Practice, practice, practice.
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redheadcubpilot
PATRON
Vermont
I have only towed with the PA-25. How did you like towing with the super cub? I know a lot of places that’s what they use.
I prefer flying the Cub, but the Pawnee gets more tows per hour. I also towed with a PA-22/20. Longer ground run, but climbs almost as good as a Cub. I actually like the higher drag on the Cub for descent. Crank up to a 60 degree bank, hold 2300 rpm, pull some Gs and come down at about 1800 fpm.
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Steve has a very good point. Marketing can not be overlooked if you want to make a business out of it.
Example: Joe has a P-51 sitting there to give you a war bird ride, and Tom has a T-6. You want to go for a ride and show your buddies... which you going to choose?
Energy management is what must be learned. Knowing or feeling the energy changes and to be able to smoothly put the tires where you want!
Frankly, to actually hone skills and get students the ability to actually land crazy places, I would prefer my old champ to teach them, put VG's and 26" bush wheels on and go, (it already had hydraulic brakes). Lots to be said for lower power, and no flaps when getting a handle on spot landing.
A training cub, with marketing in mind for me would be a stripped 150 hp with a 2" Scott tailwheel and 26" tires, VG's and very little else. I would have a set of 31" on wheels ready to install if you get a group ready to 'go adventure' and have a special charge for that...
I would never use goodyears, as part of the training should be braking on landing with the tail up. If you get aggressive with Goodyears you can spin them and things go south quick. Small tailwheel to limit shimmy, and most of your training should be done on at least semi solid surface lest you really want to charge lots for repairs.
150 is a smoother engine, less vibration and less per hour cost to run.
I would start every student with smooth takeoffs- pre set flaps before power, and just let them get a feel. Then it would be learning the approach and repeated smooth approaches to a landing point, focused on smooth and small power adjustments and pitch changes. Get them landing on the spot. On takeoffs they need to call the lift off spot.
Once it is all working for them, having other places to go. It is all well and good to put cones and chalk lines on the ground, but a big part of the game is making the plane perform with different sight pictures and obstacles. A cliff at the end of the runway is a difficult approach- no way to come in using ground effect, so you have to come down in a descent and spot it right on, often there will be a sinker right there also- trees with a gap along the side will allow wind to come across in little gusts... This is why it is good to have folks experience different places, and as said before not having markings or a sock to tell you what and where can be a challenge on it's own.
The little bit I have gotten to do in the North East was not terribly technical or complicated for me. It was apparent that one needed to have basic control understanding to be successful following others around, as they have some not so easy places to land. Not insurmountable for the average person either, but I saw enough places that were 'non-standard' that could easily develop pilots from 100x4000' runway folks into guys that demand precision from themselves!!
Then again, there is that blue RV-4 with shopping cart wheels that seems to be almost everywhere I went;-)
I hope you are able to do it, and have fun with it!
George
Example: Joe has a P-51 sitting there to give you a war bird ride, and Tom has a T-6. You want to go for a ride and show your buddies... which you going to choose?
Energy management is what must be learned. Knowing or feeling the energy changes and to be able to smoothly put the tires where you want!
Frankly, to actually hone skills and get students the ability to actually land crazy places, I would prefer my old champ to teach them, put VG's and 26" bush wheels on and go, (it already had hydraulic brakes). Lots to be said for lower power, and no flaps when getting a handle on spot landing.
A training cub, with marketing in mind for me would be a stripped 150 hp with a 2" Scott tailwheel and 26" tires, VG's and very little else. I would have a set of 31" on wheels ready to install if you get a group ready to 'go adventure' and have a special charge for that...
I would never use goodyears, as part of the training should be braking on landing with the tail up. If you get aggressive with Goodyears you can spin them and things go south quick. Small tailwheel to limit shimmy, and most of your training should be done on at least semi solid surface lest you really want to charge lots for repairs.
150 is a smoother engine, less vibration and less per hour cost to run.
I would start every student with smooth takeoffs- pre set flaps before power, and just let them get a feel. Then it would be learning the approach and repeated smooth approaches to a landing point, focused on smooth and small power adjustments and pitch changes. Get them landing on the spot. On takeoffs they need to call the lift off spot.
Once it is all working for them, having other places to go. It is all well and good to put cones and chalk lines on the ground, but a big part of the game is making the plane perform with different sight pictures and obstacles. A cliff at the end of the runway is a difficult approach- no way to come in using ground effect, so you have to come down in a descent and spot it right on, often there will be a sinker right there also- trees with a gap along the side will allow wind to come across in little gusts... This is why it is good to have folks experience different places, and as said before not having markings or a sock to tell you what and where can be a challenge on it's own.
The little bit I have gotten to do in the North East was not terribly technical or complicated for me. It was apparent that one needed to have basic control understanding to be successful following others around, as they have some not so easy places to land. Not insurmountable for the average person either, but I saw enough places that were 'non-standard' that could easily develop pilots from 100x4000' runway folks into guys that demand precision from themselves!!
Then again, there is that blue RV-4 with shopping cart wheels that seems to be almost everywhere I went;-)
I hope you are able to do it, and have fun with it!
George
redheadcubpilot
PATRON
Vermont
Thanks for all the good nuggets. Northeast has all the grass strips with the big tall trees
redheadcubpilot
PATRON
Vermont
One of the greatest debates of the entire SC forum, what engine is the best choice. Seems to be the 150/160 as light weight as you can get.
Same choice of engine if you were going to do wheel skies or floats ?
