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Thread: Super Cub against a Twin Bee.

  1. #1
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Super Cub against a Twin Bee.

    Here is the outcome of our own Skywagon8a showing one of Maine's very best, Warden Pilot Gary Doumond what a
    Twin Bee will do in Greenville 1978! It was Quick.Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    We could set you up with one right now Earle.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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    He beat me too when we were both in Twin Bees. He had checked me out in ours shortly before Greenville, and all I could think of was that line “I taught you everything you know, I just didn’t teach you everything I know.......”

  4. #4
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Uncle Glen,
    I think I would only be about 1/4 million short on Denaro......
    E
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    Uncle Glen,
    I think I would only be about 1/4 million short on Denaro......
    E
    Would you settle for one engine and 200k?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    It's amazing what some twins are capable of ..... esp if you ignore blueline.
    A friend of mine used to do takeoffs like that in his 160hp Apache,
    but kept his fingers crossed that one side didn't quit.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    It’s not just twins... A good friend was doing a short takeoff and max climb in a PA-12 when it quit. Stick full forward and the nose had barely dropped at all as the airplane impacted the runway with a near vertical vector. Probably about 50 to 75 feet when it quit....
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    G44's Avatar
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    It’s also amazing what a Widgeon can do in capable hands.

    Kurt
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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    It’s not just twins... A good friend was doing a short takeoff and max climb in a PA-12 when it quit. Stick full forward and the nose had barely dropped at all as the airplane impacted the runway with a near vertical vector. Probably about 50 to 75 feet when it quit....
    I tried that at altitude in my 12, a staggering climb with full flaps. It took almost 200 ft to fully recover and flare to level flight. That was without practicing more than a couple times, but also without startle factor.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    It's amazing what some twins are capable of ..... esp if you ignore blueline.
    That is true, but in the take off which was happening in that photo that was not the case. Vmc is only 58 mph.
    N1PA

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    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    It’s not just twins... A good friend was doing a short takeoff and max climb in a PA-12 when it quit. Stick full forward and the nose had barely dropped at all as the airplane impacted the runway with a near vertical vector. Probably about 50 to 75 feet when it quit....
    The carbon cub guys do this but they have never done it at alt and pulled the throttle. It’s an eye opener.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    Had it happen in a J3 at 50 feet. It really was a scramble - nose down, then nose up. Those full flap Vx climbs in a 160 Super Cub are actually frightening - an engine failure in the first 200' might kill you.
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    Here is the outcome of our own Skywagon8a showing one of Maine's very best, Warden Pilot Gary Doumond what a
    Twin Bee will do in Greenville 1978! It was Quick.Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for this picture E, never saw it from this perspective. My recollection is looking out the right rear window at the Cub's unsuccessful attempt to keep up.

    Incidentally, A similar contest was held with a Helio on amphib floats off land and water with the same results. Not at Greenville. The Helio was flown by a highly experienced Helio pilot and there were two people onboard the Twin Bee. One of whom was one of the engineers who designed the Helio wing.
    N1PA
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  14. #14
    G44's Avatar
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    The objective in these contests is to get off the water/ground. The slow steep climb outs are dangerous in any airplane and are not need for a win in the competition. Break ground, lower nose, accelerate and climb out at a safe speed.
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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    The objective in these contests is to get off the water/ground. The slow steep climb outs are dangerous in any airplane and are not need for a win in the competition. Break ground, lower nose, accelerate and climb out at a safe speed.
    Should be if you not level at 50' it's a DQ

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  16. #16
    G44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Should be if you not level at 50' it's a DQ

    Glenn
    Oooo, I like that!

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    The objective in these contests is to get off the water/ground. The slow steep climb outs are dangerous in any airplane and are not need for a win in the competition. Break ground, lower nose, accelerate and climb out at a safe speed.
    As a general rule of thumb that is a very fair statement. However, in the instance of the airplane noted in post#1 of this thread, the airplane was within the normal safe parameters of it's performance capabilities. It just looks to be showing off. It is truly an amazing airplane unlike it's lead sled predecessor.
    N1PA
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  18. #18
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Your certainly welcome Pete! Found that pic and one of the Nomad on floats that belonged to J&J. I remember Bob Bryant and his Helio he took to Labrador ever summer, all this quite a ways back in the rear view mirror!
    Remember when Charlie Coe and Max F tied two 185's togeather and took off and flew around and landed? Also
    Telford used to get a couple of girls in bikinis to squat down in hatches of 3500 PK's and spring out as they flew past the crowd???? But your performances with the TwinBee was a showstopper! Great demonstration of what it will do with the master at the helm!
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  19. #19
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    Your certainly welcome Pete! Found that pic and one of the Nomad on floats that belonged to J&J. I remember Bob Bryant and his Helio he took to Labrador ever summer, all this quite a ways back in the rear view mirror!
    Remember when Charlie Coe and Max F tied two 185's togeather and took off and flew around and landed? Also
    Telford used to get a couple of girls in bikinis to squat down in hatches of 3500 PK's and spring out as they flew past the crowd???? But your performances with the TwinBee was a showstopper! Great demonstration of what it will do with the master at the helm!
    I had the fortunate opportunity to fly that Nomad. It's surprising it didn't catch on in the part 135 community.
    N1PA

  20. #20
    G44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    As a general rule of thumb that is a very fair statement. However, in the instance of the airplane noted in post#1 of this thread, the airplane was within the normal safe parameters of it's performance capabilities. It just looks to be showing off. It is truly an amazing airplane unlike it's lead sled predecessor.
    Maybe so but the Super Cub pilot would have had his hands full if his engine had quit. As amazing as the Twin Bee may be, had an engine quit at the moment in the picture, directional control might not be an issue if above VMC and perfect pilot technique but I would have a hard time believing that the airplane would not contact the water.

  21. #21
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Here is the Nomad same weekend Pete........ Reid and I where both there that day. Max was waterskiing behind Dick's Beaver ?Click image for larger version. 

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  22. #22
    Scouter's Avatar
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    Those take off contests were the highlight of the weekend. Most folks came just to watch those. Reid Campbell was always a sure bet, I remember them all draining gas, stripping out anything that wasnt hooked down. I remember there being 20 planes fly in the contest Earle? Tony Cesere was a good stick , Later on the Dunn boys always dominated, still do. I just remember it being really competitive. Then Douten got beat by a girl one day....
    jim

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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    Those take off contests were the highlight of the weekend. Most folks came just to watch those. Reid Campbell was always a sure bet, I remember them all draining gas, stripping out anything that wasnt hooked down. I remember there being 20 planes fly in the contest Earle? Tony Cesere was a good stick , Later on the Dunn boys always dominated, still do. I just remember it being really competitive. Then Douten got beat by a girl one day....
    jim
    Jim, you know he's sensitive about that spanking. What's wrong with you?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  24. #24
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    Well in those days Jim in all honesty, alot of us now feel that the crowd that was watching had ALOT more invested
    in the excitement as most were either related to the person or good friends with one of the contestants! The amount of Champs/Tcrafts/J3's competing was much higher......... So it was certainly much more " off the cuff" back then for sure. I went over early that year in my old PA11/1320's (that leaked like a seave) thinking I could place well. Took a stroll over to F&G hanger to see what was happening, only to find them "polishing the bottoms" of
    the then, NEW Edo 2000 floats,on the brand new Super Cub that had something called a "Borer prop" on the front of it??? They had striped ever possible thing out of it! And the light bulb came, on this was serious business! And so it started......... To where we are today; Super flat long props, everything ported/ polished, monster flaps, and times just get less and less on the stop watch, 7/8 sec used to be a trophy. Now 5 sec's or under are guys to watch. The enthusiasm is NOT nearly as high now from the crowd, but I had never heard them roar as loud as at the last one , when young Matt Lagasse put his float right up and over the dock coming in too fast from the canoe race,
    It was amazing. Or the deathly silence of the crowd when the home town favorite, Tommy Dunn (the best of the best) lost to a certain green Maule..... Douten is one of many that got their as* handed to them by 'a girl' so he shouldn't feel badly..........
    Greenville is a phenomena, not just an airshow.
    E
    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 04-06-2021 at 01:35 AM.
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    Maybe so but the Super Cub pilot would have had his hands full if his engine had quit. As amazing as the Twin Bee may be, had an engine quit at the moment in the picture, directional control might not be an issue if above VMC and perfect pilot technique but I would have a hard time believing that the airplane would not contact the water.
    You need to fly and become familiar with a Twin Bee to learn what it will easily do.
    Also bear in mind that both airplanes were at minimum weights.
    N1PA

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    There's a Twin Bee parked on the ramp at Arlington WA KAWO.
    It was a hangar queen for many years at another nearby airport,
    but was ferried over to KAWO last year & worked on there for quite a while.
    So maybe it's squared away, maybe not.
    It might be for sale if anyone's interested --
    call Wild Blue Aviation on the field there for more info.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    There is a nice one over here for sale within 150 miles of Pete. Now that the 185 is gone you need to go back to Greenville and teach that girl that whopped Doutens britches some respect

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    There's a Twin Bee parked on the ramp at Arlington WA KAWO.
    It was a hangar queen for many years at another nearby airport,
    but was ferried over to KAWO last year & worked on there for quite a while.
    So maybe it's squared away, maybe not.
    It might be for sale if anyone's interested --
    call Wild Blue Aviation on the field there for more info.
    I think that’s the one I used to fly and take care of, SN 11. It was registered N940Y. I heard it was sitting derelict in a hangar in or near Bellingham.

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