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Thread: Do you have your head up your A*S?

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    nesincg's Avatar
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    Do you have your head up your A*S?

    I know it seems like I post this every year, but it is every 2nd year. Once again it is Colon Cancer Awareness month and because it is not a joy to look at, the whole month has gone by and you've heard nothing. As I'm writing a whole new post, I ask that you read it entirely as I pour a lot into this. For what I've gone through, it is the least you can do. Feel free to share it as well.

    I'd research how much Colon and especially Colorectal Cancer is trending earlier but I did that last time. So this time I'm going to point out that even superheroes aren't immune. Black Panther, Chadwick Boseman, died last year at age 43 due this trending cancer. He was diagnosed in 2016 (age 39) with stage 3, but the disease spread to 4 and finally took his life. I was upset at first because he could have used his celebrity status to cast more light, but I quickly learned he would not have been a celebrity or gotten another job because of his diagnosis.


    While it is true that 90% of Colon Cancer diagnosis occurs above age 50, that is also the age that insurance starts to pay for the procedure to check. If insurance paid for earlier, they probably would catch a lot more a lot sooner. So many younger people were getting the cancer that the American Cancer Society updated its recommendation for adults with average risk to begin screenings at age 45 three years ago. This has gone unnoticed by the bean counters and the procedure still isn't paid until age 50.




    Now, if you have symptoms or family history, that is a whole nother case. Insurance will pony up if you go through the correct channels. Symptoms include blood in stool, fatigue, weakness, abdominal pain, dark stool, or even just strange bowel movements. If you have any of these, you have to start by going to your primary care physician (PCP). If you don't have one, search around, but it will take a while to get an initial appointment. Once you get to this point, they are just general physicians, so make them refer you to a Gastroenterologist. At this point discuss the problems you've been having and demand a colonoscopy. It is their job to then work on your insurance company to pay for the procedure. You will need to get it pre-approved.



    My diagnosis was stage 3, same as Mr Boseman, but fortunately my response to radiation was good and it has not returned. Unfortunately I'm still dealing with after-effects of constant nausea that is medically keeping me from my flying job. I loved that job, and this sucks, but at least I'm still around to help a little with my daughter. I'm also lucky for being white.



    No, this is not political, this is statistical. Colorectal cancer rates are 20% higher in African Americans. The rate of death is unfortunately 40% higher for this same group. So to all my fellow black friends, please make it a point this year to heed Simone Ledward Boseman's advice. Get checked ASAP and sooner if you have symptoms. Here is a link to those statistics as well as other general information: https://www.samc.com/about-us/news-a...-cancer-battle


    I'd stop posting these but fortunately it saves lives and I hope it saves more. I have a friend younger than 50 diagnosed with stage 4 Colon cancer with no symptoms. I have another friend in their 30s with blood in their stool, but I can't seem to urge enough to get checked out. Probably got caught up in the hassle or things the procedure is too invasive. I have an In-law over 50 AND family history, who just outright refuses.



    So the procedure sounds bad, but it isn't. The night before in the bathroom kind of sucks, but that is private and beats the hell out of getting cancer. They prescribe a liquid and you drink in the evening. Since you haven't eaten all day, you basically pee out your butt for a few hours. Then you do it again later that night. No worse than diarrhea. You get 5 or 6 hours of good sleep and get your colonoscopy. They give you IV, then sedation, then 5 seconds later you wake up in recovery with no memory of the procedure.


    You've probably seen commercials for a new product Cologuard (or as I say poop in a box). It works, but does not work well enough if you have symptoms. If this is your only choice, so be it. I'm guessing this technology will only improve with time, but that is many years in the future. I'm not really sure why, but it is still prescription only. Maybe easier for your PCP to prescribe.


    In summary, eat healthy, get checked as soon as possible. While this is the 3rd highest cancer killer, it is also the most preventable. When caught early in a colonoscopy, it is a quick snip and you're good for 3 to 5 years.



    Here are a few articles this year from advocates like myself:

    https://www.wowt.com/2021/03/26/colo...th-screenings/
    https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...orectal-cancer
    https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/san...-get-screened-
    https://youtu.be/-a4zH0kmPFo
    The aviator formally known as 89.

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    aeroaddict's Avatar
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    Quick answer: NO!

    But thanks for the reminder. Modern medicine can now cure or keep in check a lot of cancers IF we 'go to the doctor' when something is suspected.

    When I was working with full health care, someone would complain about something and I would say 'go to the doctor'. If was often met with some type of excuse not to go.

    Thanks again.
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    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Thanks, Chris! This is a great reminder.

    Wishing you and your family the very best,

    Randy

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    I think it was your 2017 post that prodded me to get checked out. Now I'm on the 5 year inspection plan.

    Keep at it!
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    We lost a pilot and friend shortly after his retirement. He had never been screened, and by the time he visited the Doctor it was too late. Our CEO at the time was Chairman of the Board of Dana Farber Cancer Institute and he was mad as hell. I’ll always remember him pointing his finger aggressively and saying “there is absolutely no excuse for not getting screened. No one should ever die from this!” Got my first screening 3 days after my 50th birthday and every 5 years since. Get screened people, I believe I owe it to my family as well as myself....
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroaddict View Post
    Quick answer: NO!

    But thanks for the reminder. Modern medicine can now cure or keep in check a lot of cancers IF we 'go to the doctor' when something is suspected.
    If you wait until you have symptoms you've waited too long. That's the point of screening.

    I lost my dad to colon cancer 34 years ago. He never met his granddaughter.

    My doc always says that not every polyp develops into cancer but every cancer begins as a polyp. Getting them removed is simple and painless. Personally? I enjoy the Versed nap.
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    Always a good reminder. Just had my screening a couple months ago. Good for another 10 years! Unfortunately, too many go unscreened. My wife's sister would likely be alive today if she had done routine exam when she turned 50. Sad to lose folks to something that can be headed off at the pass.
    Joe

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    JP's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reminder. Because of you I finally got around to getting scoped and am on the five year plan.

    For those of you with any reservations about getting the procedure done, set them aside as it is very routine, painless and gives you a great excuse to take part of the day off from work. I managed to get scoped then conned my spouse for a trip down to the coast for lunch and shopping out of the deal. The drugs are fantastic and impressive in how quickly they work.

    So, if you are approaching 50 please get this done. The life you can save is one that we will all be a good deal sorry about if you check out early due to a cancer that can be successfully treated if caught early in routine screening.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
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    TVATIVAK71's Avatar
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    Turning 50 on Thursday and getting scoped same day. First medical procedure Iíve ever had....hell Iíve never even had an IV. Lost two friends to colon cancer and watched an uncle fight it. Pretty easy decision to get the procedure.
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    Just do it.The flush doesn’t take long The meds to make it happen are worse.Doc asked if I wanted to watch on screen. Never saw the first act and was out. Had a good snooze though.
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    Might want to look into the rate of perforated colons from scopes. And dig into the efficacy studies. It ain't as cheeky as the butthole surfers make it out to be. Just do some research before taking the advice of people that read the pamphlet promoting a medical service and are now experts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreggB View Post
    Might want to look into the rate of perforated colons from scopes. And dig into the efficacy studies. It ain't as cheeky as the butthole surfers make it out to be. Just do some research before taking the advice of people that read the pamphlet promoting a medical service and are now experts.
    Never heard of anyone getting a perforated colon. However I know many with cancer. Butthole surfers, seriously?
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    Thanks for the reminder Chris. I have lost so many friends to colon cancer and have yet another undergoing chemo following a bowel resection. All because they didn't want someone shoving a camera up there. As for bowel perforations or bleeding; it happens on rare occasions. That's why you want to go to the guy that does the procedure every day rather than a general surgeon. Been there. Done that. The guy failed to properly cauterize an area where he removed a polyp, which caused a great deal of blood lossabout 6 hours later. I found that you do stop bleeding when you start to run out of blood and the blood pressure goes to 0. Hmm. Kind of makes sense. Got a trip to the ER and a couple of pints of blood to bring me back up to the add mark and went on about life the next day. Compared to dying of colon cancer, not really a big deal.

    I always ask for them to go light on the drugs and stay awake for the procedure and ask questions. Probably drives the Dr nuts, but I want to watch the screen and get an explanation for what he sees.

    -Cub Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreggB View Post
    Might want to look into the rate of perforated colons from scopes. And dig into the efficacy studies. It ain't as cheeky as the butthole surfers make it out to be. Just do some research before taking the advice of people that read the pamphlet promoting a medical service and are now experts.
    What is the rate of perforated colons from scopes? Enquiring minds. . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
    What is the rate of perforated colons from scopes? Enquiring minds. . . .
    Pretty easy to find all you want to know with a little online search.. I’ll leave it to you to find the source you trust and draw your own conclusions.....

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    I have also lost a number of friends and clients - great people who made things happen but got taken out by something as dumb as this. Embarrassed so didnít get screened. A lot more embarrassing once you have the disease and need treatment. I get screened every 5 years now


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
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    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Shrug on the perforations. I lost a childhood best friend at 55, and three other good friends in 2019 through 2020 to this. None of them liked doctors. They fought hard after the fact and lost.

    I miss them all.
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    Just do it, you will really enjoy the nap!

    Kurt
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    Surf's up every 5 years for me since I turned 40, no matter how many times the Doctor says "see you in 10 years." My advice is to go to a proper clinic that performs thousands of such exams a year (I've even built one of these facilities and they are fascinating) as practice makes better but no matter what I'd go a plumber before I'd risk having undetected colon cancer. I've lost far too many friends and co-workers to it, oh and as with any invasive (and that it is) out-patient procedure, smart money says don't be out of medical range for a few days afterwards and pay attention to what your body is telling you.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 03-31-2021 at 04:36 PM.
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    I was an anesthesiologist for 30 years and have sedated and slept many people for colonoscopy and EGD. From my experience this is a very safe and necessary procedure. And yes I have had it done several times my self. I lost my next oldest brother to colon cancer 9 years ago when he was 68. I still miss flying with him. He was scoped 7 years before and we had no known family history on colon cancer, and was on the 10 year plan for rescoping.
    The procedure itself done by an experience gastroenterologist is very safe and the anesthesia has minimal risk (Thanks to propofol and versed). Recovery is quick.
    The worst part of the procedure is getting your colon clean the day before. A very small price to pay for the reassurance that you wont die of colon cance.

    JUST DO IT
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    I certainly appreciate your post, an trust me...I know...at 52 in 2018, and after 28 years of teaching and coaching I decided to retire. Two weeks later, I was set back during a random check up to be told I had Stage IV colon cancer! Fast forward a bit over three years and I’m still living, fighting and doing my thing.

    Here’s a brief summery, hopefully it sinks in and folks get screened: 1056 days since diagnosis, 76 chemotherapy infusions, Cyberknife radiation two times, a liver resection, nine surgeries, 8 colonoscopies, 45 nights in hospitals, one medevac ride, 9 doctors, lots of nurses, 2 ambulance rides, over 70 blood draws, 15 CAT scans, 3 PET scans, tons of hugs, prayers and complete love from my family and more just to survive...


    A survivalist once said that Survival can be summed up in three words...never! give! up!


    With that said I’ll never give up...


    Surviving cancer is a challenge...it’s every day, every night and every moment. It has highs and lows, challenges and success... I am still living, loving and hopeful!


    As always my friends...take care of each other, be kind, and be the reason someone smiles today...as always, enjoy something cold for me...best to each of you!
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    My take.... do it every 5 years. Once you get over the embarrassment of it, go in with the attitude of no anesthesia. Thatís what I did a few months ago. Piece of cake. Iíve had gas pains worse than that. Paying an anesthesiologist is a scam which I told the Dr after it was over. Actually entertaining, kinda like a live version of the undersea world of Jacques Cousteau. No recovery, got up and walked out.


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    nesincg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J5Ron View Post

    With that said I’ll never give up...


    Surviving cancer is a challenge...it’s every day, every night and every moment. It has highs and lows, challenges and success... I am still living, loving and hopeful!

    God bless you Ron and your strength. A new goal is to meet up with you in a few years.
    The aviator formally known as 89.
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    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveE View Post
    My take.... do it every 5 years. Once you get over the embarrassment of it, go in with the attitude of no anesthesia. That’s what I did a few months ago. Piece of cake. I’ve had gas pains worse than that. Paying an anesthesiologist is a scam which I told the Dr after it was over. Actually entertaining, kinda like a live version of the undersea world of Jacques Cousteau. No recovery, got up and walked out.


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    I like that! (Well not really, but I'm willing to try).

    I had a cystoscopy without anesthesia. Talk about embarrassing.

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    Just had the scope today. Other than the IV needle insertion (never had a IV ever!) was pretty painless. Just some bloating and weird feeling from being knocked out. 4 polyps removed and being tested. A birthday to remember!

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    Quote Originally Posted by J5Ron View Post
    I certainly appreciate your post, an trust me...I know...at 52 in 2018, and after 28 years of teaching and coaching I decided to retire. Two weeks later, I was set back during a random check up to be told I had Stage IV colon cancer! Fast forward a bit over three years and Iím still living, fighting and doing my thing.

    Hereís a brief summery, hopefully it sinks in and folks get screened: 1056 days since diagnosis, 76 chemotherapy infusions, Cyberknife radiation two times, a liver resection, nine surgeries, 8 colonoscopies, 45 nights in hospitals, one medevac ride, 9 doctors, lots of nurses, 2 ambulance rides, over 70 blood draws, 15 CAT scans, 3 PET scans, tons of hugs, prayers and complete love from my family and more just to survive...


    A survivalist once said that Survival can be summed up in three words...never! give! up!


    With that said Iíll never give up...


    Surviving cancer is a challenge...itís every day, every night and every moment. It has highs and lows, challenges and success... I am still living, loving and hopeful!


    As always my friends...take care of each other, be kind, and be the reason someone smiles today...as always, enjoy something cold for me...best to each of you!
    Amazing post!! I thank you and my wife thanks you!!

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    nesincg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
    What is the rate of perforated colons from scopes? Enquiring minds. . . .
    So I found it wasn't so easy to to get current information on the rates. At least no recent studies. Any recent paper I'd find on the subject would cite a study completed in 2006.

    The best I could find was a summation from 2019 of all studies done and it had a table to make things easy. The studies indicate a perforation rate of 0.02% to 0.08%. I left out one study with much lower results because I felt it didn't have enough sample size. Keep in mind that the latest study in this table was completed in 2012. That's not exactly recent. https://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v25/i2/190-T1.htm

    Your chances of developing colon cancer in your lifetime is 4.3%. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/colon-...tatistics.html

    I hope these numbers give you adequate information to make a knowledgeable decision.
    The aviator formally known as 89.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveE View Post
    My take.... do it every 5 years. Once you get over the embarrassment of it, go in with the attitude of no anesthesia. That’s what I did a few months ago. Piece of cake. I’ve had gas pains worse than that. Paying an anesthesiologist is a scam which I told the Dr after it was over. Actually entertaining, kinda like a live version of the undersea world of Jacques Cousteau. No recovery, got up and walked out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I did it your way, once, on my first one 22 years ago because of insurance and I was broke. Today I'm really glad the procedure has improved with technology because back then they screwed a light bulb into the end of a garden hose and told me to RELAX...

    I'll take the meds please, kind of like going to the dentist where I need Nitrous just to make the appointment.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 04-02-2021 at 04:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nesincg View Post
    So I found it wasn't so easy to to get current information on the rates. At least no recent studies. Any recent paper I'd find on the subject would cite a study completed in 2006.

    The best I could find was a summation from 2019 of all studies done and it had a table to make things easy. The studies indicate a perforation rate of 0.02% to 0.08%. I left out one study with much lower results because I felt it didn't have enough sample size. Keep in mind that the latest study in this table was completed in 2012. That's not exactly recent. https://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/full/v25/i2/190-T1.htm

    Your chances of developing colon cancer in your lifetime is 4.3%. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/colon-...tatistics.html

    I hope these numbers give you adequate information to make a knowledgeable decision.
    I remember seeing 1 in a thousand as the number of perforations. As well there are studies suggesting that those that have polyps removed are more likely to get cancer. The scare behind scoping revolves around very aggressive colon cancer that has a good chance of killing you scope or not. The 'dreaded' cancerous polyps removed at age 50 would take 50 years to kill most people and they will be dead of something else before then. There is a lot of money in anal medical probing, someday they will look at it like we look at bloodletting. Or not, maybe the procedure and the money it brings in will rule forever. Everyone gets to do whatever they want I was just making those interested aware that there is risk involved in the procedure and it isn't the super greatest thing ever that they claim. Please do whatever you are most comfortable with.

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    A simple ‘yes” would have sufficed.
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    My Doc recommends the annual "at home" poop test as an alternative to the probe.
    N1PA
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  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreggB View Post
    Everyone gets to do whatever they want I was just making those interested aware that there is risk involved in the procedure and it isn't the super greatest thing ever that they claim. Please do whatever you are most comfortable with.
    Actually, it looks to me like your original post was an attempt to make people feel ignorant for obtaining what most trained physicians will say is a reasonable procedure with acceptable risk based on the statistics. And then you added the grade school reference to butthole surfers which really doesn’t help anyone take your post seriously, like your latest post references anal probing. Whatever your motivation, whether fear of the procedure for yourself or distrust of the “system”, you would likely get a better response by interacting in a more adult manner. But it’s the internet, so please do what makes you happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    My Doc recommends the annual "at home" poop test as an alternative to the probe.
    Good. That passes the 'first do no harm' test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    Actually, it looks to me like your original post was an attempt to make people feel ignorant for obtaining what most trained physicians will say is a reasonable procedure with acceptable risk based on the statistics. And then you added the grade school reference to butthole surfers which really doesn’t help anyone take your post seriously, like your latest post references anal probing. Whatever your motivation, whether fear of the procedure for yourself or distrust of the “system”, you would likely get a better response by interacting in a more adult manner. But it’s the internet, so please do what makes you happy.
    Perhaps tone was wrong, on the other hand it is information that goes against an entrenched created 'norm' so perhaps that tone is required. Of course people that have already had the procedure are going to have the hardest time re-evaluating the benefits. I don't expect many to look into it, and whatever people choose to do is fine by me. I believe, as do others, that it is a practice that has negative at least as often as positive outcomes and no one shares this information as the pro poop chute inspection complex is big on protecting their racket. Imagine making money off a procedure that is recommended to every single person at age 50 there is a lot of money of behind the scoping narrative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    My Doc recommends the annual "at home" poop test as an alternative to the probe.
    Something to think about with that:
    If you don’t have symptoms and have a colonoscopy as a screening test, the law requires that insurance covers it 100% from the first dollar. If you do the home test (ColoGuard) and it’s positive, the follow up colonoscopy is diagnostic, which means it’ll be applied to your deductible and copay. ColoGuard has components which test for cancer DNA and also for blood. So, if you have hemorrhoids that turn your ColoGuard positive, you’ll wind up paying the $5000 yourself.

  36. #36
    nesincg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreggB View Post
    I remember seeing 1 in a thousand as the number of perforations... The 'dreaded' cancerous polyps removed at age 50 would take 50 years to kill most people and they will be dead of something else before then.
    I cannot find any information to the numbers above. Would you please post references so people can make informed decisions? Everything you've posted so far seems more like conspiracy theory than science.

    "Association between screening colonoscopy and colorectal cancer mortality: In our sample, 24 (1.4%) cases and 120 (3.5%) controls had screening colonoscopy during the observation period. Compared with patients who did not receive endoscopic screening, those who received screening colonoscopy had a 67% lower risk of dying from any colorectal cancer." https://gut.bmj.com/content/67/2/291
    Last edited by nesincg; 04-06-2021 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Adding references
    The aviator formally known as 89.
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by nesincg View Post
    I cannot find any information to the numbers above. Would you please post references so people can make informed decisions? Everything you've posted so far seems more like conspiracy theory than science.

    "Association between screening colonoscopy and colorectal cancer mortality: In our sample, 24 (1.4%) cases and 120 (3.5%) controls had screening colonoscopy during the observation period. Compared with patients who did not receive endoscopic screening, those who received screening colonoscopy had a 67% lower risk of dying from any colorectal cancer." https://gut.bmj.com/content/67/2/291
    Iatrogenic colonic perforations (ICPs) are an infrequent but severe complication of colonoscopy. Globally, the incidence is estimated to be 0.016Ė0.8% for diagnostic colonoscopies and 0.02Ė8% for therapeutic colonoscopies [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10], but considering the increasing numbers of screening, diagnostic, and therapeutic colonoscopies being performed every year, the frequency of ICP is not insignificant [11, 12].
    https://wjes.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13017-018-0162-9
    You can average that out to agree with your predispositions either way. There is more evidence out there that scoping has a net negative effect on health, those with polyps removed are more likely to develop cancer, etc. As with everything that goes against the mainstream money machine it is well beyond page 5 in search results and there is no convincing people that have bought into the idea. Anyone that has been roofied and sodomized by a medical professional in the name of prevention is unlikely to accept the idea that it might not be a good idea. But for those few with an open mind I suggest they look a little harder. Again I'm not telling anyone what to do the go no go decision is everyone's to make for themselves.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreggB View Post
    Iatrogenic colonic perforations (ICPs) are an infrequent but severe complication of colonoscopy. Globally, the incidence is estimated to be 0.016–0.8% for diagnostic colonoscopies and 0.02–8% for therapeutic colonoscopies [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10], but considering the increasing numbers of screening, diagnostic, and therapeutic colonoscopies being performed every year, the frequency of ICP is not insignificant [11, 12].
    https://wjes.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13017-018-0162-9
    You can average that out to agree with your predispositions either way. There is more evidence out there that scoping has a net negative effect on health, those with polyps removed are more likely to develop cancer, etc. As with everything that goes against the mainstream money machine it is well beyond page 5 in search results and there is no convincing people that have bought into the idea. Anyone that has been roofied and sodomized by a medical professional in the name of prevention is unlikely to accept the idea that it might not be a good idea. But for those few with an open mind I suggest they look a little harder. Again I'm not telling anyone what to do the go no go decision is everyone's to make for themselves.
    "Perhaps tone was wrong" Yet it continues...

    Don't want the test, don't get it, just remember not to complain if you end up with what the procedure is looking to prevent and in the mean time have a nice life.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    "Perhaps tone was wrong" Yet it continues...

    Don't want the test, don't get it, just remember not to complain if you end up with what the procedure is looking to prevent and in the mean time have a nice life.
    Are we men? Can you not handle contrary information presented with comedy and rhetoric? Rhetoric and comedy have informed people, posting factual links on the internet never has. I only did as there was a direct request. Why do you have a problem with the idea of colonoscopies possibly being a net negative on health? America is one of the only places where it is widespread procedure done on most everyone at 50. Is the rest of the world dying at horribly higher rates of colon cancer?

  40. #40
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    I know of two people in my small town that had perforations and they were never the same. What's funny, I found out after the fact, that the doctor that did mine, caused at least one perforation. Makes me think that God must have a little say in how things work out.

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