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Brake Booster Options for Toe Brakes

FullThrottle

FullThrottle

FRIEND
Kenai AK & Houston TX
I have a 1953 PA18 that is a T Cub that came from the factory with toe brakes. I recently bought some 31 ABW on 6" Cleveland wheels to replace my Goodyear 26s. The brakes are "okay" on the 26s currently and will hold the airplane at full power on the ground, but I'm concerned with even less brake effectiveness with the 31s. I currently have Cleveland 30-60A double puck brakes (I know that Airframes Alaska sells a slightly different looking brake with this part number). I can't go with the Steve's boosters because I have toe brakes and not heel brakes...so I was wondering if anyone had any advice with a toe brake super cub and options with upgraded brakes? Thanks!
 
You may want to check with the manufactures of the three high pressure systems for regular Supercubs. Steve’s, Dakota Cub, and Airframes (North River). They may have dealt with this previously.


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For the toe brakes your best bet is to get ahold of Grove or Matco and get yourself a brake master cylinder that matches the overall length and throw of the original but is high pressure. The North River brake boosters and pretty much all the other cub type ones out there are meant to retrofit a Scott brake cylinder which your plane just doesn't have.

Legality is another beast entirely on the modification though. If you can find an approved/TSO/PMA cylinder like a Cleveland one out of a Cessna or perhaps if Grove makes one that's approved all the better. It's going to be a field approval most likely to upgrade your brake cylinders.
 
Steve Pierce said:
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When I built up my light weight cub with FSDO help I had the print of the T cub brakes which I didn't like. Harley Holt with FSDO said why not got with Scout brakes which is equal to or better and that is what I did. My CC-180 has Cubcrafter high pressure pedals with recess into fire wall to keep the location the same length as heel brakes.
I had 10k hours on heel brakes but would never do anything but toe brakes. Feels and acts like Cessna 185 brakes.
We don't have articulated heels! Just 337 and no engineer involved.

Sandy
 
Robbie Grove has a Tango Cub with toe brakes. It is the only Tango Cub I have flown with truly functional toe brakes. I am sure it is not STC’d, but our FSDO has been very nice about field approvals for Grove products. They trust his work.
 
If Robbie can come up with a set of masters to match your wheel cylinders and the geometry for the pedals, I could do a DER approval on the set up.


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dgapilot said:
If Robbie can come up with a set of masters to match your wheel cylinders and the geometry for the pedals, I could do a DER approval on the set up.


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Is there a way you can private message me your contact information? I didn't get a chance to call Grove today but if we do come up with a solution I'm very interested. If we get the DER approval then field approval should be fairly easy.
 
Once you get the DER approval you are done - no field approval required.
Also you will love the Grove masters - no "Lock-O-Seal" in there.
 
After speaking with a DER yesterday on a different issue, you still need to send in a form 337 for the modification. The brake mod would be affecting a control system which is defined as a major change and would need to be filed as such. A DER can pass through a field approval more easily because the FAA looks on them favorably in terms of knowing what they are doing but I'm pretty sure you still need an approved 337 for a mod like that.
 
Talked to another DER today. He said the DER can stamp block 3 and submit a form 8110 to show the engineering data is approved. Basically it's like having an STC where you still send in a 337 to notify of major change but unlike a field approval you don't need FAA response, the DER is approving the data.

Oh and there's different types of DER's who specialize in different areas and have different levels of authority. Not all DER's have the ability to approve engineering data and different modification types may require a DER who is specialized in that specific area (wings, fuselage, powerplant) to approve the data for said mod.
 
Before you get too far down the rabbit hole you may want to just try mounting the bushwheels and see how the brakes work, make sure you have all the air out of the system.
DENNY
 
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