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Thread: SHOW ME YOUR PANEL - Re-wiring my cub

  1. #1

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    SHOW ME YOUR PANEL - Re-wiring my cub

    Gents - looking to re-wire my cub this fall to include:

    1) Move the battery to underneath the seat, go to lightweight battery
    2) new panel - G5, Garmin Intercom/Radio + X-ponder w/ ADS-B (moving to the lower 48 - need), Garmin engine analyzer, round dials and place for my Garmin 660.
    3) LED lights all around, getting rid of the ridiculous tail beacon and installing something smaller on top of the tail

    Currently i have the heavyweight battery behind the rear baggage along w/ a whelen power pack, switches and relays in the wing root panel and a pretty jacked up looking panel with lots of extra wires from the previous guy who had tons of random stuff in the cockpit (CB radio, wildlife tracking equipment, etc.). Wondering if any of you guys have done something similar, have any tips, suggestions or changes you'd make the above. Also, post pictures of your panel so I can get a decent idea of what the rest of the bros are rocking! Thanks guys

    Cheers,
    Ryan
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  2. #2
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I take it you're a Garmin fan, lol. The battery move and LED lights are good calls. But you'll never have real estate to fit all the instruments and avionics in a normal panel. The minimum instrumentation for a certified Cub is tach, oil pressure, oil temperature, airspeed, altimeter, and compass. These all need to be certified primary. If you add anything to that package, it can be 'non certified'.
    To get all these instrument functions into a small panel you'll need to get multiple functions in one unit or get smaller individual units. If you want old school flight instruments, look at 2 1/4" gauges made by Winters. If you want the digital stuff, you'll need to look at something like the Garmin G3X or the Dynon Skyview. The G5 is a good unit but it has limited number of functions in one unit. For engine instruments, I'd recommend the CGR-30P over anything else. All engine systems in one package.
    For the avionics package, look at the Becker or Trig radios and transponders. Smallest package size with good functions. Use a NAT or PS Engineering intercom to give you a solid intercom system.

    If you're looking at new wire, gut the entire old electrical system. Starting from scratch is easier than patching together an existing system. When you move the battery under the seat, put a master relay on the battery tray. Move all switches and breakers to the instrument panel. Make the new master switch a double pole, single throw, switch wired as per any modern aircraft master switch. Weld a dedicated ground stud to the airframe near the battery for the ground strap. Use breaker switches for any system (such as lights) which are routinely turned on/off during operations. Push-pull breakers for everything else. Consider updating the charging system. I like the direct drive alternators that mount on the vacuum pump drive pad, but even the belt driven models are lighter weight and more dependable than the older stuff.

    And install new p-leads.

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    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  3. #3
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    Under seat battery, CGR30P, Garmin 696, Trig and Becker
    Forest of tabs for grounds, Panel mounted breakers and switch breakers to fit.
    New harness of course, use wire gauge chart. Wire, breakers etc sourced from B&C
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  4. #4

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    My Cub panel has a G3X Touch and a bunch of breakers. Radio and txp are remote. ADS-B and auto pilot are included. I like the display and function.

    If I was starting from scratch today Iíd probably lean toward dual Garmin GI-275s with an iPad running Garmin Pilot. One 275 as a primary attitude display and one as an engine monitor. Both can communicate with the iPad and Pilot app. Or an Aera of your choice if youíre an Apple hater. That would leave radios to do and with 2-1/4Ē choices that's simple.
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  5. #5
    nightflyer's Avatar
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    Trig radio and transponder, Garmin 796 in the pic but I have a 760 now, CGR30, and a RCA 2600 digital AI. Pretty basic.

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  6. #6
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Run a weight and balance and figure out 90% of your flying before moving the battery. I have moved several light weight batteries back to the stock location, saved weight and balanced a nose heavy Cub. Google "instrument panel site:supercub.org" and you will find some previous threads with lots of panel pictures as well.
    Steve Pierce

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    Dave Barras's Avatar
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    A little more than pretty basic but works really good.
    2nd the vote to gut and start fresh, much easier.
    Dave


    YOU NEVER KNOW

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    PA-12. Simple and Economical


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  9. #9

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    Whatever you do make it so you have a big access hole in the middle. this way when you need to pull a gauge or switch you can just reach in without having to lay on your back and drop stuff onto your face. Also not how OZONE has GPS sticking above the panel. Mine is even higher, you can push it up to the V bars usually with no problems. It really helps if you are scud running or have a lot of traffic to watch for (you will never see me with your ADS-B). You get some peripheral vision when dealing with the GPS/touchscreen. Use instrument nuts on everything!! Drop out switch panel is nice also.
    DENNY
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  10. #10
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Install a uAvionix AV-30C instead of a Garmin G-5. Lots of information, less expensive and installs in a 3 1/8 standard hole. I've found the Garmin 660 to be a good nav unit. I'd second the 2 1/4 inch radios.

    I'd also keep junk off the top of the panel. Only thing I like up there is a long, flat slip/skid ball.

    MTV

  11. #11
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    ... you can just reach in without having to lay on your back and drop stuff onto your face....

    DENNY
    Oh come on! Where's your flexibility Denny!?

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  12. #12

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    Fighting for Millimeters

    WIREWEINIE "For the avionics package, look at the Becker or Trig radios and transponders. Smallest package size with good functions. Use a NAT or PS Engineering intercom to give you a solid intercom system."



    I'm also re-doing a cub panel and looking at the Trig TY91 comm. radio. The data sheet for this radio indicates it has a built in intercom system. Is it limited in some way to warrant the addition of of a PS Engineering ICS for more "solid" performance?

    Thanks
    Last edited by bubb2; 03-19-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  13. #13
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I get some arguments but my point is that you will get better performance from a stand alone intercom than any of the built in intercoms. If you want more than two places you'll need an intercom as most built in systems are limited to two. If you need extra volume or need to adjust volume/vox squelch settings for open/closed windows and doors, use the knobs on the face of the intercom or go into the menu and change settings on the radio. Which is easier? With a separate intercom and radio you can simply turn the knobs to set radio and intercom volumes as needed. Also note that many of the built in systems allow all mics to go 'go hot' any time either PTT switch is activated. With an intercom system only the mic that corresponds with the PTT button activated with turn on. This is a simple way of eliminating some ambient noise during radio transmission.

    Web
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  14. #14
    cubdrvr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflyer View Post
    Trig radio and transponder, Garmin 796 in the pic but I have a 760 now, CGR30, and a RCA 2600 digital AI. Pretty basic.
    So how do you like the 760 vs. the 796? I love my 796 and need a good reason to change.
    "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"
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  15. #15
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    I get some arguments but my point is that you will get better performance from a stand alone intercom than any of the built in intercoms. If you want more than two places you'll need an intercom as most built in systems are limited to two. If you need extra volume or need to adjust volume/vox squelch settings for open/closed windows and doors, use the knobs on the face of the intercom or go into the menu and change settings on the radio. Which is easier? With a separate intercom and radio you can simply turn the knobs to set radio and intercom volumes as needed. Also note that many of the built in systems allow all mics to go 'go hot' any time either PTT switch is activated. With an intercom system only the mic that corresponds with the PTT button activated with turn on. This is a simple way of eliminating some ambient noise during radio transmission.

    Web
    Itís a cub. The trig intercom works good enough for a cub. I put a ptt and vox switch and a intercom ptt for the rear when the doors and windows are open.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    ... works good enough for a cub....

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    See how pissed you'd get if I was working on your aircraft and said that to you, lol!

    Web
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  17. #17
    nightflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdrvr View Post
    So how do you like the 760 vs. the 796? I love my 796 and need a good reason to change.
    I haven’t had a chance to fly with it yet since my engine ended up needing an overhaul right after I bought the 760. I’ve messed around with it a bit though and I’m not really sure it’s that much different from the 796. It is a little lighter and it can be updated via WiFi but those are the only advantages I’ve seen so far. I’ll give a better update once I get to use it in the air after my engine comes back.
    Last edited by nightflyer; 03-19-2021 at 06:59 PM.

  18. #18
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I really like it that Jason upgraded to the 760.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  19. #19
    nightflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I really like it that Jason upgraded to the 760.
    I’m glad my 796 went to a good home.
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  20. #20
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    SHOW ME YOUR PANEL - Re-wiring my cub

    Cheap way to get more.
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    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
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    Under seat battery, CGR30P, Garmin 696, Trig and Becker
    Forest of tabs for grounds, Panel mounted breakers and switch breakers to fit.
    New harness of course, use wire gauge chart. Wire, breakers etc sourced from B&C
    where does one find the wiring chart?

  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflyer View Post
    I’m glad my 796 went to a good home.
    The SpeedLane loves the new addition to the panel.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  23. #23
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercubrancher View Post
    where does one find the wiring chart?
    Each unit has it's own wiring diagram. It's up to the installer to make your connections correctly.

    Web
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercubrancher View Post
    where does one find the wiring chart?
    Bear hawk builder used the term wire GAUGE chart. In this case I think heís referring to the chart in AC43.13. That will line you out on your gauges vs. lengths of runs etc for anything you need to do.
    Not poking at you Wirewienie, I know youíre very aware of that. Just saw what seemed a bit of a misunderstanding.
    Good stuff here guys, as always. Love the expertise and different ideas/views. Keep em coming.

    Regards,
    Oz
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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by OzAK View Post
    Bear hawk builder used the term wire GAUGE chart. In this case I think heís referring to the chart in AC43.13. That will line you out on your gauges vs. lengths of runs etc for anything you need to do.
    Not poking at you Wirewienie, I know youíre very aware of that. Just saw what seemed a bit of a misunderstanding.
    Good stuff here guys, as always. Love the expertise and different ideas/views. Keep em coming.

    Regards,
    Oz
    That is what I figured. Can you post the chart for us or do I need to buy the book? The EAA webinars also refer to the AC43.13 book of lore.
    Thanks for the reply!

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  27. #27
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Here's a copy of the continuous flow chart. I added some color to try to make it easier to follow.

    Web
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  28. #28

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    Buy the book!

  29. #29
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Download the book!

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  30. #30

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    Open the link, send it to Kindle or Apple Books. Easy and free. Have it on your phone and/or tablet for future use.

  31. #31

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    Iíll second or third that motion! Download it, buy a hard copy, whatever make you happy and is most useful but if youíre fiddling around with GA airplanes and donít have a 43.13 around, you need to. Too much real world gotta know info there to not have it. It will help you do more things right and better than almost any publication on the subject at hand that available.


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  32. #32
    180TigerCub's Avatar
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    180HP PA-18
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  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
    I'm also re-doing a cub panel and looking at the Trig TY91 comm. radio. The data sheet for this radio indicates it has a built in intercom system. Is it limited in some way to warrant the addition of of a PS Engineering ICS for more "solid" performance?
    The built-in intercom works great for me.

    Iíve had the TY91 radio for six years with zero complaints, fully recommend it.

  34. #34

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    Ty91 ics

    Quote Originally Posted by akwing View Post
    The built-in intercom works great for me.

    Iíve had the TY91 radio for six years with zero complaints, fully recommend it.
    Does the TY91 built in intercom require a push to talk or is it voice activated?
    Thanks

  35. #35
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    You can set it for VOX or switch activated.

    And re read post #13

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  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    If you need extra volume or need to adjust volume/vox squelch settings for open/closed windows and doors, use the knobs on the face of the intercom or go into the menu and change settings on the radio. Which is easier?
    Web
    This is a valid point and shouldnít be readily dismissed if ease of use is a priority for you.

    Volume is easily adjustable with the built-in intercom, but not squelch. Will an external intercom allow for higher volume than the built-in?

    Iím pretty archaic on these things...if the passenger starts breaking squelch because of ambient noise, their headset gets unplugged - I never adjust squelch...maybe I would if it was easier.

  37. #37
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Installed the TY91 radio with intercom a few years ago. I rarely fly with anyone in the back until recently. Have had no issues with my original squelch settings and volume. I have been in the back some with either my wife or new employee up front. Also flew some folks on Saturday with the window open and switched the VOX off and used the intercom push to talk buttons I installed. I really like that feature.
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers

  38. #38
    Eferr's Avatar
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    I stand by the simplicity of this upgrade.


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  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eferr View Post
    I stand by the simplicity of this upgrade.
    nice panel

    whatís the ball looking thing on your v-brace?

  40. #40
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akwing View Post
    This is a valid point and shouldn’t be readily dismissed if ease of use is a priority for you.

    Volume is easily adjustable with the built-in intercom, but not squelch. Will an external intercom allow for higher volume than the built-in?

    I’m pretty archaic on these things...if the passenger starts breaking squelch because of ambient noise, their headset gets unplugged - I never adjust squelch...maybe I would if it was easier.
    A note specifically about volumes. If you have a stand alone intercom, the intercom volume is adjusted with the knob on the front of that intercom. In turn the radio volume is adjusted by the volume knob on the radio itself. This works well for some if you need to adjust these volumes independently. If you use a built in intercom, the intercom volume needs to be adjusted in the menu, not with a knob.

    Web
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