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External Load with my Experimental Super Cub

Mauleguy

Mauleguy

MEMBER
Does anyone know if there are regulations that would prohibit me from carrying an external load with my Experimental Super Cub if I hold the repairman certificate and I approve the operation. I live in the lower 48 (Washington State) if that makes a difference. I am interested in the regulation that says I can't... Not a no, it is not legal without anything to back up the statement.

Thank you,

Greg
 
Look at your operations limitations which were issued when the plane was certificated. There should be a statement to the effect "Any major changes need to be approved by the DAR". Your question to yourself would be "Is this a major alteration?". I know what my answer would be. :wink:
 
From my own operating limitations (para 12). I never paid much attention to it. Is this applicable for external loads?
 

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We give you permission.

I have a lot of yard art, chunks of timber, tree limbs, drift wood, and other junk that I have picked up and flown home over the years with the RANS (amazing what I can carry, and have yet to feel much if any difference in flight) via the lift struts, as their removal served two purposes: cleaning up/making better an off airport LZ, and as a souvenir. In fact I was watching one of your videos the other day and remember thinking, "I'd taken that tree branch with me...". The cat uses them as scratching posts.
 
dgapilot,

Are E-AB operating limitations standardized among DARS or does each DAR come up with his own? I presume there's a framework of required language but I have no idea how much (if any) variation there is in Op Lims between different DARS, different regions, etc. Other than my Phase 1 area boundaries I didn't have any input in my own limitations.
 
stewartb said:
dgapilot,

Are E-AB operating limitations standardized among DARS or does each DAR come up with his own? I presume there's a framework of required language but I have no idea how much (if any) variation there is in Op Lims between different DARS, different regions, etc. Other than my Phase 1 area boundaries I didn't have any input in my own limitations.
Click to expand...

All the boiler plate Operating Limitations are supposed to come out of Order 8130.2J. As of June last year, we all need to use a web based site for both the applicant (to fill out the 8130-6), and DATs or FAA Inspectors to complete the application and generate the certificate and operating limitations. The only variations are the geographic area for the Phase 1 flight testing, selecting day VFR, night, or IFR. And if to and landings can be done over populated areas. We also heave the option of imposing additional limitations in the interest of safety.


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Would someone mind educating me about where the operating limitations are found for an experimental aircraft. Also if they are filed and can be found with the FAA. PM me if you want. Thank you!
 
They were issued with the airworthiness certificate when the airplane was inspected. They are to be carried in the airplane at all times.
 
Kid Durango said:
Would someone mind educating me about where the operating limitations are found for an experimental aircraft. Also if they are filed and can be found with the FAA. PM me if you want. Thank you!
Click to expand...
As Skywagon said, they were issued with the Airworthiness Certificate, and are required to be in the airplane any time it is operated. Yes, the FAA Airworthiness File should have a copy there.
 
I asked this question to the Helena FSDO about 10 years ago. Here is the part of the inspector's reply that answers my question:

"......there is nothing in Part 91 that prohibits you from securing snowshoes or any other cargo to the wing struts of your experimental, Part 43 does not apply to experimental aircraft, so if there is nothing in the aircraft's operating limitations prohibiting you from doing it, there is no reason why you can't. Although I am sure I don't need to tell you, but if I didn't I wouldn't be doing my job, if you decide to do this please follow:
1) stay within the weight and balance limitations of the aircraft
2) secure the cargo in such a manner that it will not come off in flight and if it should come off in flight that it will not hit and damage the aircraft when it does.
3) Keep in mind the aerodynamics of the aircraft and don't position the cargo so that it will disrupt airflow over the wings, tail feathers or flight controls.
4) If you install any permanent type of rack or tie downs, please make a log book entry to document the installation.
 
spinner2 said:
I asked this question to the Helena FSDO about 10 years ago. Here is the part of the inspector's reply that answers my question:

"......there is nothing in Part 91 that prohibits you from securing snowshoes or any other cargo to the wing struts of your experimental, Part 43 does not apply to experimental aircraft, so if there is nothing in the aircraft's operating limitations prohibiting you from doing it, there is no reason why you can't. Although I am sure I don't need to tell you, but if I didn't I wouldn't be doing my job, if you decide to do this please follow:
1) stay within the weight and balance limitations of the aircraft
2) secure the cargo in such a manner that it will not come off in flight and if it should come off in flight that it will not hit and damage the aircraft when it does.
3) Keep in mind the aerodynamics of the aircraft and don't position the cargo so that it will disrupt airflow over the wings, tail feathers or flight controls.
4) If you install any permanent type of rack or tie downs, please make a log book entry to document the installation.
Click to expand...

I agree, but any airplane that’s gotten it’s Airworthiness certificate since February 2002 will have a limitation about operations with external stuff mounted and the need to flight test in that configuration.


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External loads are fun to observe, and I see some creative stuff. A couple of my neighbors strap motorcycles on their Cubs and fly into the boonies to ride. Pretty cool.
 
I remember in my youth, towing signs with an L-19. Had to move a bunch of signs from one place to another. 5 signs rolled up inside, one tied to each strut, and two tied to the turtle deck! Don’t think I’d do that today.


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Not my biggest or funkiest load, but the highest, 10K. This branch didn't need to be there, so I took it home and it leans up against the hangar wall with other picked up and flown out junk to this day. If I remember right, I had full camping gear plus my 50 pound ebike onboard that day.
 

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Interestingly TacAero just announced a “TacRack” for external loads.

Introducing the new TacRack. STC approved for all PA18 / CC18 model aircraft and will also fit on the CCX-2000, like BlackBird. Now you can pack more...stuff.

IMG_3851.JPG

Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 

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skywagon8a said:
Tie it to the jury struts.
Click to expand...

To be clear, I was joking.....especially as my eMontague fits inside, without intruding on the main baggage area further aft, and with room leftover underneath for more gear. Seeing some of the pictures in this thread made me want to try it, even if the weight wasn't the main issue, drag would be, plus the hassle of securing it while protecting the struts. I can be riding off (at 30 mph+) in 2.5-3 minutes after landing, and that includes unsecuring it. Besides, my struts are already occupied by a CF baggage pod, that's so streamlined I can't tell it's there.

Some of the new kitplanes out there, the RANS S-21 and the Bearhawk line in particular, suffer from a design deficiency for those of us who fly external loads, only 1 strut per side, useless!
 

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Here's a single strut wing.

iu
 
Have any of you strapped a Fold-a-Boat to a 12 or 18 on floats? If so, please post photos. I used to do it with the Beaver, but never tried it on a 12.
 
ktm.JPG
Here is my plan. I want to hang my KTM 300. Probably a lot like this although I will probably will build my own rack that has a ratchet system to raise and lower. I guess since I have the repairman's certificate I should be able to test and sign it off for flight.
 

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Paul Heinrich said:
Have any of you strapped a Fold-a-Boat to a 12 or 18 on floats? If so, please post photos. I used to do it with the Beaver, but never tried it on a 12.
Click to expand...
I've done it on a 185. One of the plastic ones folded, just tied it to the spreader bars. Flew it across Canada to Alaska and back, never knew it was there.
 
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