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Thread: DHC-2 Ownership Cost

  1. #41
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    The REAL turbine Otters have Garrett 331's, lol.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  2. #42

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    Beavers are a handful for a private operator. Big and heavy. You need equipment or a crew to handle it. My bro-in-law had one for a while. A nice one, too. Way too much plane for an empty nester private pilot. I always liken my 180 to a Suburban and my Cub to a 4 Runner. A Beaver is like a WW2 deuce and a half. Loud, drafty, smelly, and slow. Not a great choice for date night unless your date is with 6 other big guys.
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  3. #43

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    Don’t listen to the naysayers...a Beaver is just a big Cub! I’ve had the same PA18A for 33 years and operated a 185 for 20 years before trading up to a Beaver 7 years ago. There’s no doubt you’ll burn more gas but you’ll be flying with a big smile the whole time! For me I didn’t need a Beaver as much as I just wanted one...and I don’t need to justify my choice. Make sure you get a good one as there’s definitely some out there that have had a hard life. Hard to believe but I think the Beaver is lighter on the controls than the Cub, and almost as capable in tight spots. The biggest difference I find is the Beaver is more like a truck where the Cub is a motorcycle with wings. Good luck with your search...it’s only money!
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCB View Post
    Donít listen to the naysayers...a Beaver is just a big Cub! Iíve had the same PA18A for 33 years and operated a 185 for 20 years before trading up to a Beaver 7 years ago. Thereís no doubt youíll burn more gas but youíll be flying with a big smile the whole time! For me I didnít need a Beaver as much as I just wanted one...and I donít need to justify my choice. Make sure you get a good one as thereís definitely some out there that have had a hard life. Hard to believe but I think the Beaver is lighter on the controls than the Cub, and almost as capable in tight spots. The biggest difference I find is the Beaver is more like a truck where the Cub is a motorcycle with wings. Good luck with your search...itís only money!
    ^^^^^ This!

    We had a Briggs powered "Power Tow" at home base, KRNT, and a Bogert tow bar in the plane. Whenever we were at an away airport, there was ALWAYS an admirer that was happy to help push on a strut while I steered the T/W. Not that hard to move.

    They attract attention like no other plane I can think of. Lots of thumbs up from the corporate jet pilots as we taxied by.

    Kevin
    510PW


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #45

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    almost as capable in tight spots

  6. #46
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Even with my less than 500 hr experience I could put a Beaver on/in any spot I could a later C-185 with we'll over 10x the time. They are that good when properly equipped and the pilot aware. It's an amazing aircraft.

    Gary
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  7. #47
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    Beavers are cool

  8. #48
    SJ's Avatar
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    Really appreciating all the input folks. I'm buried with other things so I am largely letting Laura do all the research. We have recieved a lot of great additional info on specifc planes by email, facebook, pm, etc.

    I find it fascinating that it has never really "come up" much before that so many of you have owned or operated Beavers.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  9. #49
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Even with my less than 500 hr experience I could put a Beaver on/in any spot I could a later C-185 with we'll over 10x the time. They are that good when properly equipped and the pilot aware. It's an amazing aircraft.

    Gary
    In the mid seventies, I watched Charlie Coe ( Great pilot for Folsom's in Greenville Me) take 14 young boy scouts ( probably 100lb average weight) and two 18 ft cedar and canvas canoes out of Bear Pond (Rainbow twp) in north central me. I was in the pond with my old 39 j-3 fishing. The pond is deep, oblong in shape, and about 18 hundred ft. Only about 1500 is usable because of rocks and the tree line at that time was about 30ft. high at the lowest end where he went out. It wasn't even a challenge. He used about a third of it to break water and made it look easy. At the Greenville competitions I have seen him get it out of the water with a super cub easily.
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  10. #50
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
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    StewB,
    I commonly used to haul 3 passengers out of the old backwater where Upper Talarik runs into Lake Illamna, with Valhalla Lodges Kenmore Beaver.(1981/87)
    If it was too rough to land in big lake. It was measured 700'........... Try that with your Cub.... Course it's about dryed up there nowadays.LoL.
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  11. #51
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    Not meaning to get this thread off track, but how does the Noorduyn Norseman compare to the Beaver? Fabric verse metal of course, but a brute of a plane that has a big BA sounding radial also. One in Park Rapids, but rarely see it flown.
    Don't take life too seriously ... no one gets out alive!

  12. #52
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWhunter View Post
    Not meaning to get this thread off track, but how does the Noorduyn Norseman compare to the Beaver? Fabric verse metal of course, but a brute of a plane that has a big BA sounding radial also. One in Park Rapids, but rarely see it flown.
    A fairer comparison for the Norseman would be the Otter. They’re both larger than the Beaver, and much larger engines.

    MTV

  13. #53
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Short field? A Beaver?


  14. #54
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Short field? A Beaver?


    Laura flew in that plane when Russ owned it.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  15. #55

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  16. #56
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBR12 View Post
    Already sold
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  17. #57

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    If they are good, they’re gone��

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Even with my less than 500 hr experience I could put a Beaver on/in any spot I could a later C-185 with we'll over 10x the time. They are that good when properly equipped and the pilot aware. It's an amazing aircraft.

    Gary
    I flew Beavers for lodges years ago. At one lodge we operated periodically out of Shannons pond in Dillingham, about 1500 feet long as I recall. One operator would haul only one or two guests with luggage with a 185. With the Beavers we would regularly haul at full gross weight. They are very different planes for different purposes.
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  19. #59
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I went into Shannon's a few times with a C-185 but well loaded @ ~3600+ preferred Aleknagik Lake. My Beaver experience was limited and consisted of mainly heavy Dehavilland wheel skis and 4930 floats @ ~5100. I flew some on tires and was pleased with the full flap ~65 approach and landing on bar strips. Plain wing - stalls were real. Now there's all manner of wing mods I see locally.

    An earlier POH with some performance charts: https://washingtonseaplanepilots.org...Beaver-POH.pdf

    Gary
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  20. #60
    L18C-95's Avatar
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    A Broussard is a nice mil-spec DHC-2 substitute

    https://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=48515


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  21. #61
    L18C-95's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    A nice DHC-2 UK resident


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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by L18C-95 View Post
    A Broussard is a nice mil-spec DHC-2 substitute

    https://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=48515


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
    I think they come with a wine rack

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  23. #63
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    I think they come with a wine rack

    Glenn
    And a cheese tray for snax

    Tyler Cook owned one locally for a few years. Not sure but I heard the FAA liked to do periodic drive-bys as it was licensed in a weird category - exhibition something? Anyhow it eventually disappeared south along with the owner.

    Gary

  24. #64

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    The AD's are the biggest cost and pain on the Beaver. Viking has the TC and when they are slow they soon dream up a few more. In their defence there are many high time salt water Beavers and some bush ones that haven't had much maintenance over the years. Some AD's are quite expensive. In the about 10 years we have had ours the main cost is in AD's. The Canadian regs have about 4 times as many AD's. The US didn't adopt many of them so much better id US registered. We burn around the 22 gal in cruise which doesn't sound bad but it takes more than 5 gals to warm her up on a cool day. Ours is on the big Aerocet about 20 knots slower than a 185 or 206 on floats so fine on short flights but something to consider if your going long haul. Ours just turned over 4000 hours and other than a carb heat gauge we haven't put a thing on it other than normal maintenance since we got it. You really need someone that is very familiar with Beavers to do a pre-buy if your looking at one. There are many things to check that a Cessna or Cub guy would never find that are 10's of thousand to fix. Take your time and find a really good one. They are out there for sure just not advertised. They are kind of an old mans airplane as everything happens in slow motion. Engine management is the only learning curve as nothing the same as an opposed engine.
    The Norseman is kind of the opposite. Almost no AD's and no new ones as not many in the air to create them. Flies lot like an overloaded 185 and just as fast. Approach speeds are 90-100 compared to 70 in the Beaver. The ultimate for hauling boats. Other than a bit slower hardly any opposite rudder with a 16ft Lund. Boats are latched from the float to the steel wing struts which keeps the boat out of the slipstream. Good manners on the water so okay for private use. Just as loud on the inside as the outside.
    While the Beaver is a wonderful plane to fly in a lot of ways the Norseman is much cheaper to buy and own for private guys and will haul a load a Beaver wouldn't dream of. For the same money I would buy a primo Norseman long before I bought a bagged out Beaver. Click image for larger version. 

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  25. #65
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    A Noorsman is a lot more classy than a Beaver.
    N1PA
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  26. #66
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    Norseman even harder to find than a Beaver!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  27. #67
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    Norseman even harder to find than a Beaver!

    sj
    Look in Red Lake Ontario, the Noorsman capitol of the World.
    I still say any model of the Stinson Reliant would give the same thrill for less cost. Remember many of those old airplanes are out of the FAA's line of sight, so AD notes don't show up.
    N1PA

  28. #68
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Look in Red Lake Ontario, the Noorsman capitol of the World.
    I still say any model of the Stinson Reliant would give the same thrill for less cost. Remember many of those old airplanes are out of the FAA's line of sight, so AD notes don't show up.
    Just say'n the lady wants a Beaver... likely no substitue will qualify

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  29. #69
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    Just watched the video of the short field landing, our Beaver with the Barron 3000 kit and turbine slows to 42 kts on short final and when pulled into beta just stops. Never measured it but short. T/o when light it leaves the ground before you get to Take off thrust. Amazing aircraft, I often wonder if the bigger company’s didn’t have a hand in some of the over the edge AD’s to eliminate some of the competition in the commercial markets. It’s hard on operators to take a bird off line in season to do AD’s.
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  30. #70
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I've had several old guys tell me that the horsepower from the turbine conversions on -2s and -3s should have been there all along. It was just not available, for the weight, from the piston engines at the time.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  31. #71
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Our’s is a MK 3 , with a -20, everybody wants a -27 or 34 engine for even more hp but for my boss it’s a play airplane and perfect. The stretched fuselage is a game changer with the changed angle of incident on the wings and tail and cuff on the wings. It flys so rock stable under 50 Kts. Makes short field landings a breeze.

  32. #72
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Oh, forgot to mention ours is a MK3 factory Turbine not a conversion. I think it was the second to last one made.this changes things for some of the bigger maintenance items for the good.

  33. #73

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    I been told that the original PT6 was a dog, especially on hot and high days. Rumor has it they wouldn’t even get off the water before hitting the redline temperatures. Even the -20 upgrade suffered the same problem.

    The choices now are -27 and -135, I think. Those are the same power plants that Vazar, Viking, and Kenmore use to turbine an Otter.

    I strongly believe that a piston Beaver on EDO 4930s and powered by a 985 was and remains the best all-around airplane for remote camping, hunting, and fishing, either alone or with your pals. A Beaver on floats is no problem whatsoever for one person to manage in the air or on the water.

    As I pointed out, as prices climb on 2 seat ragwings, Beaver ownership and operation by a private owner starts to make more sense. On the plus side, you can share your secret fishing hole with 3-4 of your friends with all their gear (and the hundies in their wallets to share the cost of fuel) all in one trip.

    I bought mine from Desert Locust for $110,000. That, a paint job and a Kenmore interior put me behind the yoke for under $150,000. The bank returned my collateral 3 months into the loan after they appraised it at $435,000, which I then used to buy the floats. In effect the bank financed it and my first PA12 100%. It was the best investment I ever made and owning 66B were the best years of my life.

    I’m thankful I bought it in my mid-30s. Had I waited until I turned 50 or retired I never would have been able to buy or enjoy it given my health problems.

    So SJ, pull the trigger and don’t look back if it will make you and your bride happy. I never heard anyone say they regretted owning a piston Beaver.
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  34. #74

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    Were I in the market today, the first thing I would do would be to send a personal, hand written card to Harrison Ford and politely inquire if he would like to liquidate some or one of his toys that see little use or if he knows one that might be for sale.

    It can’t hurt to ask. The only dumb questions are those that aren’t asked.
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  35. #75
    mvivion's Avatar
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    The Beaver I flew in Kodiak was sold by the government at auction in 1985-ish for $22,400 on Bristol 4580 amphibious floats. All operating mechanisms in the floats had been replaced the winter before. Plane was basically original stock civilian model. Engine had a cracked accessory case, which id been flying with for some time. Buyer flew it to Kenmore and traded floats for 4930s an overhauled engine. Prop was like new. He then leased it out for years. He told me once that plane made him a LOT of money.

    Back then, everybody was buying shiny new Cessna 206s, and Beavers were cheap.

    Plane is now back in Kodiak, working for a living, as always.

    MTV

  36. #76
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    If you just wants ride around behind a round engine the Norseman might be a consideration? But there is a dam good reason you won't see one in Shannon's Pd or Slop Bucket Lake....... I am guessing your looking for a " Big Cub" sorta airplane. The Beaver will scratch that itch. A good lite one on 4930's with the big Ag Blade is at the top
    Of the heap in STOL floatplanes. If you simply want to ride behind a round engine buy a Cessna 195? It's not STOL but it is Cool........
    Having flown lots of different Beavers, there are dogs, there are good ones on the wrong floats and props, there
    are good ones, and there are " really good ones". If you think you have a crush on your Cub, get behind an R985
    In a lite Kenmore Beaver, and you will have a true love affair with an airplane! Lol.
    Rumor has it SAS in Talkettna is selling theirs.......
    (Sheldon's old outfit). Might wanta check it out.
    Good Luck!
    E
    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 03-16-2021 at 01:50 AM.
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  37. #77
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    https://alaskaslist.com/1/posts/10_T..._1_Beaver.html...

    Previous owner had it restored. Very nice.

    Gary
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  38. #78
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    https://alaskaslist.com/1/posts/10_T..._1_Beaver.html...

    Previous owner had it restored. Very nice.

    Gary
    1500 hours on the engine. Add the cost of an overhaul.
    N1PA
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  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    https://alaskaslist.com/1/posts/10_T..._1_Beaver.html...

    Previous owner had it restored. Very nice.

    Gary
    How long since that rebuild???

    Not being critical, but ski flying can be brutal on an airframe. Worth looking at, but the price is actually more in the $370,000 range because the engine will get swapped once it arrives home.

    I totally understand the desire for a specific plane. Right now is a GREAT time to buy a beaver in the market. Alaska companies are struggling. Some got loans and such last year and held on, even improved their fleet. Now they are asking what will happen next year?

    The Birdcage AD and service bulletins need to be reviewed before getting serious about a particular plane. Big dollars if they need removed for repair.

    I would suggest NOT the big paddle prop. You are not looking at big loads on short lakes, and the paddle props shake like mad coming down in the idle area... not a good thing for instructing.

    Alaska Aircraft Sales has an older beaver sitting for sale. Been there for a while, price might be reasonable. No clue on condition.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  40. #80
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Man, I’d take a Hamilton Standard prop with AG 200 blades any day. Get it properly balanced and it’ll hum.....and sing. Only reason Kenmore got the three bladed props approved was to please whiny neighbors.

    MTV
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