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Thread: DHC-2 Ownership Cost

  1. #121
    cafi19's Avatar
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    We need the jeopardy music here. We have one that we are interested in....but as you know....everything is complicated right now. We will let you know when we know something interesting. I appreciate all the feedback and encouragement. You all are the best!

    cafi
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  2. #122
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    Laura here is a sneak peek at the May/June issue of Flying Magazine.Its a message to you and Steve to act now The pilot in the Beaver is from right here in Exeter, Maine. He moved to Seatle to chase a dream of flying planes like his grand dad did. Started washing planes at Kenmore, then lugging bags and so on. Now is one of ther pilots/instructors Hes a great kid, he took my daughter to the prom when she was in high scool. Pretty impressive Quinn Dillon, were all proud of you

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  3. #123

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    Stay away from the PZL Beaver that has been for sale forever. Also, I wouldn’t pursue one with the Baron wing mod. Beaver wing mods are totally unnecessary.

    “Very” recent birdcage, prop inspections, engine hours, and AD/SB “retirements,” not just “compliance,” are paramount.

    Don't be fooled by lipstick on a pig. And don’t buy one that has EVER been underwater.
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  4. #124
    cafi19's Avatar
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    Yes. Don't like lipstick on my pigs for sure. Dont think I have seen PZL but if so...may have already eliminated it. A lot of the ones for sale are ready for overhauls. And while that wont eliminate it entirely....it would be nicer to have one ready to fly when we get it. It will already take a while to get the airworthiness stuff worked out, sounds like.

    I am not familiar with the Baron wing mod. What does that entail and why undesirable?

    Thanks for the info!!!

  5. #125

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    We have a friend with a flock of them, you need to come over and pick his brain.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  6. #126
    cafi19's Avatar
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    Does he have any nice ones that he is ready to part with?

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafi19 View Post
    Does he have any nice ones that he is ready to part with?
    I can ask, the family owns and operates a flying service in Canada.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafi19 View Post
    Does he have any nice ones that he is ready to part with?
    My god girl get a hold of yourself

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 04-06-2021 at 02:35 PM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  9. #129
    cafi19's Avatar
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    Ha!

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafi19 View Post
    Yes. Don't like lipstick on my pigs for sure. Dont think I have seen PZL but if so...may have already eliminated it. A lot of the ones for sale are ready for overhauls. And while that wont eliminate it entirely....it would be nicer to have one ready to fly when we get it. It will already take a while to get the airworthiness stuff worked out, sounds like.

    I am not familiar with the Baron wing mod. What does that entail and why undesirable?

    Thanks for the info!!!

    The Barron (I think that's how its spelled) wing mod is a BIG deal. Changes the angle of incidence of the wing, shape, and adds some "gadgets". This mod was developed to improve the "turning" characteristics of the Beaver wing. A lot of pilots killed themselves in tight turning situations (as in a canyon turn) by trying to turn tight without using flaps.

    The flaps on a Beaver require that you reach down and select "flaps down" on the selector, then pump them down with a separate lever. That takes some time, so it's not something you do on the spur of the moment.

    When I was checked out in the Beaver by Jack Corey, who'd flown most of the deHavilland "bush birds" a LOT, he made me turn and turn and turn that airplane, at altitude, with and without flaps. Without flaps, it was never pretty. With flaps, the thing turns like a Cub, really tight and very safe.

    But, if you wait till you need to turn, there's a lot of monkey motion to get the flaps out....

    I agree with Paul, you don't need the Barron wing, and it's probably going to represent a pretty big bump in price. That wing may improve stall characteristics some, but in my experience, the Beaver is a nice stalling airplane to begin.

    Full disclosure: I've never flown a Barron wing.

    MTV
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  11. #131
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    This is great info, folks! We really appreciate all the texts, private messages, emails, etc!

    What we really need to do is find someone who wants to downsize to a nice 55' C-180

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  12. #132
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    Our Beaver has the Barron Kits complete: wings, leading edges, droop aeilrons, leading edges, wing tips. Angles of both the wing and tail are changed. Also electric Hyd. pump for faster flaps. Stretched fuselage double cargo doors. Excellent slow flight ,45 KT on final no problem. The Turbine beaver has a PT-6 and can sit around all the time no problem at all. We fly less than 50 hrs a year. The SHP VARIES between 600 and about 900 depending on the series. The Otter mostly has other turbines than than the PT-6 and around 1000 hp.on the better mods. The bird cage inspection is going for over $30,000. So I’m told, not sure.

  13. #133
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    Also forgot, Kenmore is good to do business with, not cheap, but good . Viking is also the same, but will help you also. We personally didn’t enjoy doing business with Mr. Olson , just us, disclaimer. He has a Hugh store of parts though. Great northern in Anchorage is another go source of maintenance infro. Hope this helps.
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  14. #134

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    With absolutely no disrespect towards stewartb’s opinion, I completely disagree with everything said in this post. Date night was one of the best perks. A full sized bed with summer satin or silk sheets or flannel if it’s cold is first class love nest travel. Or just use a bunch of couch cushions and let the wave action enhance the performance. And remember it’s not how deep you fish but rather how you wiggle your worm. Wave action does wonders. Also it comes with a built in 18” diameter toilet hole through the bottom for ladies bathroom breaks. Add a short taxi to clean water and you both can dive in and wash away any regret, stds, crabs, and whatever.

    It’s a one man plane on floats and wheels. You don’t need a deckhand to catch or let you go. Turning it on wheels is remarkably easy. Main Fueling is done at belly button level and the tips can be fill by walking on the wing rivet lines, as can sweeping the snow off the wings.
    Of course IMHO. An Otter is harder but not impossible as a solo.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Beavers are a handful for a private operator. Big and heavy. You need equipment or a crew to handle it. My bro-in-law had one for a while. A nice one, too. Way too much plane for an empty nester private pilot. I always liken my 180 to a Suburban and my Cub to a 4 Runner. A Beaver is like a WW2 deuce and a half. Loud, drafty, smelly, and slow. Not a great choice for date night unless your date is with 6 other big guys.
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  15. #135
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    Jack Corey told me once tha in his opinion, every seaplane pilot should learn to fly seaplanes in an Otter, or at the very least, a Beaver.

    His theory was that too many pilots who learned to fly seaplanes in a Cub THINK they can manhandle a seaplane, but they’re wrong. Flying a bigger seaplane teaches you to finesse the plane on the water, and that’s a skill set that works equally well in any seaplane.

    The Beaver is easily handled by one person, but it has to be finessed. Brute force and awkwardness will get you run over. Or worse.

    MTV
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  16. #136

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    I agree Beavers are good training planes on floats, but for different reasons. A Beaver is incredibly stable, massive, and predictable. It takes a lot of mismanagement to screw something up on TO or ldg. It auto corrects minor foibles and warns you before the big ones.

    Consequently, you are forced into learning how a floatplane should perform without making the mistakes that would otherwise scare ragwing pilots. After the lesson the pilot is told this is how it’s suppose to look and feel. Now you get your little plane to do the same thing.

    Beavers are very forgiving. I would be more afraid that a Beaver lesson would make the pilot overconfident in a small plane.

    Those of you who are in a big FBO or private flight club should rent a beaver for the summer and get everyone checked out and then go explore the Bush as far as the fuel will carry you.
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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    I agree Beavers are good training planes on floats, but for different reasons. A Beaver is incredibly stable, massive, and predictable. It takes a lot of mismanagement to screw something up on TO or ldg. It auto corrects minor foibles and warns you before the big ones.

    Consequently, you are forced into learning how a floatplane should perform without making the mistakes that would otherwise scare ragwing pilots. After the lesson the pilot is told this is how it’s suppose to look and feel. Now you get your little plane to do the same thing.

    Beavers are very forgiving. I would be more afraid that a Beaver lesson would make the pilot overconfident in a small plane.

    Those of you who are in a big FBO or private flight club should rent a beaver for the summer and get everyone checked out and then go explore the Bush as far as the fuel will carry you.
    Like a Stearman, pussycat as long as you keep it purring.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  18. #138
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    Paul,

    Im talking about beaching in a strong current, docking in a wind, and current, etc.

    MTV
    Last edited by mvivion; 04-09-2021 at 08:11 AM.
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  19. #139

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    I’ve never flown a Beaver on floats, biggest thing is a 206 for me. I found that airplanes on floats were easier than boat hulls in wind. At least the wing and tail generally are above the dock. Things like an LA-4 or Sea Bee with sponsons were much harder to dock. The LA-4 especially since it didn’t have reverse and the wings are so low.


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  20. #140

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    Taxiing a Beaver up to the dock in the wind and/or current is usually easy. The hard part is getting out and securing it to the dock before it floats away. Scrambling out of the pilot door is a practiced maneuver that has the potential of being quite embarrassing and occasionally wet. Especially when the dock/shore is on the right side.
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  21. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyk View Post
    Taxiing a Beaver up to the dock in the wind and/or current is usually easy. The hard part is getting out and securing it to the dock before it floats away. Scrambling out of the pilot door is a practiced maneuver that has the potential of being quite embarrassing and occasionally wet. Especially when the dock/shore is on the right side.
    Tell me about embarrassing and wet! On my seaplane check ride in the LA-4, I docked to a floating raft. When I pushed off, the raft went back instead of the airplane, and I went into the water!. This was in December upstate NY. It was COLD! Even with that, I got the rating.
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  22. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyk View Post
    Taxiing a Beaver up to the dock in the wind and/or current is usually easy. The hard part is getting out and securing it to the dock before it floats away. Scrambling out of the pilot door is a practiced maneuver that has the potential of being quite embarrassing and occasionally wet. Especially when the dock/shore is on the right side.
    Depends on the floats and water rudders. The Aerocet floats have small water rudders that are completely inadequate to manage once the wind starts gettting above 25 knots. A bunch of the private operators have put on larger water rudders and as a result they have a lot more rudder authority. OAS won't do that unless there is an STC for the larger water rudders...which there isn't...so it can be pretty challenging for some operations.

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Hamon View Post
    Depends on the floats and water rudders. The Aerocet floats have small water rudders that are completely inadequate to manage once the wind starts gettting above 25 knots. A bunch of the private operators have put on larger water rudders and as a result they have a lot more rudder authority. OAS won't do that unless there is an STC for the larger water rudders...which there isn't...so it can be pretty challenging for some operations.
    Back in my day, I whined about the size of the EDO 4580 rudders to OAS Maint. When I came back to pick up the plane after 100 hr, voila! New big rudders! No mention, and didn’t ask.

    Times change.

    MTV
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  24. #144
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    Laura, I feel you are letting Steve drag his feet here. Crack the whip! We should be half way into the AWC by now.
    When everything is going wrong, and the world is bearing down on you.......GO FULL THROTTLE!!!
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  25. #145
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1FCA74D2-FACD-4A28-8B82-CA2E35A13111.jpg 
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ID:	55326Here’s a day with the beaver. Work for 30 minutes to get the monster out of the hangar, then pull 20 blades through to get rid of hydraulic lock, add a gallon of oil, sump 5 tanks, assess the oil leaking from everywhere, add 10lbs to a tail wheel that looks like it came off a train, climb 2 flights of stairs, say a few choice words to cover the oil on your jeans, pump the wobble pump, reach down and pump the primer, say a few more choice words to cover the fuel all over your jeans, push the mixture forward, crack the throttle, hit the master, hold the starter for 3 blades and flip the mags. Now wait what seems like an eternity for the oil pressure to start coming up only to notice the oil temp gauge is busted, say a few more choice words, pull the mixture, shut off the mags, flip the master, climb down 2 flights of stairs, more oil on jeans and now on shirt, throw the empty oil gallon jug at hangar to release some pressure, spend 30 minutes getting monster back in hangar, get in car, go home and listen to how this one broke this one’s lego toy.
    When everything is going wrong, and the world is bearing down on you.......GO FULL THROTTLE!!!
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  26. #146

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    Most of us would give up rather important anatomical components to have your problems...
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  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayou Navigator View Post
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ID:	55326Here’s a day with the beaver. Work for 30 minutes to get the monster out of the hangar, then pull 20 blades through to get rid of hydraulic lock, add a gallon of oil, sump 5 tanks, assess the oil leaking from everywhere, add 10lbs to a tail wheel that looks like it came off a train, climb 2 flights of stairs, say a few choice words to cover the oil on your jeans, pump the wobble pump, reach down and pump the primer, say a few more choice words to cover the fuel all over your jeans, push the mixture forward, crack the throttle, hit the master, hold the starter for 3 blades and flip the mags. Now wait what seems like an eternity for the oil pressure to start coming up only to notice the oil temp gauge is busted, say a few more choice words, pull the mixture, shut off the mags, flip the master, climb down 2 flights of stairs, more oil on jeans and now on shirt, throw the empty oil gallon jug at hangar to release some pressure, spend 30 minutes getting monster back in hangar, get in car, go home and listen to how this one broke this one’s lego toy.
    And this may be why the feet are dragging....

    sj
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  28. #148
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    I can't honestly blame SJ. He is a peach! Maybe we are just not fat enough cats to enter into this dream world. The timing is good and the timing is bad. Lots in Canada...but you just cant see them before you buy them. Hmmm....that sounds like fun.

    Then...once you buy it and fly it (assuming that you can with the ADs) then you decide it's time to sell it....it could take a while, tying up those assets for longer....and paying the high insurance costs all the while. It is still on the table....but we are taking our time and thinking through all the plusses and minuses.

    I am super skiddish right now though.

    cafi
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  29. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Back in my day, I whined about the size of the EDO 4580 rudders to OAS Maint. When I came back to pick up the plane after 100 hr, voila! New big rudders! No mention, and didn’t ask.

    Times change.

    MTV
    Yes, that would be nice. But OAS seems to have fully transitioned to only super-duper-certificated airplanes and processes. They will not consider anything that is not fully documented via STC at minimum. No field approvals. Mostly it works fine, but for a larger water rudder, nobody else seems to think this is an issue worthy of raising. So they all have bigger water rudders. Small issue in the grand scheme except for a few days in a few places...

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Hamon View Post
    Yes, that would be nice. But OAS seems to have fully transitioned to only super-duper-certificated airplanes and processes. They will not consider anything that is not fully documented via STC at minimum. No field approvals. Mostly it works fine, but for a larger water rudder, nobody else seems to think this is an issue worthy of raising. So they all have bigger water rudders. Small issue in the grand scheme except for a few days in a few places...
    It figures. I was sternly cautioned when I picked up that plane with the larger rudders that there was a good reason EDO didn't install larger water rudders on those 4580 floats. With a load, those bigger rudders would permit you to get into a situation you really didn't want to be in.

    As always, it was expected that I'd use some judgement. Only scared myself a couple times.

    MTV

  31. #151
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    Sometimes someone will grind down the L<>R rudder stops to get more......action. Once the front portion of the rudder gets water pressure from excess taxi speed it can swing on its own to the new stop. Spins a circle when not wanted. Was told by a friend.

    Gary
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  32. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak49flyer View Post
    Most of us would give up rather important anatomical components to have your problems...
    I was not describing a problem, but rather the fruitful joys of beaver ownership.
    When everything is going wrong, and the world is bearing down on you.......GO FULL THROTTLE!!!
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  33. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayou Navigator View Post
    I was not describing a problem, but rather the fruitful joys of beaver ownership.
    Exactly- hence my response

  34. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayou Navigator View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1FCA74D2-FACD-4A28-8B82-CA2E35A13111.jpg 
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ID:	55326Here’s a day with the beaver. Work for 30 minutes to get the monster out of the hangar, then pull 20 blades through to get rid of hydraulic lock, add a gallon of oil, sump 5 tanks, assess the oil leaking from everywhere, add 10lbs to a tail wheel that looks like it came off a train, climb 2 flights of stairs, say a few choice words to cover the oil on your jeans, pump the wobble pump, reach down and pump the primer, say a few more choice words to cover the fuel all over your jeans, push the mixture forward, crack the throttle, hit the master, hold the starter for 3 blades and flip the mags. Now wait what seems like an eternity for the oil pressure to start coming up only to notice the oil temp gauge is busted, say a few more choice words, pull the mixture, shut off the mags, flip the master, climb down 2 flights of stairs, more oil on jeans and now on shirt, throw the empty oil gallon jug at hangar to release some pressure, spend 30 minutes getting monster back in hangar, get in car, go home and listen to how this one broke this one’s lego toy.
    If only there was a substance that could be put on a plane and oil would come off... we could call it 'soap'. And if only people would use the mythical 'soap' on occasion... In fact, isn't there something about cleaning the plane and inspecting the skin on occasion?

    Yes, I have cleaned the beaver's belly. It is embarrassing to have a plane dripping oil from everywhere. Sounds cool, but in reality it is ugly. Only takes 40 or so minutes if you keep up on it.

    That said, you think it is easy pulling into a dock all the time? Not every place is open with headwind and against the current, sometimes you get a current coming out from under the dock pushing you out and a wind on the tail twisting you away and into the boat ahead.

    On the ground, one person can not move it. A big tug, 4 wheeler needs lots of weight to keep from slipping. Stupid to think they are easy.

    That said, with just a little planning, they are a kick! Some of the best flying Lyn and I have done was in the Gullwing coming across the country.

    If Kirby can set you up with and Ike plane, just buy it! Ike will tell you the skinny, and be honest. He will be better than a pre-buy, I bet he knows every rivet and gusset by name on every bird!!

    As an investment, a solid beaver is probably as good as any. If you have a place that you can rent it for students, there will be lots of interest. Many people want to fly one. If you offer it, they will come.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  35. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    If only there was a substance that could be put on a plane and oil would come off... we could call it 'soap'. And if only people would use the mythical 'soap' on occasion... In fact, isn't there something about cleaning the plane and inspecting the skin on occasion?

    Yes, I have cleaned the beaver's belly. It is embarrassing to have a plane dripping oil from everywhere. Sounds cool, but in reality it is ugly. Only takes 40 or so minutes if you keep up on it.

    That said, you think it is easy pulling into a dock all the time? Not every place is open with headwind and against the current, sometimes you get a current coming out from under the dock pushing you out and a wind on the tail twisting you away and into the boat ahead.

    On the ground, one person can not move it. A big tug, 4 wheeler needs lots of weight to keep from slipping. Stupid to think they are easy.

    That said, with just a little planning, they are a kick! Some of the best flying Lyn and I have done was in the Gullwing coming across the country.

    If Kirby can set you up with and Ike plane, just buy it! Ike will tell you the skinny, and be honest. He will be better than a pre-buy, I bet he knows every rivet and gusset by name on every bird!!

    As an investment, a solid beaver is probably as good as any. If you have a place that you can rent it for students, there will be lots of interest. Many people want to fly one. If you offer it, they will come.
    Just wait till you’re cleaning the belly after running a b17 for the first time in a few years. Talk about acreage


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  36. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Just wait till you’re cleaning the belly after running a b17 for the first time in a few years. Talk about acreage


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    I was at an airshow sporting the new white shirt from the show when a BT13 needed a jump start. Battery is right behind the exhaust on the right side. She fired up and I prematurely went to remove the jumper cables while it was still burping oil out the exhaust pipe. Instant work shirt.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  37. #157
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Just wait till you’re cleaning the belly after running a b17 for the first time in a few years. Talk about acreage


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I was at an airshow sporting the new white shirt from the show when a BT13 needed a jump start. Battery is right behind the exhaust on the right side. She fired up and I prematurely went to remove the jumper cables while it was still burping oil out the exhaust pipe. Instant work shirt.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  38. #158
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    My best oil story. Back in 99 I flew my Pa11 out to Grassroots flyin in Brodhead Wi. I got there early and why wondering around a red TravelAir biplane flew in and parked. It was dripping oil from stem to stern. Pilot took his gear out of the front seat and threw it on the ground. One big garbage bag got dumped and it was full of old rags.Pilot started cleaning off oil so I grabbed a handful of rags and started from the back wiping off oil, it was everywhere. Took us over an hour and when we got done he said jump in the front and let's go make it dirty again. Awesome low level field and river run for almost an hour. Later that night the pilot and I were sipping beers by the fire and I asked his name. Hi I'm Robbie Bach, Richard Bach's son

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  39. #159
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I swap wings on Stew Mcpherson's Luscombe. Richards wingman in the Bi-Plane book.

    Worst oil story was break loose an oil line on a Corsair upstream of the oil tank. From memory I think it was 30 gallons or so.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  40. #160
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I always laugh when the subject of oil comes up with regard to radial engines. The old argument that if a radial isn't using oil, there's something wrong with it....etc.

    The R-985 in the Beaver has an oil tank that sits between the pilot and copilot's feet/knees. That tank holds, if memory serves, about 6 gallons of oil. Let's compare that to an O-320: The 985 has three times the displacement, and about three times the rated power. The max oil quantity of the O-320 is eight quarts, or two gallons....the 985 carries three times that. So far, so good.

    Now, if a 320 uses say, a quart every ten to fifteen hours, why wouldn't a 985 use about a gallon over the same period?

    And, as we all know, a LITTLE bit of oil thrown makes a HUGE mess. It's all proportional, basically.

    In the Beaver I flew in Kodiak, I always carried a 1.5 gallon jug of engine oil. Sort of like carrying a quart or two in a Super Cub. One winter, our maintenance folks needed to do some work on my airplane, so I flew it up to Anchorage for the work. They handed me the keys to a newly refurbished Beaver that'd just been completely re-worked in the Seattle area, including an overhauled engine.

    When I arrived in Kodiak with that plane, I noticed it had a single quart can of oil in the baggage compartment. I had to laugh. But, over the next few weeks, I found myself adding just a quart of oil every once in a while. That engine was really tight.

    The locals familiar with radials told me they wouldn't trust that engine....sorta jokingly. But, it ran fine, and very clean.

    A couple months later, I flew that plane back to ANC and picked up my regular ride. Back to a 1.5 gallon jug.

    And, a well lubed belly.

    MTV
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