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Thread: DHC-2 Ownership Cost

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    SJ's Avatar
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    DHC-2 Ownership Cost

    I'm curious from folks here what the cost of ownership of a wheel equipped radial DHC-2 might be. I've checked on insurance, hangar, and of course fuel flow, but am wondering about annuals, AD's, etc and what one might expect. I note that Kenmore gets $750 per hour for dual instruction, but they also get $375 for dual in a cub.

    No, I have not lost my mind YET.

    sj

    P.S. the Beaver is Laura's favorite airplane, and her birthday is coming up...
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Seems hard to find a decent one. I have a friend looking. They are workhorses and it shows.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    I'm curious from folks here what the cost of ownership of a wheel equipped radial DHC-2 might be. I've checked on insurance, hangar, and of course fuel flow, but am wondering about annuals, AD's, etc and what one might expect. I note that Kenmore gets $750 per hour for dual instruction, but they also get $375 for dual in a cub.

    No, I have not lost my mind YET.

    sj

    P.S. the Beaver is Laura's favorite airplane, and her birthday is coming up...
    I have a buddy that had one til last year, I can put you in touch. It was on amphibs. Great flying machine.

    Jake


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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    I'm curious from folks here what the cost of ownership of a wheel equipped radial DHC-2 might be. I've checked on insurance, hangar, and of course fuel flow, but am wondering about annuals, AD's, etc and what one might expect. I note that Kenmore gets $750 per hour for dual instruction, but they also get $375 for dual in a cub.

    No, I have not lost my mind YET.

    sj

    P.S. the Beaver is Laura's favorite airplane, and her birthday is coming up...
    Just do it. You'll be as old as Timmy before you know it

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I think Algonquin works on Matt's

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    I worked a Beaver for several years in Kodiak. It was on amphibious floats. Actually, the floats were the vast majority of maintenance on that plane. The P and W 985 is a great engine, with proper pilot technique. Consistent and thorough warm up and respect of limits is key to keeping that engine happy. Kenmore long ago significantly increased their average time between overhaul by mandating warm ups.
    otherwise very reliable engines. Some use a bit of oil, but I’ve flown really tight ones.

    The airframe is arguably one of the toughest, most durable ever built. There’s a reason that lots of Alaska coastal air taxi operators went to Cessna 206s, but many have now gone back to Beavers. Load haulers, but they tolerate the work much better.

    Consider the average total time of virtually all Beavers.....the one I flew was “low time” when I flew it, at 7000 hours or so. That was in the 80s. It was sold then and went to an air taxi. It’s still flying air taxi in Kodiak....a year round gig, btw.

    Theyre tough in other words. I was devastated when management replaced that Beaver with a new 206.

    MTV
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    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Seems hard to find a decent one. I have a friend looking. They are workhorses and it shows.


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    I know where there is a really good one, Birdcage and all front off and replaced less than 100 hours ago, all new paint also I believe, but a great shop.

    Cost: 1,500 hour engine costs 50k. AD on the crank requires tear down.

    30 gallons an hour is what I flight planned for.

    5 year AD on the tail.

    Plan on cost to maintain around 10% of the value, or in the 30-40k per year. That includes bird cage inspections and all the stuff that keeps them up.

    Prices seem down on Barnstormers. I will be glad to check you guys out on them.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    I owned N1966B for about 15 years. It was my first airplane and I loved everything about it. I bought it from Desert Locust in Kenya. Apparently Hangar 9 thought it was a real beauty, too, and they honored it by making an exact copy of it for their RC model line.

    As prices of new 2-seat rag wings climb towards $400,000 I often wonder why more of us don’t buy and fly Beavers instead.

    http://www.dhc-2.com/id610.htm

    https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...0/HAN4545.html
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    SJ's Avatar
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    Great input, folks! Keep it coming!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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    No idea how much annuals cost, but they are sure fantastic airplanes to operate.

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    Like all airplanes, the expense of annuals depend on how well the plane has been maintained. Spares are readily available through Viking Air in B.C. and Kenmore in Seattle, WA. P&W 985s likewise are well supported.

    Kenmore builds new EDO 4930s and all its component parts.

    Both Viking and Kenmore rebuild Beavers from the ground up.

    I can’t imagine that annuals would cost more than for a 206 or 185.

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    Never maintained a Beaver, but had a Howard DGA-15 for quite a while. There are only a couple ADs on the R985, one on cylinder cracks, one for loose cylinder nuts/studs, and one for crankshaft counterweight bushings. Figure engine overhaul at 1200 hours (the crank bushings require 1600 hrs). P&W parts for the most part are less expensive that Lycoming parts. Engine accessories are more expensive.

    On the Howard, I figured 60 hours for the annual. Repairs were extra. Seemed like every other year I need at least one part that cost over a grand, in between years nothing but normal servicing. Spark plugs I would run 200 hours between servicing, change the fronts every other 100 hrs, and the backs on the opposite 100 hour. Kept 9 spares so I’d have them cleaned and ready to go. My engine burned about 3/4 quart of oil an hour. If it sat more than about 10 days, the snot box would overflow and run all over (snot box=sump drain 1 gallon can). I changed oil every 50 hours, had an Airwolf external filter. Oil tank was 8 gallons. Mine had automatic mixture control and I would run about 17.5 gph at 1850 rpm and 25 or 26” MAP. Most guys find 20-24 gph is normal.

    Hope that helps.


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    Like a guy told me once “the bigger the dog, the more it eats”. However, life is short SJ, so I’d say go for it. When I was about 19, I bought a Cub I couldn’t afford. Flew it for a year and sold it. It was a great year!
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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Best airplane ever. Don't miss an opportunity to own one.

    Gary
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    For me at least the 2-3 128 gallon fill-ups needed to get up to and back from my Canadian fishing hole started to be painful once AvGas started climbing above $2.50/gal.

    The 6 walleye filets per trip ultimately no longer justified having a half million dollar asset sitting around in the hangar.

    It’s kind of funny: I used to go hunting in Alaska twice a year. I bought the Beaver so I could explore and hunt without the expense of hiring an air taxi service to haul me around. But after I bought the airplane I never returned; I was too busy paying for the airplane, then the hangar, then the 12, then the wife, the 2 kids, etc., etc., etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    I'm curious from folks here what the cost of ownership of a wheel equipped radial DHC-2 might be. I've checked on insurance, hangar, and of course fuel flow, but am wondering about annuals, AD's, etc and what one might expect. I note that Kenmore gets $750 per hour for dual instruction, but they also get $375 for dual in a cub.

    No, I have not lost my mind YET.

    sj

    P.S. the Beaver is Laura's favorite airplane, and her birthday is coming up...
    I’m sure she won’t see this

  17. #17
    cafi19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah-Jay View Post
    I’m sure she won’t see this
    Oh whatever!

    It has been a dream since I first saw one! I am definitely a bad influence. Had a chance to buy a $59K project a long time ago and didn't have the money then. Would have sold my sole to own a small interest. Now it is a possibility. Scary and super exciting. I figure we wont have a long love affair (me and the plane....as you can tell....sj is a keeper just for thinking of this) but what fun it could be!!!

    cafi
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    algonquin's Avatar
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    I do all the maintenance on a Beaver and love working on it. Also flying it is truly a treat. What is hurting the price is the AD’s the feds have come up with. Many beavers have 15,000 to 30,000 hours and range from wheels only to salt water float ops. The AD’s don’t take any of that into consideration.
    The tail is every other year, the bird cage is 15 yrs then every five etc. also the elevator control rod needs to be changed and reinspected.
    now here is the real kicker.... the turbine MK III is the beaver to own. PM me if I can help you with this stuff, I’ll do my best.
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    If you gave that airplane to your wife, you’re setting yourself up for years of adolescent (in other words pilot) jokes.

    definitely the coolest airplane to fly though
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Ummm, just as a point, I’ve never run a 985 in cruise at more than 22 gph, leaned out. And that’s loaded and on floats.

    FWIW.

    MTV
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    Can we look forward to beaver.org, or is that name already taken...?��

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    Here's some experienced Beaver discussion from a great bush flying website. Cruise though their Bush Flying pages for more. It's been 44 yrs since I flew one for a summer but I recall it well:

    http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewt...p?f=25&t=55513

    Gary

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    FdxLou's Avatar
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    SJ
    Just ask Gary D.
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    Just to clarify, is Laura’s dream a wet Beaver or a dry Beaver? From my limited understanding, acquisition, maintenance, etc is substantially more on a wet Beaver. Personally, I’d be looking for a wet Beaver. Guessing there aren’t many in Arkansas to look at? SJ may have his work cut out on this Beaver hunt.
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    KevinJ, grow up.
    "Always looking up"
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    Working 135 world, I flight plan 30 gallons an hour.

    Book says 5 gallons for taxi, take off and climb... believe it! Training will be 30 I bet, as you are on power for take off lots.

    Warm the engine, be smooth and observe redline. That is the best advice for keeping costs down.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Located in Quebec, Canada, Air Tunilik has a few for sale.

    http://www.airtunilik.com/our-planes

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Kenmore long ago significantly increased their average time between overhaul by mandating warm ups.
    SJ, take note.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FdxLou View Post
    SJ
    Just ask Gary D.
    Lou
    I asked hiim first...

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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    And give Tulsa aircraft engines a call to understand just how much an overhaul would cost if it came to that. Either due to timing out from the crank AD, or something goes wrong inside.

    They're popular among pacific northwest operators when kenmore is too booked up. Had ours done there a few years back. Great work, but not cheap.

    Kevin
    510PW


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    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    Talk to Younkin about the 985 too. After flying behind engines from a handful of the shops, I’ll take a Younkin any day of the week. I’ve never flown a Beaver but have a couple thousand hrs sitting behind 1340’s and 985’s on AgCats, and the 985 is by far my favorite of the 2. It’s just a well designed, reliable engine that still doesn’t have much competition in its class. I currently have a 1300 hr engine on my backup plane that’s still running great, burns 1 gal/8 hrs of oil. I usually warm up for 30 mins minimum, 45+ on a cool day, and 20 min cooldown at the end of the day. Running them hard and adding 50 rpm to any power setting kept pressure out of the heads and running smoother, 31”/2150 initially, 30”/2050 once the load was light, 29”/1950 heading back to the strip. I limited myself to 35” on takeoff, I can count on one hand the amount of times I needed 36.5”, and it was always my fault for overloading. Keep the mags dry or you’re in for a long dryout and warmup. Beware of cylinders with Tulsa’s “barrel reconditioning,” they’re gonna pop. Don’t touch any engine controls until you’ve made the runway if a jug pops, it’ll keep running and get you home. I’m not sure if you can see the cylinder heads on a Beaver, but watch for them twitching if you can, any time I saw the engine twitch while flying I knew something was happening, either mag issues or a jug about to pop.

    I’ve went on way too long, but I’ll always love the 985. Unfortunately the economics of maintaining them correctly will make their commercial use continue to drop, 2 years into running a PT6 and I’ll never go back.
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    cafi19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Just to clarify, is Laura’s dream a wet Beaver or a dry Beaver? From my limited understanding, acquisition, maintenance, etc is substantially more on a wet Beaver. Personally, I’d be looking for a wet Beaver. Guessing there aren’t many in Arkansas to look at? SJ may have his work cut out on this Beaver hunt.
    She isn't picky. I just love that big ol' radial engine and the sound of it. Sure I would love a beaver on floats. Although Beaver Lake (no kidding) is just down the road from here....we would need amphibs to get to it. Now you are talking a much bigger nut that we want to crack....I think.
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    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafi19 View Post
    She isn't picky. I just love that big ol' radial engine and the sound of it. Sure I would love a beaver on floats. Although Beaver Lake (no kidding) is just down the road from here....we would need amphibs to get to it. Now you are talking a much bigger nut that we want to crack....I think.
    It’s your birthday, get amphibious

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    Look at several models of the Stinson Reliant. They would be less expensive than a Beaver, yet give the same appearance and sounds. Roomy and comfortable to fly. I had a 1933 Stinson SR, used to call it my mini-Beaver.
    N1PA
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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    https://alaskaslist.com/1/posts/10_T..._1_Beaver.html Belonged to a remote property neighbor until a few years back.

    Gary
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  37. #37
    algonquin's Avatar
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    The reason I said the Turbine was the plane was almost no maintained for pvt. use Beaver and the factoryTurbineis a MKIII which is exempt from some of the very expensive AD’s. The resale is also way better, they are going up every year. The Barron kit changes the angle of incidence on the wings and tail , big difference in slow flight.

  38. #38
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenterHillAg View Post
    Talk to Younkin about the 985 too. After flying behind engines from a handful of the shops, I’ll take a Younkin any day of the week. I’ve never flown a Beaver but have a couple thousand hrs sitting behind 1340’s and 985’s on AgCats, and the 985 is by far my favorite of the 2. It’s just a well designed, reliable engine that still doesn’t have much competition in its class. I currently have a 1300 hr engine on my backup plane that’s still running great, burns 1 gal/8 hrs of oil. I usually warm up for 30 mins minimum, 45+ on a cool day, and 20 min cooldown at the end of the day. Running them hard and adding 50 rpm to any power setting kept pressure out of the heads and running smoother, 31”/2150 initially, 30”/2050 once the load was light, 29”/1950 heading back to the strip. I limited myself to 35” on takeoff, I can count on one hand the amount of times I needed 36.5”, and it was always my fault for overloading. Keep the mags dry or you’re in for a long dryout and warmup. Beware of cylinders with Tulsa’s “barrel reconditioning,” they’re gonna pop. Don’t touch any engine controls until you’ve made the runway if a jug pops, it’ll keep running and get you home. I’m not sure if you can see the cylinder heads on a Beaver, but watch for them twitching if you can, any time I saw the engine twitch while flying I knew something was happening, either mag issues or a jug about to pop.

    I’ve went on way too long, but I’ll always love the 985. Unfortunately the economics of maintaining them correctly will make their commercial use continue to drop, 2 years into running a PT6 and I’ll never go back.
    Just reminded me of having mag blocks in my oven in Kodiak, on the phone talking to our old Chief of Maintenance, asking if he really thought this was a good idea..... His response: Well, you’re doing it the way I told you to, right?

    Flying fine next day. He sent me a waterproof “Bra” that covered the gap between the cowl and the boot cowl. No more wet mags. Look at the line of Cessna 190/195s at Oshkosh....same device.

    Agree on power settings. Same COM told me when I was checking out in the Beaver: “If you’re looking at trees in the TOP of the windscreen, I’d better find knuckle prints in the windshield as we look at the wreck. But if you don’t wreck, then you call me and we’ll decide what to do. I pulled a bunch once, called him the next day, while my underwear was in the wash.

    MTV

    MTV
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  39. #39
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Look at several models of the Stinson Reliant. They would be less expensive than a Beaver, yet give the same appearance and sounds. Roomy and comfortable to fly. I had a 1933 Stinson SR, used to call it my mini-Beaver.

    http://www.seaplanesnorth.com/1933-stinson-jr-sr/

    That one will cost less than a couple years insurance on the Beaver!!

    MTV- Spot on with the power advice. I have always been taught to cruise at the 8s or 9s, (28/18; 29/19) depending on load. Keep it under red for take-off and bring prop/throttle back together to reduce vibration and internal issues.

    Of course, then the mechanics always tell you that if something is in the way, make sure the throttle is bent forward before you hit, but let them know if you don't hit so they can check the cylinders for separation and torque before the next flight.

    Flaps are the important part though. flaps to turn.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  40. #40

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    Wouldn’t it be crazy expensive owning a Turbo Beaver for private use? Don’t turbines cost big money just sitting around doing nothing. Isn’t the fuel burn way more per hour, too?

    I suppose if you’re crazy rich....

    But if you’re thinking about owning a TB, wouldn’t a turbine otter be a better option? They use the same PT6, but carry twice the load.
    Last edited by Paul Heinrich; 03-11-2021 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Fix typo
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