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Thread: DHC-2 Ownership Cost

  1. #161

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    My 985 was running so well at TBO that I sent it to Tulsa for rebuild instead of risking the unknown origin of an exchange engine. Rex did such an amazing job that it was almost 50 hours of running before a drop of oil appeared on the belly. I have a couple hundred hours on the engine now and it uses a quart in about 10 hours...about the same as my Cub!
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  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    I always laugh when the subject of oil comes up with regard to radial engines. The old argument that if a radial isn't using oil, there's something wrong with it....etc.

    The R-985 in the Beaver has an oil tank that sits between the pilot and copilot's feet/knees. That tank holds, if memory serves, about 6 gallons of oil. Let's compare that to an O-320: The 985 has three times the displacement, and about three times the rated power. The max oil quantity of the O-320 is eight quarts, or two gallons....the 985 carries three times that. So far, so good.

    Now, if a 320 uses say, a quart every ten to fifteen hours, why wouldn't a 985 use about a gallon over the same period?

    And, as we all know, a LITTLE bit of oil thrown makes a HUGE mess. It's all proportional, basically.

    In the Beaver I flew in Kodiak, I always carried a 1.5 gallon jug of engine oil. Sort of like carrying a quart or two in a Super Cub. One winter, our maintenance folks needed to do some work on my airplane, so I flew it up to Anchorage for the work. They handed me the keys to a newly refurbished Beaver that'd just been completely re-worked in the Seattle area, including an overhauled engine.

    When I arrived in Kodiak with that plane, I noticed it had a single quart can of oil in the baggage compartment. I had to laugh. But, over the next few weeks, I found myself adding just a quart of oil every once in a while. That engine was really tight.

    The locals familiar with radials told me they wouldn't trust that engine....sorta jokingly. But, it ran fine, and very clean.

    A couple months later, I flew that plane back to ANC and picked up my regular ride. Back to a 1.5 gallon jug.

    And, a well lubed belly.

    MTV
    Oil quantity was determined underCAR 4 to be one gallon for each 25 gallons of fuel, or one gallon for each 75 hp (except take off) which ever was greater. My Howard had an 8 gallon tank. I seemed to go through about 3/4 of a quart an hour, but it would leak (into the snot box) about a half gallon a week when not in use. I carried a 2 gallon jug of 25W60 in the baggage all the time. More for ballast to get more of an aft loading than anything else.


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  3. #163

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    My first Beaver flight was instructive. Having started the engine I remembered I hadn’t first checked the oil level, so I leaned over and opened the oil dipstick cap. It took about 2 seconds for the co-pilot footwell to fill with about a gallon of clean 100 weight straight mineral oil. The cleanup took much longer and I never made that mistake again.

  4. #164
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    I had a passenger say his left foot was hot and wet. Either he somehow hit the oil cap and it opened or it wasn't fully closed. Quite the mess. He still wears the stained shoes when he flies with me. To remind one of us to check the oil cap I guess.
    GDrean
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  5. #165
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    Back to the flap lever discussion- getting flaps down...

    Every training I have EVER taken drums into your head to fly with the selector in the DOWN position. When you reach over and put a pump in, the flaps will go down.

    If not, you will find yourself wishing for flaps. I know of an Otter that went to the ground on base to final, got in a sinker and pilot put in flaps, only to find the lever was in up, and it killed his lift.

    Lift flaps- put the lever back to DOWN position, every time
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdrean View Post
    I had a passenger say his left foot was hot and wet. Either he somehow hit the oil cap and it opened or it wasn't fully closed. Quite the mess. He still wears the stained shoes when he flies with me. To remind one of us to check the oil cap I guess.
    I was assigned a "VIP Flight" in Kodiak. Two big wigs from the Department of Interior and our Regional Director, who was a good guy, but not an aviation type.

    Took off in the Beaver, Regional Director in the copilot seat, and about twenty minutes out, out of the corner of my eye, I saw him reach over by his left knee and twist and lift the oil filler cap and dipstick. A big glop of very black and nasty looking W_100 Aeroshell went kerplop on his left pant leg, right at his knee.

    I was just sort of stunned that someone would open that, but he very calmly put the cap back on, and secured it.....then calmly looked out the window as if nothing had happened. One of the guys in the back seat was literally in hysterics, laughing his butt off.....he came on the intercom and said "So, Keith, do we need to go back to Kodiak and find a laundromat?" Keith took the ribbing well, I thought.

    After we landed, he asked me what that cap was for......I explained and he said "Okay, thanks". That was the last time I brought it up with him, but I'm guessing his Washington based compatriots in the back seat reminded him of it a few times.

    After that, my pre flight passenger briefing included telling the person in the right seat NOT to touch that oil filler cap.

    MTV
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  7. #167
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    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
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    Engine oil was just part of it. Our Maintenance guys HATED seeing my Beaver arrive for a 100 hour. I basically coated that airplane with LPS, mostly LPS 3. Floats, gear, everything. The plane lived in salt water a lot. So, to actually inspect the thing, the mechanics had to clean all that stuff off.....lots of solvent and a huge mess to clean up.

    Soon as I got it back to Kodiak, the LPS can came out and back at it....It didn't pay to get too close to that plane wearing good clothes.

    MTV
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  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Engine oil was just part of it. Our Maintenance guys HATED seeing my Beaver arrive for a 100 hour. I basically coated that airplane with LPS, mostly LPS 3. Floats, gear, everything. The plane lived in salt water a lot. So, to actually inspect the thing, the mechanics had to clean all that stuff off.....lots of solvent and a huge mess to clean up.

    Soon as I got it back to Kodiak, the LPS can came out and back at it....It didn't pay to get too close to that plane wearing good clothes.

    MTV
    So no white shirt with epaulets for you?

  10. #170
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    Thought of you, SJ. This was parked in front of Interstate Aviation in Pullman WA, yesterday.

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  11. #171
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    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  12. #172

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  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
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    If you need Bill Rusk and I to bring it down for you, let me know... our training is having a bit of an icy start. Hope lakes open soon!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
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    Pic or you’re full of it.
    When everything is going wrong, and the world is bearing down on you.......GO FULL THROTTLE!!!
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  15. #175
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    I owe an explanation of my "pending" post, and planned to do it before now but things got busy.

    I am very proud of all of the effort that Laura put in learning about Beaver ownership, and we are both incredibly appreciative of all the advice we recieved about them from all of you on this thread, and the many private messages, emails, texts, and phone calls. Thanks to you all!

    While we fully expected this to be an expensive proposition, we decided that we are just not big enough players to comfortably swing it - hangar space, AD's, Canadian conversions, resale, gallons of oil, and tons of fuel, it all added up and we said "uncle".

    So what is pending, is a piece of property we have a contract on instead - no, not with a runway unfortunately, but some elbow room which is something Laura has always wanted.

    Thanks again to all of you, this is a great thread for anyone considering a DHC-2! You are all the best!

    sj & lj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  16. #176
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I think we need a new catagory in the forum index.
    " I want to date Jennifer Aniston but not sure she will like me. Can you help?"

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    I think we need a new catagory in the forum index.
    " I want to date Jennifer Aniston but not sure she will like me. Can you help?"

    Glenn
    Glad to help, I'll keep the J4 flying while you heal from Bev's beating!

    From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be
    found in all corners of the earth."

    Then he made the earth round... and He laughed and laughed and laughed!
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  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    I think we need a new catagory in the forum index.
    " I want to date Jennifer Aniston but not sure she will like me. Can you help?"

    Glenn
    HA!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    I owe an explanation of my "pending" post, and planned to do it before now but things got busy.

    I am very proud of all of the effort that Laura put in learning about Beaver ownership, and we are both incredibly appreciative of all the advice we recieved about them from all of you on this thread, and the many private messages, emails, texts, and phone calls. Thanks to you all!

    While we fully expected this to be an expensive proposition, we decided that we are just not big enough players to comfortably swing it - hangar space, AD's, Canadian conversions, resale, gallons of oil, and tons of fuel, it all added up and we said "uncle".

    So what is pending, is a piece of property we have a contract on instead - no, not with a runway unfortunately, but some elbow room which is something Laura has always wanted.

    Thanks again to all of you, this is a great thread for anyone considering a DHC-2! You are all the best!

    sj & lj
    WOW! I would’ve lied, like, forever.
    When everything is going wrong, and the world is bearing down on you.......GO FULL THROTTLE!!!
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  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayou Navigator View Post
    WOW! I would’ve lied, like, forever.
    We also figured with you being so close, we would just come over and fly yours...

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  21. #181
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    Steve. Finally someone makes a really great decision in 2021
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  22. #182
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    You are not in Kansas anymore, so flying houses are a bit less common...

    Elbow room property, does that mean a cub strip or heli pad?

    Beavers are a big bite. If you knew you had work for it, or you had all the money you wish you had, maybe!!

    Enjoy the property, pictures?
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  23. #183

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    Yeah Mike those were the days, I always wanted to get a pic of you in the piston beaver, me in the stock turbine beaver, and the Pinocchio beaver, but alas we were always working too hard...
    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    I worked a Beaver for several years in Kodiak. It was on amphibious floats. Actually, the floats were the vast majority of maintenance on that plane. The P and W 985 is a great engine, with proper pilot technique. Consistent and thorough warm up and respect of limits is key to keeping that engine happy. Kenmore long ago significantly increased their average time between overhaul by mandating warm ups.
    otherwise very reliable engines. Some use a bit of oil, but I’ve flown really tight ones.

    The airframe is arguably one of the toughest, most durable ever built. There’s a reason that lots of Alaska coastal air taxi operators went to Cessna 206s, but many have now gone back to Beavers. Load haulers, but they tolerate the work much better.

    Consider the average total time of virtually all Beavers.....the one I flew was “low time” when I flew it, at 7000 hours or so. That was in the 80s. It was sold then and went to an air taxi. It’s still flying air taxi in Kodiak....a year round gig, btw.

    Theyre tough in other words. I was devastated when management replaced that Beaver with a new 206.

    MTV

  24. #184
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    Here you go....We might have to come up with a good beaver name for the place (even if the street is a bird name). If all goes well....we will close on June 1st, almost a year to the day that we closed on the current house. That's a record for us I think.

    Greatly appreciate all the help in this. It was really hard NOT to choose a beaver....but I think we would have kicked ourselves having done it. Sigh! Who knows, maybe someday we will try it again.

    cafi
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  25. #185
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    Very nice, but a pool might be more maintenance then a beaver ;- )

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  26. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Very nice, but a pool might be more maintenance then a beaver ;- )

    Glenn
    That's no pool that's a beaver pond.

    From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be
    found in all corners of the earth."

    Then he made the earth round... and He laughed and laughed and laughed!
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  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Very nice, but a pool might be more maintenance then a beaver ;- )

    Glenn
    TRUE! I mainted two pools for a hotel when I worked there... I swore I would never own one! YIKES
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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  28. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40m View Post
    that's no pool that's a beaver pond.
    ha!
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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  29. #189
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    It's a saltwater pool which is supposedly less difficult to maintain and it is just a wee little thing so.... I think they call it a dipping pool. We don't have the lake anymore and I don't hold up well in the heat....so this is the next best thing.

    cafi

  30. #190
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    Yea, all those trees are gonna be the maintenance part. They make good composting bins until you get enought dirt to fill them in. Don't ask how I know.


    Congrats, looks like an awesome place. How long is the bike ride to downtown and the airport?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafi19 View Post
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    Is that a pipe line right of way crossing the upper third of the property? Perhaps an old railroad bed?
    N1PA

  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Is that a pipe line right of way crossing the upper third of the property? Perhaps an old railroad bed?
    It's a small power line easement.
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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  33. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Congrats, looks like an awesome place. How long is the bike ride to downtown and the airport?
    It's about 1 mile from Sugar Creek (58AR), 4 miles from the square, and 6.5 miles to KVBT.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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