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Thread: Magnesium oil sump

  1. #1

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    Magnesium oil sump

    Trying to find a magnesium oil sump for a Lycoming 0360. Not sure What happened with the ones from ECI. Any information or sources would be appreciated.

    Thx, Ryan

  2. #2

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    Maybe check with continental/titan to see if they sell them.
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Curious why you want magnesium vs standard (aluminum?)?
    As I recall, O300 Continentals have a magnesium sump,
    which caused complications whenever one needed to be repaired.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  4. #4
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    It is exactly 7 pounds lighter than a stock 0-360 sump. 7 pounds is a lot.


    Bill
    Very Blessed. "It's not an obsession, it's a passion"
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  5. #5
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    The mag sumps have the carb attachment in the middle. Most older engines(320 a2b b2b) have it in the back. The intake tubes are different and the flanges. The throttle and carb brackets are different and the lower cowl is different too. Later dynafocal engines should have the carb in the middle. So if you’re putting it on a cub that is already done you may be In for some extra work. I got the last one through Aviall. Didn’t end up using it as it was on a rear mounted sump and didn’t want to change everything.


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  6. #6
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Curious why you want magnesium vs standard (aluminum?)?
    As I recall, O300 Continentals have a magnesium sump,
    which caused complications whenever one needed to be repaired.
    BTW the sump repair required was usually the sump rotting out in front of where the carb bolted on--
    moisture from condensation would collect there, esp on taildraggers (C170),
    and was blocked from draining out via the aft mounted drain.
    Doesn't seem likely to me but it happened to too many sumps to not believe it.
    FWIW the 320 Lycoming carb also bolts to the sump in the same fashion.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  7. #7

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    Thank you all for the replies! Unfortunately, Continental,Titan, Aviall Won’t give me the time of day. I did get a price quote from AirPower inc. Looks like they’ve gone up significantly, Almost $1600 now. 7 pounds off the nose would be huge; however, That’s over $200 per pound weight savings. Hopefully I can find a used one or something...

    Ryan
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  8. #8
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Wow....does sound like it has gone up a bunch. I was generally running a max of 100 dollars a pound saved but maybe that needs to be upped a little, inflation and all, but 200 a pound seems pretty high.

    Yes, the 0-300 sumps had corrosion problems but they are 50 plus years old, and many if not just about all, spent a lot of time outside. I will be dead LONG before my magnesium sump corrodes.

    Bill
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  9. #9
    aktango58's Avatar
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    $200/pound? That seems fair considering all the easy stuff has gone up in cost, so the old figure of $100 is outdated.

    I got a message last night that one fly reel manufacture has had serious issues getting material, so the shop can't get reels. I was also told to buy what is in stock, that a special order or back order may take all summer to fill. Aluminum and magnesium products, well, all products using metals seem to be going up in price and down in availability.

    Hold on to your hats, it is going to be a ride for a while.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  10. #10
    DJ's Avatar
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    I weighed my sump (O-360 C4P) at rebuild and compared with Bill Rusk's numbers. Mine weighed 11.2 lbs so the mag sump would save me only 3.7 lbs if my scale is accurate. When I checked the price was around $1400. Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #11

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    Guess I need to pull the sump and weigh it

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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Interesting. I did not know there was that much difference between sumps. Thanks DJ. That would make the per pound savings really expensive.

    Here is a link to my post on my weight and sump swap out https://www.supercub.org/forum/showt...l=1#post637213

    Bill
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    Again, thank you all.The knowledge you share in this thread as well as all of the others is very generous. It is a tremendous help for me during the build process.

    Ryan

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    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Doesn’t magnesium burn really good?

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    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Yes it does however it is very difficult to ignite in masses as large as an oil sump and the flame is small and localized. While strips or shavings are easy to ignite, you would need a literal blowtorch to ignite a sump. It's like trying to set a whole log on fire vs. small pieces of kindling.
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  16. #16

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    These guys make what you want and have a good reputation
    Products (skydynamics.com)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Murphy View Post
    Trying to find a magnesium oil sump for a Lycoming 0360. Not sure What happened with the ones from ECI. Any information or sources would be appreciated.

    Thx, Ryan
    Last edited by JohnnyR; 01-15-2022 at 05:28 PM.
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  17. #17

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    Some one should design a fabricated aluminum sump welded together. Hard part would be making the spider and welding it in so stuff didn't crack later .

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    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirthog4 View Post
    Some one should design a fabricated aluminum sump welded together. Hard part would be making the spider and welding it in so stuff didn't crack later .
    CubCrafters seem quite proud of their 363i sump and carbon fibre induction manifold. No spider in the sump. http://cubcrafters.com/c/2017/11/cub...3i-power-plant.

    Don't know if they sell these parts to those who are not Carbon Cub owners.

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    It is not a light weight sump but the Superior high flow sump is what I will be using on my 0360
    DENNY

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    I am just about to retire from a drive systems design engineering career. I design helicopter transmissions. We use a lot of magnesium but only for one reason. It has one of the best strength to weight ratios of any material we use. We use it for housing castings where the part is large. Other than that one reason, it is just about the worst material there is. Corrodes if you look at it wrong. Sometime, Google the words"galvanic series". Just about every one you pull up will have magnesium on the very end of the series. The further the mating material is, the worse the galvanic corrosion. Put carbon fiber up against magnesium and you'll see what I mean. We spend tons of resources and money to isolate and protect magnesium and it still corrodes. It is a very problematic material in any marine type environment. All that said, we use it a lot but it always makes trouble and will always have corrosion problems in the field. If you decide to use it, just recognize that you will need more monitoring and likely more maintenance. As far as burning is concerned, yeah, it will burn but usually needs to be in a pretty fine particle size to do so. A sump likely won't light off but if you are grinding on it, be darn careful. Mag fires are really hard to put out, too.

    Wayne
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    CubCrafters seem quite proud of their 363i sump and carbon fibre induction manifold. No spider in the sump. http://cubcrafters.com/c/2017/11/cub...3i-power-plant.

    Don't know if they sell these parts to those who are not Carbon Cub owners.
    The first one was 3d printed. An FX3 I maintain had it installed and during fly off it had a backfire and shattered. Luckily the carbon fiber manifolds had just been finished. I only learned this when doing a condition inspection and seeing soot everywhere and asked the owner. Just thought it was an interesting little tid bit.
    Steve Pierce

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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirthog4 View Post
    Some one should design a fabricated aluminum sump welded together. Hard part would be making the spider and welding it in so stuff didn't crack later .
    This is Cubcrafters light weight sump for the 340. It got smashed and had internal cracks. I had to remove, persuade and weld. Anyway, hope these pics will help inspire someone to someday produce something similar. Click image for larger version. 

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