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Thread: 26” Goodyear on A185F

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    26” Goodyear on A185F

    Hello all! This may have been discussed before...sorry if I’m duplicating any older threads.
    Im gathering information on member experience with GY 26” tires. I have an opportunity to get a set of these at a good price. I’ve spoken to a few people with very mixed reviews on the Skywagon. I understand that there are no STC’s. Read about issues with approval...slippage on the wheel... I like the idea of larger wheel size without sacrificing durability or too much in cruise.
    anyone really happy with them? Is it worth it?
    thanks in advance, B
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    I had them on a Hawk XP and then a 180J. They don't do anything very well. There are several better options depending what it is you want to do.
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I have a set I bought for my 53 C180.
    It took me a year to get a field approval from the local FSDO.
    I have yet to install them, as my current 850's seem to work pretty well for my flying.
    If I needed a little bigger, for better flotation or whatever,
    they seem like a pretty good cost vs benefit option.
    I'm sure there are better options for some situations, for example Bushwheels,
    but the cost vs benefit may not pencil out for everyone.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    85Mike's Avatar
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    I had them on my '67 185 for several years with no issues. I was doing some heavy lifting off airport. Didn't notice much difference in airspeed between them and the 8.50's that I was running. The cost difference for BWs was substantial.

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    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    There are reports that the 26” Goodyear Blimp tire works great in field stubble.

    We know they wear well.

    They are about 2” taller than 8.50-6 in my latest comparison

    They are not a “tundra” tire, in my estimation as sidewall flex is very stiff.
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    aktango58's Avatar
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    Free would not be worth the install.

    my experience
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    26” Goodyear on A185F

    My cub functions as a ranch pickup, among other things.
    Goodyears will handle quite a bit of sharp pointy things you might roll over.

    I will probably go the bush wheel route and be more selective of my LZs at some point.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    .........They are not a “tundra” tire, in my estimation as sidewall flex is very stiff.
    That's kind of part of the problem with the 26" GY's.
    That stiff sidewall leads people to run them with pretty low pressure,
    which still doesn't let the sidewall flex much.
    But it does make it easier for them to slip on the rims.

    Might be nice if Desser came out with a 26" version of the 850x6 4 ply smoothie.
    The sidewall on those is very flexible, & should absorb a lot of bumps.
    It'd be even nicer if Desser or whoever actually got an STC to put them on 180's.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    G44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Free would not be worth the install.

    my experience
    Do you care to elaborate?

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    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Might be nice if Desser came out with a 26" version of the 850x6 4 ply smoothie.
    The sidewall on those is very flexible, & should absorb a lot of bumps.
    It'd be even nicer if Desser or whoever actually got an STC to put them on 180's.
    To be fair, the 850x6 4 ply tundra is far closer to a 26 GY in size than anything else. A 26 Goodyear runs around 24" in size and the 850x6 tundra is fully 23" and then some. Plus there was an authorization letter floating around (I think from Atlee?) to install the 850x6 Tundra on an 180/185. Not an STC but at least a letter from the feds saying it was OK to field approve that tire.

  11. #11
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    Do you care to elaborate?
    PA-12, 9 PSI, Still lots of stiff sidewall, both tube cores in same landing without skidding the tires.

    Never use them again without a blimp over them.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    The question was about a Skywagon. Here's my pirep for a big motored high grossing 180. 26" Goodyears aren't going to be soft even if you run dangerously low pressure and on a plane with 3350# gross you'll keep them inflated. Since you won't run them low they'll maintain their round cross section so they tend to sink into soft ground. On harder ground they have a small contact patch and that hurts braking authority. Even when pumped up they're resistant to rolling the plane around so it takes more thrust to move the plane. Or more oomph from the guy dragging it in and out of parking. They may look like Bushwheels but they're very different. Bushwheels are radials. They can be run soft so they absorb irregularities in the surface, they have a large contact patch so float over soft ground, and they roll easily. The softer the ground the bigger the rolling advantage. I can stand on my brakes at gross weight and the tires bite the gravel or sand. Hard braking on wet grass sucks no matter what tires you choose. If you want most of the benefits of Bushwheels but want better wear? I'd choose 850x10 Air Hawks on 10" ABW wheels. 26" tall, good width, capable of running a little soft, and very durable. The ABW wheels have good bead profile so spinning tires isn't a threat any longer. I know Desser offers tires but I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the Aero Classic brand so I wouldn't go that way. I've had 29" Bushwheels for 20 years with some 29" Air Hawks for a short time in the middle. My home base has changed and includes some pavement but I can minimize that so I'll keep running Bushwheels.
    Last edited by stewartb; 02-17-2021 at 12:44 PM.
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    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Crash JR

    What is the 8.50-6 Tundra tire of which yu speak? Is it a ABW product?

    Stewart B. The performance of the Desser 31” tire on GarAero’s or ABW 10-10’s is excellent in Tundra tussocks, soft sand, and grapefruit/mango size rock. ...in my experience. I normally run 12 psi. have been at 9 psi ( see MTV’s post about cold tires, etc). Never slipped a 31 Desser yet. even at 9 psi on a grossed out 185F

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    Crash JR

    What is the 8.50-6 Tundra tire of which yu speak? Is it a ABW product?

    Stewart B. The performance of the Desser 31” tire on GarAero’s or ABW 10-10’s is excellent in Tundra tussocks, soft sand, and grapefruit/mango size rock. ...in my experience. I normally run 12 psi. have been at 9 psi ( see MTV’s post about cold tires, etc). Never slipped a 31 Desser yet. even at 9 psi on a grossed out 185F
    Dave, it’s a Desser tire:

    https://www.wagaero.com/desser-850-6...-approved.html

    MTV
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  15. #15
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Yep, that's the one. The Desser 850x6-4 Smooth tread Tundra.

    Had a few sets come through the shop here. Very reasonably priced as an alternative to the 26" Goodyear. Tread is much thinner than a GY tire though. One customer tried mounting one in an Airglas nose fork and it rubbed the arches if that tells you anything about how much bigger than a normal 850x6 they are.

  16. #16
    G44's Avatar
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    How do these Desser 8:50’s compare in size to the 26” Goodyears?

    Kurt

  17. #17
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    A 26 Goodyear runs around 24" in size and the 850x6 tundra is fully 23" and then some. Plus there was an authorization letter floating around (I think from Atlee?) to install the 850x6 Tundra on an 180/185. Not an STC but at least a letter from the feds saying it was OK to field approve that tire.
    See above for tire size comparison
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    To be fair, the 850x6 4 ply tundra is far closer to a 26 GY in size than anything else. A 26 Goodyear runs around 24" in size and the 850x6 tundra is fully 23" and then some. Plus there was an authorization letter floating around (I think from Atlee?) to install the 850x6 Tundra on an 180/185. Not an STC but at least a letter from the feds saying it was OK to field approve that tire.
    Yep, it's on the Atlee Dodge website.

    Scanned Document (fadodge.com)

    It doesn't specifiy the Desser "tundra tirea", just "850x6, 4 ply tires"
    (of which Desser seems to be the only current manufacturer).
    Note that it specifies 4 ply, so technically is not applicable to most 850's which are 6 or 8 ply.
    It also specifies "on the original main gear wheels", so technically is not applicable to Cleveland or ABI wheels.

    FWIW my (mounted) 850x6 Airtracs are about 21" OD,
    my (unmounted) 26" GY's are about 24" OD.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    The question was about a Skywagon. Here's my pirep for a big motored high grossing 180.....
    Stewart, thanks for posting a detailed pirep of why you don't care for them.
    (all very valid points BTW)
    Much better than the typical "they're no good" with no explanation of why.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    It also specifies "on the original main gear wheels", so technically is not applicable to Cleveland or ABI wheels
    I'm not entirely sure that's true. Cessna sent out a lot of 180's and 185's with Cleveland wheels from the factory; just check the Cleveland catalog for serial number ranges of planes shipped with OEM Cleveland wheels. Since ABI's are a PMA direct replacement for Clevelands (of the same part number) you can also use ABI wheels as "original equipment" if the plane was originally equipped with Cleveland wheels from the factory. I would also hazard a guess that if you install Cleveland or ABI wheels under STC you are adding those wheels to the type certificate by using the STC which would make them "original wheels" in terms of what is approved on the TCDS (modified by supplimental type certificate).

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    I've used the Goodyear 26 inch tires on a few planes, including one 185. They are fine, considering what they are. I think sometimes we take something that was designed for a specific use and try to adapt it to a very different application.

    The Goodyear blimp tires (that's what the 26 inch tires were developed for), as noted above, have stiff side walls, and are designed to be operated at relatively "normal" aircraft tire pressures....ie: 35 psi or so.

    I've run these tires at 18 to 20 psi, and that's about as low in pressure as I'd be comfortable with, long term. We had a Cub with these tires on it, and I was going to fly it. Checked tire pressures, and they didn't even read on a gauge. Tires were essentially flat, yet to look at them, they looked "normal". Again, very stiff sidewalls.

    So, is there a niche for these tires? They wear like iron, and on a heavier plane like a 185, that's a plus. Run them at a "reasonable" tire pressure, check pressures frequently, and they'll work fine.

    Probably the feature that is most attractive about them, other than their wear characteristics, is the smooth surfaces. So, they don't throw AS MANY rocks at the tail of your airplane. Not none....every tire on the planet will throw some rocks at times.

    The biggest disadvantage I see with these tires are two fold:

    1. There are no approvals for them, so field approval is all you've got and we all know about those.
    2. They are expensive. At around $700 a tire, plus a good quality tube at $150 plus, you're getting up there in price.

    I've seen the Dessers on a few planes and they LOOK pretty small to me, but that's subjective.

    I refuse to use Desser tires or especially tubes. Tubes often leak, and in my experience the wear characteristics are far worse than Goodyears. I'll stick with Goodyears, or Bushwheels....

    I agree with Stewart that the Airframes 10 x 10 wheel with 8.50 x 10 tires might be a really nice setup for frequent asphalt, and occasional off airport or back country use.

    Bring something over $3000. Still cheaper than Bushwheels, but.....

    MTV
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  22. #22
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    except fer the Desser comments, I like MTV’s post

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    I've used the Goodyear 26 inch tires on a few planes, including one 185. They are fine, considering what they are. I think sometimes we take something that was designed for a specific use and try to adapt it to a very different application.

    The Goodyear blimp tires (that's what the 26 inch tires were developed for), as noted above, have stiff side walls, and are designed to be operated at relatively "normal" aircraft tire pressures....ie: 35 psi or so.

    I've run these tires at 18 to 20 psi, and that's about as low in pressure as I'd be comfortable with, long term. We had a Cub with these tires on it, and I was going to fly it. Checked tire pressures, and they didn't even read on a gauge. Tires were essentially flat, yet to look at them, they looked "normal". Again, very stiff sidewalls.

    So, is there a niche for these tires? They wear like iron, and on a heavier plane like a 185, that's a plus. Run them at a "reasonable" tire pressure, check pressures frequently, and they'll work fine.

    Probably the feature that is most attractive about them, other than their wear characteristics, is the smooth surfaces. So, they don't throw AS MANY rocks at the tail of your airplane. Not none....every tire on the planet will throw some rocks at times.

    The biggest disadvantage I see with these tires are two fold:

    1. There are no approvals for them, so field approval is all you've got and we all know about those.
    2. They are expensive. At around $700 a tire, plus a good quality tube at $150 plus, you're getting up there in price.

    I've seen the Dessers on a few planes and they LOOK pretty small to me, but that's subjective.

    I refuse to use Desser tires or especially tubes. Tubes often leak, and in my experience the wear characteristics are far worse than Goodyears. I'll stick with Goodyears, or Bushwheels....

    I agree with Stewart that the Airframes 10 x 10 wheel with 8.50 x 10 tires might be a really nice setup for frequent asphalt, and occasional off airport or back country use.

    Bring something over $3000. Still cheaper than Bushwheels, but.....

    MTV
    I don't disagree that my situation was asking more of the tires than they can do... which is why I believe that they are useless for off airport use.

    If you have high enough pressure to keep them from spinning, they sink into the soft and have no rough field shock absorbing properties.

    They are smaller than they advertise.

    So WHY BOTHER?

    The cheap price attracted me, I tried them, and got bit very small because both tires went at the same time. Never had an issue with bushwheels with way more hours on them.

    So why would a pilot knowingly put a tire on a plane that won't float over soft, not give any shock absorbing in rough, are not much bigger than tires 1/3 the cost, and will be expensive to approve when you can get one that is soft, floats and is approved??
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    I don't disagree that my situation was asking more of the tires than they can do... which is why I believe that they are useless for off airport use.

    If you have high enough pressure to keep them from spinning, they sink into the soft and have no rough field shock absorbing properties.

    They are smaller than they advertise.

    So WHY BOTHER?

    The cheap price attracted me, I tried them, and got bit very small because both tires went at the same time. Never had an issue with bushwheels with way more hours on them.

    So why would a pilot knowingly put a tire on a plane that won't float over soft, not give any shock absorbing in rough, are not much bigger than tires 1/3 the cost, and will be expensive to approve when you can get one that is soft, floats and is approved??
    $$$$

    Cheapest thing in an airplane is the pilot.

    But those tires have a place, just not yours, maybe. And, that’s okay.

    MTV

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    I'm not entirely sure that's true. Cessna sent out a lot of 180's and 185's with Cleveland wheels from the factory; just check the Cleveland catalog for serial number ranges of planes shipped with OEM Cleveland wheels. Since ABI's are a PMA direct replacement for Clevelands (of the same part number) you can also use ABI wheels as "original equipment" if the plane was originally equipped with Cleveland wheels from the factory. I would also hazard a guess that if you install Cleveland or ABI wheels under STC you are adding those wheels to the type certificate by using the STC which would make them "original wheels" in terms of what is approved on the TCDS (modified by supplimental type certificate).
    I believe that the original wheels & brakes on the early 180's were Goodyears.
    Later, some had McCauley (3 piece) wheels.
    I believe that they had Cleveland (Parker Hannifin) wheels later, not sure.
    I disagree with your definition of STC'd wheel & brake kits being "original wheels".
    But I don't know that anyone is going to be looking too close at paperwork for 850's on a 180,
    unless a tire were to fail & thereby cause an accident.
    My airplane has an STC from North Sound Aviation for 850x6 tires,
    but it specifies "6 ply".
    Desser 850's are 4 ply, so not approved by that STC,
    but since the original factory equipment list includes 4 ply 800x6 tires,
    if I wanted to go the Desser route, I'd probably just run 'em.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    ...FWIW my (mounted) 850x6 Airtracs are about 21" OD,
    my (unmounted) 26" GY's are about 24" OD.
    Took some measurements at the airport yesterday.
    26" Goodyears, brand new, unmounted: 23-5/8" outside diameter
    850x6 Desser smoothie, brand new, mounted: 22-3/8" OD
    850x6 Airtrac, used, mounted: 20-7/8" OD

    So the Dessers are about 1-1/2" larger than the 850 Airtracs,
    the 26" GY's are about 1-1/4" larger than the Dessers.
    But OD dimensions don't tell the whole story--
    the GY's are "just bigger" than either of the others-- and lots heavier too.
    I used to run a set of Desser-recapped 850 GY's-- they were somewhat larger than the Airtracs,
    but as I recall not as large as these Desser smoothies.

    Like I said, it'd be nice if Desser came out with a smooth 6" tire somewhat larger than their 850.
    A lightweight, true 26" tire would be just about right.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  27. #27
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I noticed that no one brought up the 29x10 airhawks, buffed or standard tread.
    Seems like those have the some of the same drawbacks as the 26" GY's-- stiff sidewalls & heavy.
    Plus they require you to buy a set of expensive 10" wheels or GarAero adapters.
    Yet they seem to be popular on for use on the 180/185, and other "heavy touring class" airplanes like the Maule.
    Thoughts?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    From the perspective of a Skywagon guy..... 29" Air Hawks on 10" ABW wheels can be run pretty low on pressure with ABW's improved bead. Not Bushwheel soft but lots of operators use Air Hawks specifically because they aren't so soft, especially in sidewall flex. Guys who land on side slopes in particular prefer stiffer sidewalls. Air Hawks are resistant to cuts when operating on shale, too. They're tall so they roll over terrain well and they're wide so they float well. My only complaint when I tried them was they toss more rocks into the prop than Bushwheels do but now that I'm no longer on Lake Hood strip that's not a concern. Point being that sometimes our local conditions favor or disfavor choices that are popular with others. In my opinion whether talking about 850x10 or 29x11x10 the Air Hawks are superior to 26" Goodyears for off airport use and equal to Goodyears for on airport use.
    Last edited by stewartb; 02-24-2021 at 02:40 PM.

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    I ran the 26" Goodyears on my 185 for a year or so when I was contemplating what a larger tire would be like. I had been running 8.50s. This was back 10 years ago. I haven't run the 26" Goodyears for 9 years if that says anything. I didn't like them for anything except perceived durability. And I didn't like them for dirt or gravel ops either. I figured they didn't really offer a significant advantage over my 8.50s. Next I tried 26" Bushwheels. Willy Zeiger tried to talk me out of them because he knew I would end up buying 29's anyway and thought that I should just start with 29's. What does Willy know anyway? So I ran the ABW 26's for about a year before moving up to 29s. Damn, Willy was right. I've been running these for 8 years and only swap back and forth between 8.50s for wheel ski ops.

  30. #30
    algonquin's Avatar
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    I have run the 29-11-10’s on my 180 and now the 185. Had Gar’s on the 180 and ABW 10-10’s on 185. Hands down the best is the ABW 10-10’s . Also flown the 8.50-10’s on ABW’s either is a great combo and depending on what your doing pick the size. I’d be a little shy to land on a narrow mountain strip in the rain with soft BW’s on the 185 loaded. That’s just my feelings.

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    Me, I'd be shy landing on a narrow mountain strip in the rain in a loaded 185 regardless of tire.
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  32. #32
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    ....it'd be nice if Desser came out with a smooth 6" tire somewhat larger than their 850.
    A lightweight, true 26" tire would be just about right.
    I emailed Desser about this.
    Got a prompt response from them, telling me that they had no plans to introduce such a tire:
    "right now, we're going to leave the 26" tundra tire market to Goodyear".
    But they recommended I look into the new Grove 10" wheel & brake kits,
    and their own 850x10 4 ply tire (roughly 25" OD)-- approx $4K for the whole works.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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    Mike I run my 185 with the Airframes 10x10 wheel with the 8:50x10 tires. They're fine for anything you want to do. Anything bigger is only going to take you to areas you don't really belong and or, appear to make you look even cooler. The only downside I see with these tires and rims is that with the larger bush wheel , your angle of incidence is less than on the bigger 31's. But then again, I'm faster than those big balloon boys...pick your poison...
    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    I've used the Goodyear 26 inch tires on a few planes, including one 185. They are fine, considering what they are. I think sometimes we take something that was designed for a specific use and try to adapt it to a very different application.

    The Goodyear blimp tires (that's what the 26 inch tires were developed for), as noted above, have stiff side walls, and are designed to be operated at relatively "normal" aircraft tire pressures....ie: 35 psi or so.

    I've run these tires at 18 to 20 psi, and that's about as low in pressure as I'd be comfortable with, long term. We had a Cub with these tires on it, and I was going to fly it. Checked tire pressures, and they didn't even read on a gauge. Tires were essentially flat, yet to look at them, they looked "normal". Again, very stiff sidewalls.

    So, is there a niche for these tires? They wear like iron, and on a heavier plane like a 185, that's a plus. Run them at a "reasonable" tire pressure, check pressures frequently, and they'll work fine.

    Probably the feature that is most attractive about them, other than their wear characteristics, is the smooth surfaces. So, they don't throw AS MANY rocks at the tail of your airplane. Not none....every tire on the planet will throw some rocks at times.

    The biggest disadvantage I see with these tires are two fold:

    1. There are no approvals for them, so field approval is all you've got and we all know about those.
    2. They are expensive. At around $700 a tire, plus a good quality tube at $150 plus, you're getting up there in price.

    I've seen the Dessers on a few planes and they LOOK pretty small to me, but that's subjective.

    I refuse to use Desser tires or especially tubes. Tubes often leak, and in my experience the wear characteristics are far worse than Goodyears. I'll stick with Goodyears, or Bushwheels....

    I agree with Stewart that the Airframes 10 x 10 wheel with 8.50 x 10 tires might be a really nice setup for frequent asphalt, and occasional off airport or back country use.

    Bring something over $3000. Still cheaper than Bushwheels, but.....

    MTV

  34. #34
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flywhatever View Post
    Mike I run my 185 with the Airframes 10x10 wheel with the 8:50x10 tires. They're fine for anything you want to do. Anything bigger is only going to take you to areas you don't really belong and or, appear to make you look even cooler. The only downside I see with these tires and rims is that with the larger bush wheel , your angle of incidence is less than on the bigger 31's. But then again, I'm faster than those big balloon boys...pick your poison...
    Don't disagree at all. Price: $3100 plus shipping.

    Like I said: The cheapest thing in an airplane is the pilot. In this case, Me.

    MTV

  35. #35
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Just checked online:
    two ABI 10x10 wheels @ 1128 = $2256
    two Desser 4 ply 850x10 tundra tires @ 465 = $930
    two Desser 850x10 tubes @ 99 = $198
    total $3,384

    Airtrac 8 ply 850x10 are cheaper at 338 each,
    Goodyear 8 ply are about the same at 452 each.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  36. #36
    algonquin's Avatar
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    You might look at the Airtrac 29-11-10’s in 4 ply. I don’t think they make the 8.50-10’s in 4 ply. Also you can get them shaved for even lighter and less stone flying off the thread.

  37. #37
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Airtrac 8 ply 850x10 are cheaper at 338 each,
    Goodyear 8 ply are about the same at 452 each.
    Unfortunately 8 ply tires are not legal per the STC. The 10" wheel STC spells out 29x11-10 tires 4 ply or 850x10 tires 6 ply specifically. Doesn't say a specific brand or line of tire so it's open ended otherwise. I saw Desser is putting out some smooth tread "tundra" tires that fit those size and ply types now that look interesting.

  38. #38
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flywhatever View Post
    Mike I run my 185 with the Airframes 10x10 wheel with the 8:50x10 tires. They're fine for anything you want to do. Anything bigger is only going to take you to areas you don't really belong and or, appear to make you look even cooler. The only downside I see with these tires and rims is that with the larger bush wheel , your angle of incidence is less than on the bigger 31's. But then again, I'm faster than those big balloon boys...pick your poison...
    I wouldnt want to be here on 8.50-10’s. should I not be here?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  39. #39
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    I wouldnt want to be here on 8.50-10’s. should I not be here?
    Interesting looking tire tracks, Dave.....is that an optical illusion or was there some kathumping going on there?

    MTV
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  40. #40
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Perhaps optical delusion but the tires appear toed-out? Might be my eyes tho. Any fish nearby?

    Gary

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