My 180 is heading for annual. What’s the experience been doing the required inspection?
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Tail AD
- Thread starter 5CT7
- Start date
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
The tail was off my 182A 3 years ago and was reinstalled with new jackscrews, bushing etc. It is nice and tight. I inspected it when I bought it without disassembly but will have to disassemble by next December because of the AD. I am hearing mixed feedback. Some have cracks and others don't. Curious to a trend of tail draggers over nose draggers and vice versa.
We are doing about one a month and have been for about two years. We are not finding much wrong as far as the SB/AD is concerned but do find a LOT of other stuff that needs attention. This is a VERY important inspection that needs doing if you haven't been in there in a while. Complete removal of the tail is the only way to really see what's in there. Some people seem to be uneasy about doing this but its really easy ,takes about 12 hrs. round trip and $150.00 in parts if all is well and if all is not well you REALLY needed to do it.
What is your parts list?
Atxcruiser
SPONSOR
Just bought 185 with known movement in the horizontal so doing it first to get it out of the way. Went in yesterday, taking tail off, doing the Qmi kit and the jack screws at a while in there along with whatever else is found. Will report back hopefully sooner than later.
Atxcruiser
SPONSOR
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
missing a rivet in the second and last photo
long post alert with lotsa gotchas from a longtime ‘wagon fixer
Am not convinced this AD was unnecessary. However, I estimate that over 50 percent of the wagons out there have a sheared or loose rivet where yours is missing. They also often have cracked elevator spars and smoking counterbalance rivets, but have flown many many years before I get the plane.
Usually the rivet head and tail are retained by the sheet metal and smoking is the red flag with that last hockey stick rivet. I always upsize that rivet when the tail feathers are off
Why guys dont already check these areas??????? !!
4 hours to remove and reinstall the fin/rudder and elevs and horizontal. Not a tedious task atall with a few ground down gear wrenches
Additional time for actions like:
jackscrews(yes, replace bearings, screws, sprockets, dust boots, and shafts)
tailwheel spring (stinger is NOT the term. Cessna calls the tailcone a stinger) bushings and front mount corrosion between steel doubler and aluminum bulkhead
worn out elev and rudder hinge bearings
worn out rudder horn ends
broken rudder stops
anti chafe on hor stab fairing wipers
new rubber metal edge trim, new tail beacon and nav lights, new tip fairings
cracked elevator belcrank mount in front of the bulkhead
tailwheel steering belcrank (in front of bulkhead) holes worn out
Horizontal stab rear spar boxes cracked from the edge of the washer for the rear pivot mount T hardware
etc.
save up yer bucks and hire a guy who does it all properly. . ........the guy who already woulda had this stuff airworthy over the years
imho
long post alert with lotsa gotchas from a longtime ‘wagon fixer
Am not convinced this AD was unnecessary. However, I estimate that over 50 percent of the wagons out there have a sheared or loose rivet where yours is missing. They also often have cracked elevator spars and smoking counterbalance rivets, but have flown many many years before I get the plane.
Usually the rivet head and tail are retained by the sheet metal and smoking is the red flag with that last hockey stick rivet. I always upsize that rivet when the tail feathers are off
Why guys dont already check these areas??????? !!
4 hours to remove and reinstall the fin/rudder and elevs and horizontal. Not a tedious task atall with a few ground down gear wrenches
Additional time for actions like:
jackscrews(yes, replace bearings, screws, sprockets, dust boots, and shafts)
tailwheel spring (stinger is NOT the term. Cessna calls the tailcone a stinger) bushings and front mount corrosion between steel doubler and aluminum bulkhead
worn out elev and rudder hinge bearings
worn out rudder horn ends
broken rudder stops
anti chafe on hor stab fairing wipers
new rubber metal edge trim, new tail beacon and nav lights, new tip fairings
cracked elevator belcrank mount in front of the bulkhead
tailwheel steering belcrank (in front of bulkhead) holes worn out
Horizontal stab rear spar boxes cracked from the edge of the washer for the rear pivot mount T hardware
etc.
save up yer bucks and hire a guy who does it all properly. . ........the guy who already woulda had this stuff airworthy over the years
imho
Have done three in the last few months. Two had at least one of those aft rivets sheared, the other had been upsized in the past. Although, the third one had the horizontal stab spar “box” cracked as Dave described. I agree, removing the entire tail group isn’t a huge deal; pull it, inspect, reinstall in we’ll less than a day. But I’ve done it since before it was an AD, so ymmv. I personally don’t feel I can adequately inspect the specific areas called out in the AD with a borescope.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Did my tail years ago. Taking off the tail sounds way more scary than it is, just a little time. (Note, if you try to do it outside on the ramp it might be a different scenario)
The expense is that like all OLD planes, the more you look, the more to repair. The more you repair, the safer you are, and the less it will cost in the future.
Bushwheel Bill's mod is a great solution.
Dave, thank you for the extensive list. You should start a company: Skywagon Tail Tales
The expense is that like all OLD planes, the more you look, the more to repair. The more you repair, the safer you are, and the less it will cost in the future.
Bushwheel Bill's mod is a great solution.
Dave, thank you for the extensive list. You should start a company: Skywagon Tail Tales
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Another view, it WILL be needed in the future, and if things go bad they go really bad. Why not just spend your lovely bride's money and do it while you have it down??
No, no idea of the cost, but prevention is often the best and least expensive solution.
Ok, I am a little sensitive, but I bet you find your points worn.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
In case you can not read, like me, cool video: https://www.supercub.org/forum/show...2-Tailcone-Repair-explained-by-Bushwheel-Bill
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
I disagree. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
In any event, the AD has a recurring inspection requirement.
Cost: the QMI kit is about $3K, plus installation labor.
I haven't done the tail inspection yet, but when I do,
I will repair the hockey sticks .... if they are damaged.
Also any other components back there that are damaged will be replaced / repaired.
Otherwise, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
I support your view, but if you need to pull the tail off, might as well extend inspection times with the kit.
I do recognize I fly in a bit more harsh environment than most, but I will say that these silly inspections always come right before the big planned trip, and always lead to needing repairs and trip cancellations. Having seen some tails about to fall off planes, literally, that upgrade is cheap, and quick to get done when considering the time and energy of continued inspections.
Glad we can all have an opinion, with that I am just going to say that the Stinson Gullwing is a better plane to fly than the 180/185.
Stay safe guys8)
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
I'm not so sure that the recurring inspection intervals in the QMI kit's ICA
supercede the recurring inspection intervals called out in the AD.
Only the frist recurring inspection is longer anyway.
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
I have put a lot of thought into why 180/185 tails get hurt.
1. elevator counterbalances catch bushes/snow during taxi, takeoff, and rollout
2. ground handling the ac by pushing on hor stab
3. improperly torqued hor stab rear hinge hardware. If the bushing is not tight, it can rotate and cut into the hockey stick and bracket. If tight, the plastic rotates on the bushing just like Cessna planned it.
4. This next one is somewhat esoteric,and not proved: when at the tiedown, and snow builds and slides of the elevators, eventually a pile of snow captures the elevators. the next time the plane rocks in the wind, broken tail. (a really smart guy came up with this scenario. Not Me)
Inspect the plane and then go burn gas!!!!!
1. elevator counterbalances catch bushes/snow during taxi, takeoff, and rollout
2. ground handling the ac by pushing on hor stab
3. improperly torqued hor stab rear hinge hardware. If the bushing is not tight, it can rotate and cut into the hockey stick and bracket. If tight, the plastic rotates on the bushing just like Cessna planned it.
4. This next one is somewhat esoteric,and not proved: when at the tiedown, and snow builds and slides of the elevators, eventually a pile of snow captures the elevators. the next time the plane rocks in the wind, broken tail. (a really smart guy came up with this scenario. Not Me)
Inspect the plane and then go burn gas!!!!!
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Is there a standard guide / set of instructions / youtube video for dismantlng one of these tails that mechanics who have not done it before can reference? I'd had to pay a guy 50 hours in time to learn about how to take the tail apart. Sounds like folks like Dave have gotten quite efficient at it.
sj
sj
Atxcruiser
SPONSOR
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
I was shown to just uses a strip of aluminum on the underside, no angle needed. Works great.
Atxcruiser
SPONSOR
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
So they are putting the leading edge on with screws?
