Thanks: 
Likes: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0mygz_K-8
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0mygz_K-8
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Seems like an inadvertent advertisement for AVEMCO. The others just had excuses and conjecture. Granted they are brokers, not underwriters like AVEMCO. FWIW, in my lower 60s, AIG priced themselves out of my business, so both of my planes are now liability only with AVEMCO.
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I saw the linked video before my FX-3 insurance was due for renewal. I contacted AVEMCO and they declined to quote for hull risk. They refused to say why and just said "underwriting policy". I renewed with STARR which was the only company I could get to quote before I took delivery. (I'm over 70 with about 6,000 hours and about 700 tail wheel airplane. No airplane insurance losses).Originally Posted by Cub Builder
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Car, health, home… in MY opinion all insurance is legalized extortion
Have a home mortgage, gotta have insurance
Have a car, gotta have insurance
Bearhawk Companion QB Builder
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Not really. It is spreading the cost of injury to a few folks over a very wide group. We could do the same thing by eliminating tort litigation and having the taxpayers pick up the tab for those injured souls (including property damage). But the current system is seen as making folks slightly more careful when operating machinery around others.
Hull is a different story - nobody is forced to buy hull. I am willing to bet that tailwheel hull is going through the roof because of these new quarter-million dollar Cubs playing big props and long rocks.
A review of FX-3 accidents (and presumably insurance losses) will show that none fall into that category. They are almost all loss of control accidents on big paved runways. Most seem to involve pilots with low time in type and low tail wheel time.
Last edited by frequent_flyer; 07-29-2021 at 02:10 PM.
Yep, just swapped a wing on an FX3, $40K repair. My labor was a very, very small percentage of the ticket. Key is going to be availability of repair parts and a network of qualified shops to do the work tour Crafters standards.
You think tailwheel is bad, look at anfib. It more than doubled for me in a year, and they don’t give you a rate for when your on floats. It’s an anfib rate all year. Tried avemco and they said the registered owner name sounds like a commercial operation and we don’t cover that. Bwi quoted me $2600 less than my current insurance. I started shopping around when they said insurance was $6500 for floats.
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We ran into that. $7500 for a Cub on Wips, no open pilot warranty. Just to get me "named" would have been an additional $800.
My $65k cub is $1284
The $100k RV8 is $1294.
My odometer will be rolling to 73 this Oct…most likely..
My rate is a bit lower yhan last year
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It is most definitely government endorsed/encouraged legalized extortion
When the stock market drops insurance goes up due to less earnings with the percentage of the Money they have to hold for the policy period.
Our Government in Canada just doubled minimum liability and passenger coverage for Air taxi that did not help either.
One excuse for 135 insurance going through the roof was due to some 80 Boing 737 max aircraft parked at Calgary getting
severe hail damage when they where of line.
In the air-taxi world we got 80 increases in 3 Years with 0 loss history 25 years in business.
Our long standing Insurer got bought out by one of the big guys no more Mr nice guy or long standing relationships matter after that.
Politicians- Banksters and insurance Underwriters all the same club and you are not in it as George Carline used to Point out.
Dog
When it comes to insurance it is not just you it is everyone standing next to you that is included!!! I know of several High buck experimental aircraft that needed major rebuilds within the first few years of life. It is hard for insurance venders to make a buck charging one grand per plane when a single accident can cost 200 grand just for the rebuild. And if people get hurt is really gets big. Even worse for the 135 crowd, not that many putting money into the bank for when the 206 full of people flys into a mountain. If you get on a commercial flight and break you back in a crash, to you want someone to pay the bill or have them say suck it up no law says we have to have insurance? I pay a few grand with AVEMCO for my cub well worth it for the places I fly and things I do.
DENNY
My -18 renewal at 76 was 1750 for 80K. This is with Global. Avemco was 100 bucks less but their liability was less also.
Avemco said price increases are at 71, 76, and 81.
Wasn't that long ago it was at 1200.
"Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"
When the insurance company asked for $3,000 last year I decided to drop the 80K in hull insurance. I now just have liability at over $1,200. The liability is a requirement in Canada and, for me is an unconscionable rate given that where I fly there is no property to destroy and I only fly with my wife, who is unlikely to sue (but you never know!). I'm sure that my age (73) has something to do with the high rates I'm quoted, but if I lose the airplane, well ... my flying career might be coming to an end within a few years anyway so I'll take the risk.
Well, when I hit 71, AVEMCO decreased my rate by $50.My -18 renewal at 76 was 1750 for 80K. This is with Global. Avemco was 100 bucks less but their liability was less also.
Avemco said price increases are at 71, 76, and 81.
Wasn't that long ago it was at 1200.
MTV
Yeah, but I'm not Mike Vivion from Bozeman, MT
"Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"
I will give you $80K for it, can be there with the $ next week.My -18 renewal at 76 was 1750 for 80K. This is with Global. Avemco was 100 bucks less but their liability was less also.
Avemco said price increases are at 71, 76, and 81.
Wasn't that long ago it was at 1200.
I may have to come over there to SD and splain how to talk to them people….Yeah, but I'm not Mike Vivion from Bozeman, MT
That said, I hold my breath every time I get an insurance bill. And this year, I’m thinking I’m going to really need to increase stated value. If you haven’t looked at airplane prices lately, you might want to revisit your stated value……
MTV
Everyone seems to complain about the cost and sometimes requirement of liability.
Just a couple for instances- what happens if some day you are taxiing at Johnson Creek and you through a rod, which puts a hole in your oil pan and your oil drains out in front of the Forest Circus? You get the wrong ranger, and you will be paying for some environmental clean up.
Wind storm in Anchorage and the Valley last week, sounds like about fifteen planes destroyed, some of them broke loose and flew into other planes. You going to be that guy that damaged someone's plane and can not afford to repair it?
Maybe some can write a $200,000 check to cover such things, many of us can not. I am glad to have insurance, and the older I get the more important it is to me as I see the cost of just defending myself (if needed) continues to go beyond imagination.
The best part of the insurance is that they will hire attorneys for the first round of arguing.
I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
I always wondered why in Alaska you’re required by law to have liability insurance to operate a car but there are no insurance requirements to operate at state airports. Having an uninsured plane upwind of me forces my hand to buy full hull coverage. That’s BS in my opinion. Now that I park in a hangar and operate on a private strip I’m considering dropping hull coverage.
Correct we should have insurance and it should be at a reasonable cost. When my original Insurer was bought out and the next company increased the cost by 60% in one year something seems to be not right. I have seen up and down swings in the 60 to 80% range several times in the last 30 some yeas that I am in the industry. Most are driven by factors not related to loss history of the company or industry segment. All that said I can get private insurance for good rates here in Canada. Low time guys particularly on floatplanes seem to get hosed pretty bad
I honestly think the last few years that insurance has been the biggest bargain in aviation. I got completely fleeced in the 90’s and early 2000’s. I pay close to what I pay for car/truck insurance now.I have a late year Husky which isn't cheap and my premiums are crazy low in my opinion. Hull value over 300k, no accidents, incidents, violations, DUI’s, 58 years old and I am paying $2,028 per year, I just renewed a few months ago.
Yes its going up but its still a lot less than it was. I am bothered by the step increases of older pilots, that is bothersome. I realize that some have had some shockingly high increases but all in all I still think its pretty darn reasonable in the lower 48 for most.
Last edited by G44; 01-17-2022 at 12:23 PM.
I agree with you on the liability. Liability is reasonably priced compared to hull in Alaska. I think its smart to at least have liability. As far as hull, if your paying a reasonable price for hull ( I know, almost never happens in Alaska) I would give that some serious thought before I dropped hull. JMHO.
Don’t under insure your hull value!
If you build or buy a high performance experimental Cub you likely won’t find an insurer to cover investment cost or market value. Avemco caps exp Cub insurance at $200K. Carbon Cubs are pushing $400K in some cases. $300K Cubs are common. I’ll revisit the value cap with Avemco when I change status back to in motion.
For classic Cubs, this can be a real problem. Insurance company had to make an exception to insure my recently fully restored Cub for $90k (in 2009). It didn't matter what was in the Cub, they just had a limit based on its age.
There are three simple rules for making consistently smooth landings. Unfortunately no one knows what they are.
Avemco wouldn't quote hull for my FX-3. I have it insured with Star Insurance Companies using Northwest Insurance Group as agent. I have it insured for declared value. It's expensive but not as expensive as having an accident and not having hull coverage.
Teri Branistre at Northwest was willing to work with me to agree minimum experience requirements for the initial coverage and she has been a pleasure to work with.
Only 76? You should run for president, you have my vote.My -18 renewal at 76 was 1750 for 80K. This is with Global. Avemco was 100 bucks less but their liability was less also.
Avemco said price increases are at 71, 76, and 81.
Wasn't that long ago it was at 1200.
Wasn't that long ago that avemco screwed a lot of us by cancelling commercial ops policies. This would have been around the time when FBOs started disappearing... The next time you renew with them, ask them why they only help rich boys with toys and not the working class in ga.
Ya, why would any for-profit business favor a profitable segment? What were they thinking?
I am gonna guess you can partially thank the youtube guys for this. People keep pushing the limits of their abilities for youtube hits and it ends in lots of wrecked planes. STOL comps with multiple wrecks, guys flying pavement with big tires just cause it looks cool and they can't keep the wingtips outta the dirt (or off the pavement). I would venture a guess that the majority of wrecks that cost the insurance are NOT 135 guys as the majority of the incidents I know of never get turned in and are repaired in house (not to mention that they tend to have less accidents than GA guys because they are more competent at what they do). I learned long ago that anything that moves the SKETCH-O-METER out of the green stays off youtube and social media.
At 78 I changed to Avemco since my former company wanted a check ride every year. Granted it is for a lowly Tcraft but on amphib floats and skis in the winter. Better rates than the last guy and I guess less than having a SC.
Jim
I understand the insurance industry very well, and I know they are in the business to make a lot of money, I don't have a problem with that. But I feel it is fair to point out that when avemco stopped doing commercial policies it hurt ga. The people that rented you a plane, worked on, fueled, hangered you a plane,, those little people,, avemco forgot them. Give them your money if you want, your choice.
They didn’t owe anybody anything. It’s business. My 135 friends all got on with life, and business, without a hitch. They were uncertain at first but everything worked out. Those of us in non-aviation industries face similar issues.
hold on there Tex, I have first Dibs on 87D,,,we go back to the beginning her and I.😬I will give you $80K for it, can be there with the $ next week.
That was almost 25 years ago Boz.
Steve Pierce
Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
Will Rogers
My Dad is 83 years old and Avemco is the only viable insurance for him. His agent told him before he turned 80 that he would need to change and he was right. He probably couldn't have gotten a new policy if he had tried after he turned 80.
25 years? Well hell if I can't do anything else right at least I can hold a grudge. I sure hope ga can hold together for another 25 years, lack of insurance will play a big part in that. Then we will get to be the old guys, flying cubs and swapping stories about the good old days around the fire.
SJ says I have the memory of an elephant in that regard.
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