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Stewart System review

If I can get a decent paint booth set up it’ll look really good!
This is today's work with my home made, positive pressure spray booth in the middle of my shop. Costco carport tubes, corners and top tarp from A1tarps.com, zippered sides from a craft show booth and a big fan from Lowes. Filters are for a standard spray booth. Lights are from Costco; I have three on each side for my 15' booth. The booth will be set up for 20' for my Cub in a couple months. It works really well and the paint is dust free and clean. When weather is nice, I do all my EkoFill and primer outside in the shade.

Marty57

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Ok, I gotta ask, is it consistent? Can you get a nice shiny finish that flows out, no orange peel every time? Jason Gerard use to work for me. He went out on his own and then went to work for Stewarts. He came down several years for our seminar and we covered and painted. We could never get a consistent finish. I have talked to others that had the same experience. I recently stayed with Dan and Marjie Stewart and Dan and I stayed up very late (for me anyway) and I got the whole story and break throughs. I understand the new paint is way better. My question is can I paint an aileron today and it flow out nice and a wing 2 months from now and they look the same? I have used every system out there but have always gone back to Poly-Fiber with a Ranthane top coat. I really want to get away from having a 55 gallon drum of MEK but I also can't afford to eat my time fussing with the finish paint.
 
Marty did you spray white before that gray?
On this wing, I sprayed charcoal gray EkoPrime over the EkoFill before the topcoat. I prefer white but the tail feathers were already done over just EkoFill so I needed the color match and be the same. I shoot one good cross coat of EkoPrime over all my work; I like the final smooth sanded finish of EkoPrime better than just EkoFill. On a wing this big, I shoot my 3 fog coats and stop. I than come back the next day (24 hours) and inspect tor dirt or other issues and then dry sand lightly with 320 and scotchbrite over tapes and bumps like rivets. Then blow and wipe clean, very light clean with 90% Isopropyl alcohol followed by tack cloth than paint.

Steve, to answer your question yes, I can get that same shine and look each time months apart. This Waco has four wings and a center section that has to be all the same and shot months apart. The most important factor for me is lighting. With the lights I have in my booth, I can look at a low angles to see that my wet coat is flowing and has filled the area just painted. Two bays at a time just to the center on this wide wing is all I can reach. I’m methodical about everything being the same each time I paint and it is very repeatable. Got this silver metallic, I shoot with 26 to 27 seconds viscosity and 27 psi at mu Finishline 4 gun. Material tor wet coat is 1-1/2 turn and fan wide open. If you use other guns you need to figure out your settings. TeknaPro has finer threads on material so is its open about 1/2 turn.

Marty57
 
Ok, I gotta ask, is it consistent? Can you get a nice shiny finish that flows out, no orange peel every time? Jason Gerard use to work for me. He went out on his own and then went to work for Stewarts. He came down several years for our seminar and we covered and painted. We could never get a consistent finish. I have talked to others that had the same experience. I recently stayed with Dan and Marjie Stewart and Dan and I stayed up very late (for me anyway) and I got the whole story and break throughs. I understand the new paint is way better. My question is can I paint an aileron today and it flow out nice and a wing 2 months from now and they look the same? I have used every system out there but have always gone back to Poly-Fiber with a Ranthane top coat. I really want to get away from having a 55 gallon drum of MEK but I also can't afford to eat my time fussing with the finish paint.

Consistency comes from the one pulling the trigger. If you mix and shoot the same, it'll behave the same....good, bad or indifferent.

John
 
Well, that's been my experience, since I first shot the "first generation" paint in 1996....and not just with this paint but every other paint. I've shot the current Ekopoly Premium in 60 degrees (and lower) as well as over 100 and the only times I haven't had good results, are my fault. I've never noticed an inconsistency problem...but I try to keep everything as close to the same every time.
John
 
Ok, I gotta ask, is it consistent? Can you get a nice shiny finish that flows out, no orange peel every time? Jason Gerard use to work for me. He went out on his own and then went to work for Stewarts. He came down several years for our seminar and we covered and painted. We could never get a consistent finish. I have talked to others that had the same experience. I recently stayed with Dan and Marjie Stewart and Dan and I stayed up very late (for me anyway) and I got the whole story and break throughs. I understand the new paint is way better. My question is can I paint an aileron today and it flow out nice and a wing 2 months from now and they look the same? I have used every system out there but have always gone back to Poly-Fiber with a Ranthane top coat. I really want to get away from having a 55 gallon drum of MEK but I also can't afford to eat my time fussing with the finish paint.

i don’t know the answer Steve. I do know I am never going to spray a solvent based system again. Well I guess water is a solvent but you know what I mean. I shot the Pawnee flap in very subpar conditions and it came out really good! If I can’t get this system to work with my Super Cub project I am going to bring the pieces over to the museum who shot the last Pawnee my club had recovered.
 
Well, that's been my experience, since I first shot the "first generation" paint in 1996....and not just with this paint but every other paint. I've shot the current Ekopoly Premium in 60 degrees (and lower) as well as over 100 and the only times I haven't had good results, are my fault. I've never noticed an inconsistency problem...but I try to keep everything as close to the same every time.
John
No orange peel or dry spots? That was my issue and Jason's. I also talked to several people who used the system and they had the exact same issue. I have heard great things about the new paint but have been apprehensive to change something that I know works. Since you have never had an issue with it that tells me to stick to what I am using because we all know the definition of insanity, to continue to do the same thing and expect a different result.
 
I really struggled through my paint phase....I only ever covered one Cub before this one (my J3) and that one I did in polyfiber....I really do like the Stewart’s because of the non solvent nature of it, but it requires practice, and I used the recommended gun at the same or a little higher pressure than Marty with mixed results. My metal all flowed beautifully...then I’d spray fabric in the same booth during the same session and it would orange peel. It was a struggle until I was almost done with all of the paint when I started getting better....still, even in my positive pressure booth with very large compressor and following directions to the letter...I had some inconsistencies. The Ekofill is a snap...it sprays easy...EkoPrime was a snap on metal..but would orange peel on fabric until I learned to clean my tip often...the EkoPrime would gum up the small ports after the fog coats and I would have to clean it before the next ones. No so with the Ekopoly...that stuff stayed flowing pretty well throughout a spray session....but if you do one thing wrong you seem to get orange peel. I think I could do better if I started a new paint project today...but you can see my progression if you look closely at my plane...orange peel on the landing gear, some sanding fails on the fuselage that Looked good until the next day after flow out I could see some pockets that didn’t sand out well enough and the paint flowed out and settled in a void I had not seen while sanding out the EkoPrime. My plane looks fine, and I’m not looking for a Lindy, but it took a lot of practice. Will I use it again? Yes, but I don’t do it for a living so I can build off what I learned without too much consequence. The stuff looks beautiful once you get it down and it seems to be rugged and flexible. I really love....love the system up through the 3:1 brush coat of Ekobond.....I love the Ekobond....very nice product.
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The draw to Stewarts for me is the excellent flexibility of the finished job/topcoat.

That little 3”x3” swatch of topcoated fabric that some of the Stewarts guys have carried around FOR YEARS scrunched in their pocket blows away every other covering system I know.

That Stewarts doesnt stink or kill my coworkers, office staff, customers, dog, or me....and that the glue is SOOOO easy to work are just plusses.

We need to get to consistent topcoating gloss to really top off the process
 
Let me offer a little perspective If I may. I have only shot Stewart Systems; I have not painted or covered with PolyFiber. As such, If I were to try to use Polyfiber I would run into problems; probably the same issues I first encountered with Stewart Systems. It would take me a lot of time and practice to get consistent since I have no idea how to spray a solvent based system. I'm sure my first attempt would have problems. It takes practice to get to the level of the guys who shoot and paint on a daily basis. This is not an excuse for issues some guys have; it's just my perspective as a teacher for 30+ years; there is a learning curve to everything. I am more than happy to help anyone who is having issues.

Let's talk about orange peel; an issue for many users. Orange peel starts with your first fog coat, not your last wet coat. If there is any gloss to your fog coat than too much paint has been applied. Fog coats are quick and light. First should only cover to about 30% color saturation. You should still see your base color as the primary hue after your first fog coat. It should look like wispy clouds way up high against a blue sky. Fog coats need to be so light that the paint sticks and does not move. If it's too heavy, it tries to flow than sticks and starts the orange peel. Each coat will than increases the amount of orange peel. You don't use much paint for the fog coats. On the wing I posted pictures of here, I only used 400 grams of paint for three fog coats, and I had paint left over. That's not a lot of paint. For me, and this is just me, I shoot the three fogs on a wing than stop. I come back 24 hours later and inspect for dirt or any other issues and than scotchbrite and dry sand the surface lightly, blow and wipe, and clean the wing for final coat. That takes me about two hours. I get tired after three fog coat and I need to be fresh for the wet coat. If I messed up and have orange peel I remove it in this sanding process. I figure that time into any estimate I make for a wing. I than mix my paint and do one fog and than one wet coat. Lighting is key and a low angle viewing to see if I have dry places with not enough paint is critical. My mix with the DuPont viscosity cup for the silver metalic was 27 seconds. But, on the metal Ford cup, the same mix was reading 24-25 seconds. Turns out, not all viscosity cups are the same as they are calibrated with mineral oil, not paint .... go figure that one out. The higher numbers have worked well for metallic as it flows different witn all the suspended metal in the paint. Solid paints I run a lower number, but I like 24-25 seconds with my DuPont cup (no longer available). I also upped the pressure from the mfg recommended 23 psi and use 27-28 psi. I find it attomizes the paint better (use the 1.3 tip). I suspect they recommend 23 to get the lower voc's to make the EPA happy vs unhappy paint. I use a material setting of about 1-1/8 turn for foggs; 1-1/2 for wet on the FinishLine 4 gun. I think one of the variables we all have here is compressed air temp and moisture in the air. I use a homemade cooler where all my air passes through an automotive a/c condenser before going into the storage tank so my air is very cool and dry. Does that change my numbers some, I think it might. You will have to experiment with your set up. As stated above, material setting is completely different on different guns so you must figure out your gun. For the final fog and wet coat, I used 900 grams of paint for this wing, over twice the original fog coats. If you are doing the paint in one setting; make sure each coat tacks up so there is no transfer to your knuckle; time will vary with your temp and humidity so be patient or you will get solvent pops (water is the solvent). I typically shoot around 70 degrees and humidity around 60%; I won't shoot over 70%. I also write everything down for the different colors I use to keep track of my numbers for repeatability. Everytime I shoot a new color, I shoot a test panel; cheap insurance.

I wish we could make a paint that is as simple as 1+2 = 3 but there are just too many variables for that to be realistic. Andy usually has "practice paint" in the warehouse available. It's just overstock or wrong color match, etc that he sells at a very reduced cost. Before you give it a go on airworthy parts, try it out on a practice panel first.

Please let me know if you are really stuck and i can help you get through it. For me, eliminating solvents in my shop was the biggest factor in product choice. If the system you are using works and you feel safe using it than stick to it. I suspect it won't be long before solvent based paints are more difficult to purchase, just like the trends for oil based stains and other paints. I hope this helps a bit.

Marty57
 
No orange peel or dry spots? That was my issue and Jason's. I also talked to several people who used the system and they had the exact same issue. I have heard great things about the new paint but have been apprehensive to change something that I know works. Since you have never had an issue with it that tells me to stick to what I am using because we all know the definition of insanity, to continue to do the same thing and expect a different result.

I've had dry spots.....not enough paint on the surface.....look in the mirror to see the problem.
I've had orange peel..... poor technique, wrong air, etc...there's a list of them....again, on me.

A waterborne is never (with present technology) going to spray or behave like a high solids, solvent based paint. I know that. I spent years shooting them. I love them, other than they kill you. I had to learn everything different, from the very get go. It wasn't a 5 minute lesson that broke 20 years of habits. I put a lot of time in to break those habits.
I'll ignore the insult. I'm not wanting to get in a match on that. I simply stated that those weren't issues that I'd had that was the fault of the product, and not fault of me. I actually think there's no way you'd be happy with it, and that's fine. Some people drive Ford, some Chevy.
What does amaze me is that there are literally thousands out there that are happy with it, and don't have trouble. My paint jobs aren't perfect every time...I have muscle problems...from poisoning... If I HAVE to have it absolutely perfect, I can spend extra time to cut and buff, but I've seen very few jobs that are perfect.
John
 
I wasn't trying to insult you and not sure where I did. I respect your experience with it and have some concerns. I can wait for a certain temperature and a certain humidity. I will PM you for a better dialogue.
 
Put the paddle stir on a drill press and turn it on slow, then leave it stir for a half hour or so. My favorite stirer is 5 links of light chain, welded on the end of a 14" rod. It does a fantastic job of mixing, but doesn't beat up the can or cause bubbles.
I've stirred product well over a year old and had it all go back in. The other thing I use is a rock tumbler to turn the can kind of like a cement mixer. A couple hours of that and it will stay in suspension for quite a while.
John
I've been working on a small project which has 25 square feet of fabric to finish. The entire project is made from "spare" parts. When it came time to use the EkoFill, I had a 10 year old 3/4 of a gallon left over. It clearly states to use within one year of purchase. 2/3s of it had solidified enough so that a stir stick would not penetrate. So I attached a bolt to a drill rod with a hose clamp and put it in the drill press. After a while it was all mixed ready to use, totally mixed. It came out fine. The last few cross coats were sprayed with the temperatures in the low 50s. No issues.
 
I am kicking around the idea of stripping the gel coat off my glider and redoing it with Stewart’s. Has anyone done long fiberglass wings with it? It’s pretty common to refinish a glider with Polyurethane.
 
I am kicking around the idea of stripping the gel coat off my glider and redoing it with Stewart’s. Has anyone done long fiberglass wings with it? It’s pretty common to refinish a glider with Polyurethane.

This is a picture of a fiberglass cowl for a Citabria recently shot by the owner up in Canada. This was his first attempt at using our system after one of our seminars. No reason you can't do the wings on the glider.
Marty57

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The draw to Stewarts for me is the excellent flexibility of the finished job/topcoat.


^^^ This^^^

And.... the safer (not hazard free) but safer application.

15ish years ago I recovered my cub in Airtech. It was my first job with that system, and it came out pretty flippin' amazing for an amateur. I mean it was show & go shiny and everything flowed out awesome....

And then I had the mis fortune of parking it under a hail storm. The actual hail damage was something no system was going to do well with. I mean it had 66 holes in it with several going through both surfaces :evil: But what made me steer away from Airtech right then and there was that when we cut the fabric off (hardly a year old by then) the coating was snapping off the fabric like lays potato chips.

The holes were enough to necessitate a recover, but the entire upper surface was ringwormed from the hail. I don't believe that would have happened with the Stewarts.

I guess we're about 14 years or so in this covering, and it's been rode hard and put away wet (literally on many occasions) and while it's not a show stopper, it certainly isn't ready to be cut off yet. And the only cracks in the finish are where it has been mishandled.

I am currently recovering a set of Ag Cat tail feathers for a friend, and a set of Turbine Thrush tail feathers for myself. I can't think of a much harsher environment for a cover job, but I am confident that the Stewarts will be up to the task. Including the regular wash with the pressure washer.

Take care, Rob
 
This is a picture of a fiberglass cowl for a Citabria recently shot by the owner up in Canada. This was his first attempt at using our system after one of our seminars. No reason you can't do the wings on the glider.
Marty57

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Marty do you think I can wet sand Ekopoly Premium? I am talking 1000 and 1200 grit 3M sandpaper followed by rubbing compound.
 
Marty do you think I can wet sand Ekopoly Premium? I am talking 1000 and 1200 grit 3M sandpaper followed by rubbing compound.
Charlie,
Yes, you can wet sand if necessary. I have done 1500 followed by 2000 wet than McGuires Diamond cut as a polish. It would be great if removing a run or other issue such as blending. Wet sand after a good 24 hours works well; longer to ket a run fully dry. I used this process to sand out brush marks when I had to do a repair and spraying was not available in the hangar the plane was located in.
Marty57
 
Charlie,
Yes, you can wet sand if necessary. I have done 1500 followed by 2000 wet than McGuires Diamond cut as a polish. It would be great if removing a run or other issue such as blending. Wet sand after a good 24 hours works well; longer to ket a run fully dry. I used this process to sand out brush marks when I had to do a repair and spraying was not available in the hangar the plane was located in.
Marty57

OK cool! I am going to do the horizontal tail feathers on my Schleicher ASW-20 glider at the end of the season.
 
I know it's short notice, but I'm doing a three day Stewart Systems seminar mid June in California. There was a lot of interest on this post so just wanted to let guys know what's coming up. I'll also be teaching at Airventure again this year if you have questions or just want to give it a quick try.

Marty57
 
I intend to be in attendance a session or two at Kosh.

It will be nice to be back to Oshkosh this year. I'm going to dedicate one day to double covering for guys interested in that. I'll be down by the ultralite red barn again this year; also a couple forums down that way.

Marty57
 
Yah it will be nice to get back, this being my 40th year, granted I have not been there every one of those. Still go there to learn.
 
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