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Thread: Stewart System review

  1. #1
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Stewart System review

    Doing a Pawnee flap with a waterborne system, I’ve only been involved with one time before in the wet, cool PNW. Didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night but did watch the YouTube videos on covering a flap this morning.

    What could go wrong, Murder Hornets?

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    Got tired of wearing a respirator when doing dope-
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    Right off I found out my hangar is too cool to use the glue easily. I tried turning up the heat to 65 but the glue wouldn’t tack up very well. So I moved into the office. I am using heavy fabric and the soak through method they demonstrate doesn’t work that good with it. If I do my Super Cub project with Stewart’s I’ll mostly be using medium.

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    Last edited by Charlie Longley; 01-11-2021 at 11:18 PM.
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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Can't be in a rush with Stewarts. Give it time, and maybe a second coat. Maybe Marty57 will chime in?
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Stewart System review

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Can't be in a rush with Stewarts. Give it time, and maybe a second coat. Maybe Marty57 will chime in?
    Clocks ticking on your bill at $1.50 a minute......


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  4. #4
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    Can't be in a rush with Stewarts. Give it time, and maybe a second coat. Maybe Marty57 will chime in?
    Ive already talked with Marty quite a bit. I am just reviewing the system. Trying to decide if I want to use it on my Super Cub project.

  5. #5
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Clocks ticking on your bill at $1.50 a minute......


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    That’s exactly what I charge. Cutting the owner of the Pawnee a break though cause I wanted to try out the Stewart System. It’s very labor intensive. If I had been doing Polyfiber today it would’ve been much further along.
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  6. #6
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    "Clocks ticking on your bill at $1.50 a minute......" Run and check your anodizing pot
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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  7. #7
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Longley View Post
    That’s exactly what I charge. Cutting the owner of the Pawnee a break though cause I wanted to try out the Stewart System. It’s very labor intensive. If I had been doing Polyfiber today it would’ve been much further along.
    Dunno, I've done both and I think each has its advantages. I hated the polyfiber glue, but that was like 40 years ago so probably doesn't mean much. To be honest, I struggled with Stewarts at first. But once I got it a little bit figured out, it seemed fine. Just one opinion - - -
    Gordon

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  8. #8
    Marty57's Avatar
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    Tack time on the glue, before applying the fabric, is controlled by a few different things. Temp is one but not that critical although cooler temps will take longer for tack, as will high humidity. I work typically 60-70 degrees; have done it in the 90's. Biggest cause of slow tack time is putting on the glue too thick. Give it time to tack; won't take more than 15-20 minutes at 65 degrees unless too thick. The glue on the flap needs to be thin; it just holds the fabric in place as you wrap the flap. The strength of the joint is the 1" minimum overlap of the fabric. If you are having problems with the glue penetrating the fabric, you can thin it down 10% with distilled water for better penetration (in the manual). I'm covering in my garage right now, temps around 60 degrees so the temps you are dealing with should be fine. One more hint, do two control surfaces at the same time. Put the glue on one and move on to the second. When you have the glue on the second, the first is ready to apply the fabric. No standing around watching the glue dry necessary.
    Marty57
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  9. #9
    mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    "Clocks ticking on your bill at $1.50 a minute......" Run and check your anodizing pot


    My shop project. Not a customer project yet. Still practicing


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  10. #10
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    My shop project. Not a customer project yet. Still practicing
    I know - was just kidding you..
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

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    The Eko-Poly Paint takes some practice to get nice smooth finish...I had some orange peel..by the time I painted my last parts I was pretty good, but it’s finicky and it’s very important to exactly follow procedures....weigh it! It’s the only accurate way IMO that’s why the instructions switched over to weight instead of using a measuring cup. The Paint is beautiful after it flies out, and the rest of the system extremely nice.
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  12. #12
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    I could do a short review of a rudder I did in Stewarts. At the same time I was doing an aileron in Ceconite.

    I think i posted before about it, but: The Stewarts on the rudder was waaayyyyy faster than the ceconite, the glue was a joy to use because of the ease of pressing fabric onto the structure without clamps, and Stewarts doesnt burn you up when the plane catches fire!!

    For those who dont know: Stewarts glue is brushed onto the structure and allowed to dry, then the fabric is draped onto the structure and pressed into place. If you need to adjust the lay, you can pull it up and re drape (wonderful for rudder curves, etc). After this, iron over the glue line and apply glue over the whole joint.

    I had no problem at all with the topcoat. It sprayed beautifully! And I have lotsa bad habits from auto paints and Stits/Superflie/Ceconite!!

    Give peace a chance Charlie
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    Marty57's Avatar
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    Here's a suggestion on the orange peel issues. The Finishline 4 gun from DeVilbiss that I uses has a suggested pressure of 23psi. I suspect that is the pressure they needed to get the gun certified for a specific voc. If you increase your pressure, you will get better atomization. Also, make sure, whatever gun you use, use a 1.3 tip. When I shot the silver metalic on the Waco project, I used "26 square" as I have been calling it. That's the pressure at 26 psi and the viscosity at 26-27 seconds. Viscosity with metalic has to be a little different to account for the metal in suspension. The orange peel sets itself up in the first fog coats so shoot very light, no gloss at all. I have also done large wings in three stages. First, I shoot the three fog coats on the wing. Pressure at 26, viscosity at 26, material open about one turn. I shoot three or four fog coats than stop for the day. 24 hours later, I come back and sand with 320 (dry) and red scotch brite (over tapes) to remove any trash, dirt, etc that may have settled in the paint. I blow and clean the paint, than shoot the final fog and the wet coat at 1-15 open on material knob. I do this because by the time I am done with the fog coats, I'm getting tired reaching and I'm not fresh, just me ...... It takes three hours to scuff sand before the second application of paint. I know that isn't great for many due to the labor cost but it works for me, just something to think about. Smaller parts, control surfaces, etc i do in one application. I also mix only enough paint for the fogs and mix fresh for wet coat. I did have an issue on a hot day that toward the 2-1/2 to 3 hour mark the paint wasn't flowing through the filter very well so I mixed new paint. With solid paints, you can use the higher viscosity numbers also. shoot with your viscosity around 23 seconds or even a little higher, 24 is ok. I have found that the viscosity cups lose their accuracy when you get close to 21 seconds and you can wind up with way too much water in the mix and not know it. It really is important to practice first. Make a few wood frames and cover with fabric and practice the entire process. Do two frames; shoot one for mistakes (too close, to fast, cause a run, sag, etc). shoot the second for perfection. The perfect one will make great prepainted patches should you ever kick up a rock. I still do practice panels with paint colors I have not shot before and to show customers difference between clear vs straight top coat.

    These are just a few ideas that may help moving from ok to excellent with your paint.

    Marty 57
    N367PS
    Psalm 36:7 "High and low among men find refuge in the shadow of His wing"
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  14. #14
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Back working on the flap after finishing a glider Annual.

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    I was a little dubious of the glue but the fabric tightened up just fine when I ironed it.

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    Speaking of Irons. I got this Fabric Pro iron recently. It’s waaay better than the old clothing irons I’ve been using! The digital thermometer is nice.

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    Figuring out how to tape.

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    I liked Marty’s system of controlling the glue pot so I copied it.
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    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    Being a flap, I'd double cover it, but that's me. Is that the iron that Consolidated puts out???
    John

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    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    Being a flap, I'd double cover it, but that's me. Is that the iron that Consolidated puts out???
    John
    I don’t think they put it out but they endorse it-
    https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...ro09-05728.php
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  17. #17
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Put a damp paper towel over your glue cup and it won't dry out as quick.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  18. #18
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Put a damp paper towel over your glue cup and it won't dry out as quick.
    Yep I’ve been doing that. The pic was from the end of the day.

  19. #19
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Jason Gerard taught me that and I just spent last weekend in Cashmere with Dan and Marjie Stewart. Got a lot of history on the fabric system. Was an interesting visit.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  20. #20
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Jason Gerard taught me that and I just spent last weekend in Cashmere with Dan and Marjie Stewart. Got a lot of history on the fabric system. Was an interesting visit.
    Ahh man you should’ve swung by and said hi!
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  21. #21
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Charlie looks like you need a little more practice, I’ll send you a few controls you can cover for me, for old time sakes,LOL. Looks good. Hope they lift the restrictions, maybe we can get together up at my place in Seldovia and do some fishing.

  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Longley View Post
    Ahh man you should’ve swung by and said hi!
    Got there Saturday afternoon, had Dan school me on some stuff on Sunday, loaded a truck full of tools, jigs and fixtures and busted out Monday morning ahead of that weather they got Monday evening. It was a quick trip. Hope to make it back up there to enjoy the area.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    Being a flap, I'd double cover it, but that's me. Is that the iron that Consolidated puts out???
    John


    It is a Fabric Pro Iron, I just got one over the holidays, took 3 days to get it from California. Really fast shipping

    It is a first class iron, comes with a case that you store it in even if semi warm, has a silicone pad to rest it on that does not melt so you can place it down and not burn something., 1 year warrantee, temp range is 176-356 degrees, comes in 110/115 US voltage or 220 for European use. you specify.


    S&M Innovations LLC. has them made to their specs or make s them themselves, I do not see China anywhere on it or the directions.
    (619)517-0840, ask for Stephen, or his e-mail is shillardn@gmail.com.

    I do not work for them as I am in NC.
    Just reporting on a good product.

    Ken
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  24. #24
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Got there Saturday afternoon, had Dan school me on some stuff on Sunday, loaded a truck full of tools, jigs and fixtures and busted out Monday morning ahead of that weather they got Monday evening. It was a quick trip. Hope to make it back up there to enjoy the area.
    You’re welcome anytime! I have a spare bedroom.
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  25. #25
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Well the flap is ready to spray. I was hoping it would warm up a little but no dice. We’ll see how the primer and paint likes a 65 degree hangar.

    it was a bit of a learning curve. I think time wise it’s about the same as Poly Fiber. The hardest part was getting the seaplane drain doilies on. I figured out a technique on the third one.

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  26. #26

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    65 degrees should be just fine.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

  27. #27
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boarfish View Post
    65 degrees should be just fine.
    I had orange peel issues with the finish coats at 65 degrees. Better luck at 70+.
    N1PA
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  28. #28
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I had orange peel issues with the finish coats at 65 degrees. Better luck at 70+.
    I might spray it in my parts room.

  29. #29
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Run test panels to get your gun adjusted optimally.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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  30. #30
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    This paint loves heat. Just something to think about. I've shot lots at 60-65, but it likes 80-90 even better. The biggest difference you'll notice is long wait times between coats as the temp drops. When you get the Ekofill on, give it at LEAST 24 hours in a warm room to dry. Longer is better.
    John
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  31. #31
    KJC's Avatar
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    Regarding seaplane grommets; I did my first Stewart System elevator like I had always done dope and Polyfiber and made doilies for the grommets. I soon learned however you don’t need doilies with Stewart’s. Take the gromet and rub the backside on some medium grit emery cloth to remove any glaze then glue it on. Done. Yep, seems like you are skipping an important step leaving the doilies off but you don’t need them. If your unconvinced, glue one on and try to remove it with a pair of needle nose pliers. It won’t come off without distorting the gromet and the fabric. Also the glue doesn’t dry out like dope.
    PA-12 N418BS
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  32. #32
    Marty57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Longley View Post
    Well the flap is ready to spray. I was hoping it would warm up a little but no dice. We’ll see how the primer and paint likes a 65 degree hangar.

    it was a bit of a learning curve. I think time wise it’s about the same as Poly Fiber. The hardest part was getting the seaplane drain doilies on. I figured out a technique on the third one.

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    Before you spray, don't forget to fill the weave with 3:1 Ekobond to distilled water by weight as per our manual.

    Marty57
    N367PS
    Psalm 36:7 "High and low among men find refuge in the shadow of His wing"
    www.marty2plus2.com
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  33. #33
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty57 View Post
    Before you spray, don't forget to fill the weave with 3:1 Ekobond to distilled water by weight as per our manual.

    Marty57
    Yep will do Marty. I’ve been following the manual and your videos closely.

    Charlie
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  34. #34
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJC View Post
    Regarding seaplane grommets; I did my first Stewart System elevator like I had always done dope and Polyfiber and made doilies for the grommets. I soon learned however you don’t need doilies with Stewart’s. Take the gromet and rub the backside on some medium grit emery cloth to remove any glaze then glue it on. Done. Yep, seems like you are skipping an important step leaving the doilies off but you don’t need them. If your unconvinced, glue one on and try to remove it with a pair of needle nose pliers. It won’t come off without distorting the gromet and the fabric. Also the glue doesn’t dry out like dope.
    The problem I have had is over the years the grommets dry out and shrink and then start popping off.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  35. #35
    hottshot's Avatar
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    I did a set of Super STOL wings this summer and with the help of Monika it was a breeze!! Im getting ready to strip my Maule and do it next... Maybe I should finish the Cub first....
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  36. #36
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    She's sharp and does excellent work!
    John

  37. #37
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    Well I finally got started on spraying the flap. Right off I can tell spraying with the part vertical isn’t going to work at 65 degrees. I thought I was spraying the first cross coat pretty light but it ran anyway. I know Poly or butyrate silver wouldn’t have run in these conditions. My plan is to spray one or two more cross coats, sand and see what I have.

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    The solids are much harder to dredge up then the other two systems I use.

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    The bay areas were fine but it ran at the tapes.

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  38. #38
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Wipe it with a piece of scrap fabric and turn it flat while still wet.
    N1PA

  39. #39
    Marty57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Longley View Post

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    The solids are much harder to dredge up then the other two systems I use.

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    You are right, the solids do build up at the bottom of the can. If you didn't get those solids mixed up into the EkoFill before spraying that would cause the runs you have. You were spraying on essentially EkoFill without the solids. You will need a new can of EkoFill at this point as the mix will be way off with the amount of solids still in the can. You can use a paint mixer in an electric drill motor to mix in the solids. Use a paint stir stick to dislodge first, than use the drill motor to mix. 65 degrees won't cause any issues; I shoot EkoFill at 60 regularly. PM me if you like and I can give you more insight into the process or go over the issues you are having over the phone.


    Marty57
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  40. #40
    Charlie Longley's Avatar
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    I got all the solids mixed back in before I sprayed. Doing the second coat now with the flap laid flat.

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