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Thread: C130 too close and no radio contact

  1. #41
    JimParker256's Avatar
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    Years ago, I was flying an Army OH-58A through one of the MOAs around Edwards AFB. The controlling agency for the MOA contacted us, and said there were some fast-movers launching, and asked if we would be OK with them attempting to do an "intercept" on us, for training purposes. I replied that it would be fine, and asked if they wanted me to make it easy for them, or give them a challenge... Without skipping a beat (but with laughter in the background), they replied "give 'em a workout, if you can."

    So we dropped down to extreme low-level (unpopulated desert area) and began operating in our usual tactical mode – flying "nap of the earth" (as low as terrain and obstacles permit). That also meant that we slowed way down, as we began picking our way through the lowest part of the valleys, keeping everything except the main rotor below the level of the mesquite and hilltops.

    Pretty soon, we saw (and heard!) a couple of fast-movers (I can't remember the type, but given the era, probably F-15s) go roaring up the valley, about a mile away from our track... They were clearly trying to find us along our last radar track. We found a night tight confined area with terrain on three sides, and ducked into it to see if they had spotted us. Pretty soon, they came roaring back down the valley, this time a little slower, like they realized they must have overflown us, and were now looking a lot harder.

    As soon as they were well beyond us, we hightailed it for the top rim of the valley, following gulleys, washes, and anything that would mask us from them and provide terrain cover from their onboard radar. Just below the top of the ridgeline, we found a promontory we could mask behind, while still seeing them approach. Pretty soon the two jets came flying by, this time MUCH slower, well below us in the valley, and clearly befuddled. About that time, I got a call from the controller, asking if we were still in the area, and if we'd seen the interceptors. I told them I was looking right at them. Then one of the jet jockeys came on the radio, saying we were doing a good job of hiding from them...

    I laughed, and asked if they wanted to know the tactics we were using. After all, the whole point of the exercise is that "steel sharpens steel" and to learn from each other, right? And I said we didn't get that many chances to play "air-to-air" with the Air Force guys...

    Unusually for fighter jocks, they said "Yes," so we explained (without telling them exactly where we were) what we'd been doing. Pretty soon, they came over again, and this time they spotted us, and began to maneuver against us. For the next 20 minutes or so, they would try to maneuver such that they could dive on us with guns/missiles, and we would hop to the opposite side of the ridgeline (where they could no longer line up on us) or fly directly towards them (thus steepening their dive angle until they had to break off). Sometimes we would do both – jump over the ridge, then fly along the ridgeline towards them, forcing #2 to radically alter their attack sequence.

    Now I realize that (in a real-world combat situation) they heat-seeking missiles likely could have made short work of us – if they could have gotten a lock-on. That was the point of forcing them to steepen the dive angle every time they made a run at us... They didn't have enough time to find us again, then initiate the dive and get stabilized for the "lock"... Had the fighters gone to altitude and dived on us, they could easily have locked on, but that would have also potentially made them vulnerable to AA fire. They could also have split up slightly, one on each side of the ridgeline, but "leaving your wingman" is apparently not just a bad thing in movies like "Top Gun" – it's a real thing...

    Anyway, we had some fun, got some good training in, and helped our fellow service-members improve their tactics against helicopters. And it certainly broke up the monotony of a somewhat lengthy cross-country flight across some boring desert terrain... Good times!
    Jim Parker
    2007 Rans S-6ES
    Thanks Rob, 40m thanked for this post

  2. #42

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    Find out where they’re based, google to find out who is the base commander, and drop an email. Watch behavior change.


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  3. #43

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    C17 and C130 are probably monitoring 121.5......yell at them on that!

  4. #44
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  5. #45
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Hogs would have found you!!


    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    Years ago, I was flying an Army OH-58A through one of the MOAs around Edwards AFB. The controlling agency for the MOA contacted us, and said there were some fast-movers launching, and asked if we would be OK with them attempting to do an "intercept" on us, for training purposes. I replied that it would be fine, and asked if they wanted me to make it easy for them, or give them a challenge... Without skipping a beat (but with laughter in the background), they replied "give 'em a workout, if you can."

    So we dropped down to extreme low-level (unpopulated desert area) and began operating in our usual tactical mode – flying "nap of the earth" (as low as terrain and obstacles permit). That also meant that we slowed way down, as we began picking our way through the lowest part of the valleys, keeping everything except the main rotor below the level of the mesquite and hilltops.

    Pretty soon, we saw (and heard!) a couple of fast-movers (I can't remember the type, but given the era, probably F-15s) go roaring up the valley, about a mile away from our track... They were clearly trying to find us along our last radar track. We found a night tight confined area with terrain on three sides, and ducked into it to see if they had spotted us. Pretty soon, they came roaring back down the valley, this time a little slower, like they realized they must have overflown us, and were now looking a lot harder.

    As soon as they were well beyond us, we hightailed it for the top rim of the valley, following gulleys, washes, and anything that would mask us from them and provide terrain cover from their onboard radar. Just below the top of the ridgeline, we found a promontory we could mask behind, while still seeing them approach. Pretty soon the two jets came flying by, this time MUCH slower, well below us in the valley, and clearly befuddled. About that time, I got a call from the controller, asking if we were still in the area, and if we'd seen the interceptors. I told them I was looking right at them. Then one of the jet jockeys came on the radio, saying we were doing a good job of hiding from them...

    I laughed, and asked if they wanted to know the tactics we were using. After all, the whole point of the exercise is that "steel sharpens steel" and to learn from each other, right? And I said we didn't get that many chances to play "air-to-air" with the Air Force guys...

    Unusually for fighter jocks, they said "Yes," so we explained (without telling them exactly where we were) what we'd been doing. Pretty soon, they came over again, and this time they spotted us, and began to maneuver against us. For the next 20 minutes or so, they would try to maneuver such that they could dive on us with guns/missiles, and we would hop to the opposite side of the ridgeline (where they could no longer line up on us) or fly directly towards them (thus steepening their dive angle until they had to break off). Sometimes we would do both – jump over the ridge, then fly along the ridgeline towards them, forcing #2 to radically alter their attack sequence.

    Now I realize that (in a real-world combat situation) they heat-seeking missiles likely could have made short work of us – if they could have gotten a lock-on. That was the point of forcing them to steepen the dive angle every time they made a run at us... They didn't have enough time to find us again, then initiate the dive and get stabilized for the "lock"... Had the fighters gone to altitude and dived on us, they could easily have locked on, but that would have also potentially made them vulnerable to AA fire. They could also have split up slightly, one on each side of the ridgeline, but "leaving your wingman" is apparently not just a bad thing in movies like "Top Gun" – it's a real thing...

    Anyway, we had some fun, got some good training in, and helped our fellow service-members improve their tactics against helicopters. And it certainly broke up the monotony of a somewhat lengthy cross-country flight across some boring desert terrain... Good times!
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  6. #46
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    C130 too close and no radio contact

    Meanwhile over Plattsburgh, Beta has been testing their vtol prototype a lot....

    Note : toprotors removed on this photo for this phase of flight testing.
    (https://www.beta.team)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2939.JPG 
Views:	112 
Size:	361.3 KB 
ID:	53606


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
    Last edited by Farmboy; 01-14-2021 at 08:56 PM.

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  8. #48
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Meanwhile over Plattsburgh, Beta has been testing their vtol prototype a lot....

    Note : toprotors removed on this photo for this phase of flight testing.
    (https://www.beta.team)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_2939.JPG 
Views:	112 
Size:	361.3 KB 
ID:	53606
    What's with painting the "N" number with an 8 instead of a 0?
    N258UT belongs to a Falcon 900.
    https://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInq...umberTxt=258ut
    N1PA

  9. #49

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    N250UT.... they put a slash through the zero.....

  10. #50
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    N250UT.... they put a slash through the zero.....
    Which makes it an 8.
    N1PA
    Likes mam90 liked this post

  11. #51
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    I had flown into Tieton state airstrip at the east end of Rimrock Lake, east of Yakima WA,
    & was walking around with some friends when we thought we heard some vehicle traffic coming on the adjacent road.
    All of a sudden a pair of Navy EA6B Prowlers came blasting through the valley from west to east--
    pretty much right over the strip & at pattern altitude or below.
    We were really glad we were on the ground, not in the air when they came through.
    I've seen several pics of them going through there, now the EA6's are phased out it's EF18 Growlers.
    FWIW Tieton is where CubCrafters takes a lot of their promo pics.
    it's about 5 miles north of a VFR MTR so I guess the jet traffic is legit,
    but it's kinda scary.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  12. #52

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    Vfr charts do not accurately reflect the mtrs in most cases because the routes are anywhere from 2-5 miles wide from either side of the line depicted. Essentially they are corridors to allow for movement within the terrain


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  13. #53

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    Years ago I flew into Tieton State to work on some equipment. Climbing out over the lake in my old C170, two EA6s flew right over my head east to west at what felt way too close.
    It was pretty cool, I hope they saw me.

  14. #54
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    During a visit to my relatives, I rented a 172 in Glendale, AZ, just east of Luke AFB about 15 years ago. While climbing out on the way to Flagstaff that morning with strobes and transponder blazing away, and still well inside the GEU Class D, I had a flight of two F-16s in loose wingtip in a steep bank cross so close in front of me that I could hear them quite clearly; they were LOUD. I was also able to notice that the pilot of the second ship was sporting a blond pony-tail, I'd say they were closer than 300', same altitude.

    Even though I am aware that those chosen to fly such aircraft have been selected in part because they have superior vision and that the tower at GEU and app/dep at Luke have excellent radar, that's too damn close.

    It was awesome.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur
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  15. #55

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    Flying a G2 into Cairo shortly before hostilities broke out in the first gulf war, approach control advised us we had two fast movers at our 10 o’clock moving left to right. After a few seconds we advised we had them in sight and were a little surprised when the controller replied “roger, can you tell us what type they are?” Was kind of hoping they’d know.....

  16. #56
    mvivion's Avatar
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    This stuff isn’t exclusive to military. I had a C-185 fly literally right past my nose, CLOSE, inside the Fairbanks Delta airspace. Asked Tower who that was, and they relied: “Who was?”. They didn’t see him on radar till he turned. Was my first exposure to flying tangential to Doppler radar.

    MTV
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  17. #57
    Mot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carey Gray View Post
    Years ago I flew into Tieton State to work on some equipment. Climbing out over the lake in my old C170, two EA6s flew right over my head east to west at what felt way too close.
    It was pretty cool, I hope they saw me.
    My wife was on Little Bald Mountain Lookout off Chinook pass on the Naches Ranger District in the early 1970s. The lookout sat on the edge of a cliff. E6s would fly by at eye level and give a wave (salute). She couldn't hear them coming. The flag was always flying at the lookout so I think the Pilots liked flying by it.

    Here's a cockpit view from an F18. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4-VHMkHEUQ
    Anyhow, here's the spots I could identify in the video. Washington people may recognize them too. 0:20 Rimrock lake; 0:45 starting up Indian Cr; 1:31 Blankenship meadow; 1:55 starting down Deep Cr; 2:18 Bumping Lake; 6:55 Keechelus lake off the left wing; 7:21 kachess Lake.

    Rimrock to Bumping lake, 15 miles, 1 min 33 seconds = 580 miles per hour. Probably faster with all the turning.
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  18. #58

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    Very cool video.

  19. #59
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyburner View Post
    During a visit to my relatives, I rented a 172 in Glendale, AZ, just east of Luke AFB about 15 years ago. While climbing out on the way to Flagstaff that morning with strobes and transponder blazing away, and still well inside the GEU Class D, I had a flight of two F-16s in loose wingtip in a steep bank cross so close in front of me that I could hear them quite clearly; they were LOUD. I was also able to notice that the pilot of the second ship was sporting a blond pony-tail, I'd say they were closer than 300', same altitude.

    Even though I am aware that those chosen to fly such aircraft have been selected in part because they have superior vision and that the tower at GEU and app/dep at Luke have excellent radar, that's too damn close.

    It was awesome.
    Now I feel like telling my story. 1980--my 2nd solo cross country as a student pilot. I went from Bozeman to Great Falls. Great Falls had a TRSA, which was big and mysterious to me.

    I contacted Approach and got vectors and assigned altitude. So I'm bumping along in my Tomahawk when Approach suddenly tells me to turn right 90 degrees and descend immediately. OK...Then Approach advises traffic at 3:00 approaching overhead, "please advise when in sight."

    Well, I heard them first. Two F 106 Delta Darts from the Montana Air National Guard directly overhead--LOUD and fast--maybe 100 feet above. I told Approach I had them in earshot....

    When I landed I asked an instructor at the FBO about that. He said, "those guys don't talk to anyone until they want to land. They like to wake up students, though."

    Which left me wondering what good a TRSA was.
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