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Advice for a New A&P

Henny

FRIEND
Ely, MN
After a six-month delay due to COVID, I finally finished up school, passed the final two written exams and successfully completed the oral and practical exam to get my A&P license.

Knowing full well that it is just another license to learn, I’m looking for advice from all you salty A&P’s out there on whatever you think is worth passing along (tips, tools, techniques, etc.)

For reference, I will be helping work on the Beavers at work (radials, not turbines; straight Edo’s, no amphibs; de Havilland wheel skis), learning the annual process on my 185 while my IA performs the inspection, potentially doing some work on a Top Cub at work, and hopefully building an experimental or rebuilding a certified Super Cub at some point. No plans to do any work for hire except maybe for a brother or two (which could be a train wreck in itself I guess...).


Thanks in advance for your words of wisdom.


Henny
 
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Know FAR part 43 inside and out. Also get a copy of CAR3 and CAR4 and understand that aircraft certified under these regs are, by law, maintained in accordance with these and NOT part 23. As for the wrench turning, ask questions of the most experienced guys available on any system you might need help with.

Web
 
Henny, Congrats!


  • Like Web said - Just ask a lot of questions.
  • Dont believe everything another mechanic says. Learn to look it up for yourself. (Yes, CAR3, CAR03, CAR4, FARs, & AC43 will be invaluable)
  • Regardless of what some say the FAA is not out to get you. There are asshats everywhere but for every one of those there are a half dozen good ones.
  • Figure out who they are and avoid the asshats and lean on the good ones for advice and assistance.
  • A really good one will lead you to, or point you in, the direction of the information you need but not give it to you. That goes for other mechanics and the FAA.
  • If you start to look it up and learn it for yourself then you become familiar with the regs and the reason for them and will become much more confident in your decisions.
  • Mistakes are part of this. Dont be afraid to make them and learn from them. But, learn to quit while you're ahead. Don't work youself into a mistake.
  • Sometimes there is not an easier way. Sometimes you have to just bust your knuckles to get the job done.
  • No one knows it all.... If you find that guy, avoid him.
  • Keep a book and take good notes for any procedure you will do more than once (Gasket/seal/oring/bolt lengths/torques/vendors/experts/etc.)

Reach out to anyone here for advice or questions.

Congrats Again! - GOOD ON YA!
 
Congrats. Ask a lot of questions and read and research on your own as well. I just bought a 182 and even though I maintained a later model back in the day I have found a treasure trove of information on everything from inspections, modifications and operations. We are in an information era for sure. Have an open mind, don't let anyone bully you into doing something you are uncomfortable with and be careful on those tool trucks. Lots of nice expensive stuff on there. Back in the day pawn shops were a great source for my tools but eBay is a good one now and shopping around for those specialty aviation tools. Number one thing, have fun and never stop learning. It has been a helluva ride for me. ;)
 
Congrats, Henny!

Feel free to wander over to my hangar. Could use some help getting a pile of engine parts making noise again.


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
 
Good on you Henry. Now the learning begins.keep in mind, there are good wrench benders that can’t do paperwork, there are guys that do paperwork well but have trouble with the hands on. Your goal should be to excel at both the hands on and the paperwork side!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
One piece of advice - when working on your own, be aware of liability problems. A pilot can buy liability insurance (and defense lawyers) for under $300/year. A mechanic would need over $5000 for the same coverage. That should tell you something about the relative risk.
 
Way to go, Henny! Happy to hear that you checked that box. Wow, that time went fast! Congratulations!

Randy
 
Get a Borescope and log cylinder trends graphically:

01BFDF0D-23EB-48CB-9719-31358F8C4395.jpeg
 

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One piece of advice - when working on your own, be aware of liability problems. A pilot can buy liability insurance (and defense lawyers) for under $300/year. A mechanic would need over $5000 for the same coverage. That should tell you something about the relative risk.

never have had insurance.. posted notice on the door... if you think you want that, then go someplace else...
 
never have had insurance.. posted notice on the door... if you think you want that, then go someplace else...

Agree, been doing this for 50 years, never had insurance (never had enough assets most of my life to worry about it). Insurance is just an invitation for someone to hope for a big payout! Without insurance, most lawyers will figure they could never collect a contingency fee, so it’s not worth their bother.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I went bare until I was in my mid-30s, then a very bright friend pointed out that I had a social duty if I injured someone or damaged someone else's property. Remember, we have not totally socialized health care, and we are responsible for our actions.

But you are correct - if you have no assets and somebody sues you, you just ignore them. They get a default judgment, and if there is nothing for the sheriff to attach, you don't have to worry.
 
One piece of advice - when working on your own, be aware of liability problems. A pilot can buy liability insurance (and defense lawyers) for under $300/year. A mechanic would need over $5000 for the same coverage. That should tell you something about the relative risk.

A guy I know got his A&P, then his IA, several years ago.
He worked at an airplane shop.
He was always worried about his liability.
Perhaps because of this, he always wanted everything "perfect" (which is usually very expensive),
instead of just airworthy (which usually costs much less).
Surprisingly, he did most of that shop's annual inspections,
I don't know if he signed them off himself or got the boss to.
One of the last jobs he did there was an engine overhaul--
the night before the owner came up pick up the airplane,
he told his boss that he didn't want to accept the responsibility of signing it off.
So the boss had to do it- although he hadn't done any of the work.
He quit very shortly after that--
probably saved his boss the trouble of letting him go.

I guess my point is that if you are gonna have extreme liability concerns,
don't put yourself in the position of having to sign things off.
 
Congrats Henny!!! I used to know a guy that worked on Beavers up there...Jim Harry. Last I talked to him, he was headed to LA to work for PHI. That's some pretty country up there!
Lots of good advice on here!
John
 
Draw your line in the sand now.

Only work for people who want quality.
Only work for people who will pay you what you are worth.


Say no.

Say no. Say no.

My example on this:

Did your previous mechanic complete this service bulletin? Oh yes.

Look at plane (wrapped in vinyl) - screws were covered in vinyl on the area required to be removed for the SB.

And the list continued.

My take on it.....there is an epidemic brewing of poorly maintained airplanes. Owners don't know what is right or they do not want to pay to have work done correctly. Mechanics are sloppy or they just do not know.

Tim
 
Draw your line in the sand now.

Only work for people who want quality.
Only work for people who will pay you what you are worth.


Say no.

Say no. Say no.

My example on this:

Did your previous mechanic complete this service bulletin? Oh yes.

Look at plane (wrapped in vinyl) - screws were covered in vinyl on the area required to be removed for the SB.

And the list continued.

My take on it.....there is an epidemic brewing of poorly maintained airplanes. Owners don't know what is right or they do not want to pay to have work done correctly. Mechanics are sloppy or they just do not know.

Tim

You are gonna work yourself into a new career.
 
Truly appreciate all of the kind words and sage advice.

Know FAR part 43 inside and out. Also get a copy of CAR3 and CAR4 and understand that aircraft certified under these regs are, by law, maintained in accordance with these and NOT part 23. As for the wrench turning, ask questions of the most experienced guys available on any system you might need help with.

Web

Thanks Web. The CAR3 and CAR4 area is something they glossed over at school and that I need to get smart on.

Henny, Congrats!


  • Like Web said - Just ask a lot of questions.
  • Dont believe everything another mechanic says. Learn to look it up for yourself. (Yes, CAR3, CAR03, CAR4, FARs, & AC43 will be invaluable)
  • Regardless of what some say the FAA is not out to get you. There are asshats everywhere but for every one of those there are a half dozen good ones.
  • Figure out who they are and avoid the asshats and lean on the good ones for advice and assistance.
  • A really good one will lead you to, or point you in, the direction of the information you need but not give it to you. That goes for other mechanics and the FAA.
  • If you start to look it up and learn it for yourself then you become familiar with the regs and the reason for them and will become much more confident in your decisions.
  • Mistakes are part of this. Dont be afraid to make them and learn from them. But, learn to quit while you're ahead. Don't work youself into a mistake.
  • Sometimes there is not an easier way. Sometimes you have to just bust your knuckles to get the job done.
  • No one knows it all.... If you find that guy, avoid him.
  • Keep a book and take good notes for any procedure you will do more than once (Gasket/seal/oring/bolt lengths/torques/vendors/experts/etc.)

Reach out to anyone here for advice or questions.

Congrats Again! - GOOD ON YA!

Grant, lots of good advice in here, especially concerning the asshats. I've already got the book started and it keeps growing daily!

and be careful on those tool trucks. Lots of nice expensive stuff on there. Back in the day pawn shops were a great source for my tools but eBay is a good one now and shopping around for those specialty aviation tools.
Stay out of the Snap-on truck unless you absolutely have to...

Learned that lesson early as the truck stops by the seaplane base every Thursday. I did take advantage of the Student Excellence Program from Snap-On and purchased a few "necessities". :lol:

Congrats, Henny!

Feel free to wander over to my hangar. Could use some help getting a pile of engine parts making noise again.

Jeff, I would love to fly over to your place and do some wrenching and some flying!

Good on you Henry. Now the learning begins.keep in mind, there are good wrench benders that can’t do paperwork, there are guys that do paperwork well but have trouble with the hands on. Your goal should be to excel at both the hands on and the paperwork side!

Yep, I've seen that situation up close and personal...

Get a Borescope and log cylinder trends graphically:

View attachment 52720

I bought this model and am pretty happy with it so far: https://www.oasisscientific.com/viv...g-borescope-videoscope-inspection-camera.html Like the way you added the info on the photo. Good stuff.

Recognize whats unairworthy and what can be fixed as time and money allow

Glenn

Glenn, that is some short and sweet advice. I appreciate it.

Draw your line in the sand now.

Only work for people who want quality.
Only work for people who will pay you what you are worth.


Say no.

Say no. Say no.

My example on this:

Did your previous mechanic complete this service bulletin? Oh yes.

Look at plane (wrapped in vinyl) - screws were covered in vinyl on the area required to be removed for the SB.

And the list continued.

My take on it.....there is an epidemic brewing of poorly maintained airplanes. Owners don't know what is right or they do not want to pay to have work done correctly. Mechanics are sloppy or they just do not know.

Tim

Thanks Tim. Hoping to do my best and produce nothing but quality work.
 
Also realize that you can fire customers just like they can fire you. Some customers are just not worth the money due to risk or their personality...I have watched owners bitch and moan when the drive their new Dually chevy and NEW 5th wheel and then tell me they are too broke to fix their airplane and can I just sign it off. UHM no I wont risk my certificate so you can go on vacation for weeks at a time.
 
realize that you can fire customers

This is SO true. I once had a customer come in several times a day to "Check" on his engine installation. After two days of this I started putting a mark on my toolbox stainless top with a sharpie each time he came in. Within the week that it took I had about 65 marks on my box. I was training Miguel at the time and I explained to him that those marks represented the number of time we are potentially making mistakes. The customer never realized I was putting a mark on my toolbox literally right in front of him. One time, I even interupted him, took out my sharpie and put another mark on the box ant then said to him, " okay, go ahead...." After delivering his airplane he wa so happy with the work that he asked us to do more but I refused.... that I was too busy... or that I could not do it in his timeframe or budget. He asked a few people and finally somone told him he was a PITA and he came in to appologize. I accepted his appology but did not ever do any more work for him. Nice person, just not a good customer. Learn to recognize the difference.
 
I don’t know Grant, hope there’s more to the story that made him a PITA. Maybe if you told him right off the bat that his frequent visits were a distraction the relationship could have been saved? Maybe do what Mike Scup does and lock the door!
 
I have a rule if a customer starts to argue about a price I give them I say well I really can’t get to this for a few months , I’ll give it a better look then and we can figure it out. This way no hard feelings And done.
For the follow you around guy , get your mirror out and start looking where he can’t see and every minute go “OOH, OOPS, HUMMMM” under your breath followed with some minor head shakes. All under your breath. Throw in a few wow this is an expensive repair to do. No looks ok after all. Had to stop once to tell a guy “your fogging the mirror please back up”.
 
I had one owner put their head on my shoulder to watch everything I was doing...and would then want to argue about what I found. If you don't like my inspection, go get your own A&P, wait the 3 years, work on airplanes full time and then get your IA and sign off your own crap...
 
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