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TCM C90 Starter and Alternator Upgrades

sdischer

ATP, CFII, A&P
MEMBER
COLLEGE STATION, TX
I am unable to find a service manual for the Delco Remy pull-starter and unable to find parts, and so I am likely not even going to use the right nomenclature here so apologize in advance...

However, my starter is leaking oil around what I would call the plunger which is the spur gear shaft the pull lever pushes inward to crank the engine. I understand from reading that is a leather seal which is hard or impossible to find. Suggestions for replacement are National Seal 6324-S or Chicago Rawhide (SKF) CR9859 but the case may require some machining to make those fit. I havent opened it up yet to see if it has been machined.

Question 1: Am I better off converting to a modern starter than trying to repair? If I convert should I get B&C, Sky-Tec or something else? Which is easier to install? The B&C seems to require cutting off a shaft, pulling a needle bearing, etc. Sounds like a royal pain and maybe the Sky-Tec is the same way but just doesn't say on Spruce.

Question 2: If I just go ahead and dump my generator at the same time, what is the best alternator for a certified aircraft? Swing the engine once, swap out the antiques and be done.
 
I'll let the engine guys address the starter questions.

As for the alternator conversion, what kind of electrical load do you plan on having? Lights, battery, avionics? If you actually NEED a higher output, look at the Plane-Power ER14-50. If you have a minimal load look at the B&C 200G. And yes I know the B&C isn't 'certified'. But show me in CAR3 where that's required for a charging system.

Web
 
Your C90 will need the pilot shaft be cut off for the B&C and the SkyTec. B&C should have the instructions on their website. Some clay will keep the debris out of your engine. They work great and no more pull cable clutch adjustment and propensity for starter motor turning before the gears are meshed and chipping the teeth and contaminating the engine. The little B&C alternator is the cat's ass on a 90 hp Super Cub, light and simple. Shouldn't be hard to field approve. Starter will turn faster, alternator will charge at low rpm and you will loose weight on both. Win win except your wallet.
 
I'll let the engine guys address the starter questions.

As for the alternator conversion, what kind of electrical load do you plan on having? Lights, battery, avionics? If you actually NEED a higher output, look at the Plane-Power ER14-50. If you have a minimal load look at the B&C 200G. And yes I know the B&C isn't 'certified'. But show me in CAR3 where that's required for a charging system.

Web
LED position lights, comm radio, transponder, iPad and a battery.
 
I did this work on my PA18-95 while the engine was off for overhaul. B&C BC320 starter, and B&C BC433-H alternator. The alternator installation kit is available from Classic Aero as STC SA02283AK. It's a very complete kit, but the regulator/over voltage module requires some assembly. Works great with 150 hours on it since May. PA18 isn't explicitly called out in the STC's AML, so talk it over with your IA. The Plane Power ER14-50 might be less hassle, but I'm happy with what I've got.

I'll send you my old pull cable starter for the cost of shipping if you want to keep messing with it. Worked as expected when removed.
 
And just because I've got it handy, here's what the current draw looks like on a pretty typical flight for me. Lots of battery powered electronics plugged into mine that are recharging at the beginning. The flat spot in the middle is when I turned off the LED strobes & flashing LED landing/taxi lights.



Screen Shot 2020-11-24 at 10.06.01 AM.png
 

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We have two B&C, one Skytec.
Happy with the B&C. I think the Skytec originally would shear a pin every time the engine kicked back, but a round trip to the factory seems to have cured that. We now have thousands of successul starts.
The B&Cs are driven by Odyssey 545s, a smaller battery. We get 70 (!) starts between battery charges!
 
For those of you with the B&C Alternator, it looks like you have to send your drive gear/coupling in and they modify it and install on the B&C alternator. Does that sound about right? If so how long did that process take?
 
Classic Aero will ship the alternator with serviceable parts already installed. Ship them your serviceable parts when you get around to it and they'll refund the charge. B&C might do something similar if you purchase direct from them.
 
Classic Aero will ship the alternator with serviceable parts already installed. Ship them your serviceable parts when you get around to it and they'll refund the charge. B&C might do something similar if you purchase direct from them.

I like that idea for sure> I will call them Monday. Thanks.
 
The 12 amp 200G will work well for you. From the list you showed in there's no way you'd need a 30 amp alternator. And the 200G will save you about a pound over the bigger one.

Web
 
The 12 amp 200G will work well for you. From the list you showed in there's no way you'd need a 30 amp alternator. And the 200G will save you about a pound over the bigger one.

Web
wow, thanks that is good news! I can now eat more turkey lol!
 
I am unable to find a service manual for the Delco Remy pull-starter and unable to find parts, and so I am likely not even going to use the right nomenclature here so apologize in advance...

However, my starter is leaking oil around what I would call the plunger which is the spur gear shaft the pull lever pushes inward to crank the engine. I understand from reading that is a leather seal which is hard or impossible to find. Suggestions for replacement are National Seal 6324-S or Chicago Rawhide (SKF) CR9859 but the case may require some machining to make those fit. I havent opened it up yet to see if it has been machined.

Question 1: Am I better off converting to a modern starter than trying to repair? If I convert should I get B&C, Sky-Tec or something else? Which is easier to install? The B&C seems to require cutting off a shaft, pulling a needle bearing, etc. Sounds like a royal pain and maybe the Sky-Tec is the same way but just doesn't say on Spruce.

Question 2: If I just go ahead and dump my generator at the same time, what is the best alternator for a certified aircraft? Swing the engine once, swap out the antiques and be done.

I just purchased an overhaul kit for the delco starter from Fresno Airparts. New bushings, brushes and seals for the oil leaks, 45 bucks. Saving the starter upgrade for overhaul time in a few more years.

Also in the process of converting to plane power alternator on my C90 powered Supercub. QAA was the most affordable. Don’t forget the new bushings for the gear.

Check the tach seal. Mine leaks. Also getting replaced.

Good luck.
 
I have the B&C Starter and a B&C Alternator with the STC from Classic Aero in hand. The regulator/filter/crowbar circuit comes as a kit and the assembly takes a few hours to do properly but that prep work is done now. I will install the Alternator light, alternator switch and starter switch in preparation tomorrow, and then this week hopefully swing the engine and install the starter, alternator and new ignition harness while I have the engine swung. I will have my IA standing by drinking coffee while I do the hard work, but that's fine, I know the little antique planes better than he does. I am not looking forward to cutting off the starter pivot shaft but will make a sheet metal dam and seal it up with clay as suggested so I assume it will be ok. Any suggestions are appreciated.
 
I know a guy who replaced a pull-starter with a button start--
he said that B&C (or was it skytec?) has a sort of plastic insert that goes in there to catch any shavings.
You might check with them.
 
I know a guy who replaced a pull-starter with a button start--
he said that B&C (or was it skytec?) has a sort of plastic insert that goes in there to catch any shavings.
You might check with them.
Unfortunately it’s Skytec that provides the tray and I bought B&C! My luck...
 
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