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Alternatives to Kydex- Royalite R52 and Boltaron 4330?

KJC

KJC

FRIEND
Clear Lake, MN
My supplier has discontinued stocking Kydex. I’m looking for an alternative acrylic thermoplastic that has similar properties and workability. The two that seem most similar are Royalite R52 and Boltaron 4330. I have a sample of Royalite R52 in .060 and it’s much stiffer than Kydex .060. I liked it. Comes in several colors including gray and black. Drawback was it denser and heavier. .040 would be perfect and it’s in stock but they refuse to sell it in less than 20 sheets.

I’m trying to find out more about Boltaron 4330 other than on the internet search.

They both look very similar (possibly better?) than Kydex. Does anyone have any experience with these?
 
KJC said:
My supplier has discontinued stocking Kydex. I’m looking for an alternative acrylic thermoplastic that has similar properties and workability. The two that seem most similar are Royalite R52 and Boltaron 4330. I have a sample of Royalite R52 in .060 and it’s much stiffer than Kydex .060. I liked it. Comes in several colors including gray and black. Drawback was it denser and heavier. .040 would be perfect and it’s in stock but they refuse to sell it in less than 20 sheets.

I’m trying to find out more about Boltaron 4330 other than on the internet search.

They both look very similar (possibly better?) than Kydex. Does anyone have any experience with these?
Click to expand...

What are you working on? I need to order some KyDex for a project also. I have another V-0 material that I worked with recently (have to find the name).

Tim
 
1966 fresh from the jig at Javeron for repair and mods. Here’s what it’s getting:

x brace
reverse dogleg
large Atlee ext baggage
3rd seat/#180 cargo
belts to floor
float fittings
aft metal belly pan
L-21 glass
Airmotive large baggage door and upper baggage door
folding front seat
headerless fuel system
lots of tabs including interior, water rudder pulleys and Airglass pod
lift handles both sides
boxed tail
interior elt bracket
Carbon Concepts floorboards, toolbox and rear seat
etc.,etc,etc.

7C9429EB-180A-45DD-AE84-82C2589D0E2F.jpeg
 

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Kydex (some versions) is approved. Is that other stuff able to pass the tests?

Last I ordered out Washington Liard plastics. Was only $40 to ship 3 sheets rolled up to Alaska.

And it cost only 1/3 of local $$$


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Like Kydex T, both the Royalite and Boltaron both meet the FAR25(?) burn tests per their advertising and specs. Do you need that on a CAR 3 airplane? Obviously still nice to have. I’m leaning towards Boltaron in either gray or carbon fiber pattern in .040.

Mike, just a side note, I finished my last airplane a PA-12 shortly after you finished the -12 you where working on. Thank you for posting the pics of that project. It really helped a lot. I also discovered how much fun and easy Kydex is.

https://www.boltaron.com/thermoforming/aircraftrated/
 
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KJC said:
Like Kydex T, both the Royalite and Boltaron both meet the FAR25(?) burn tests per their advertising and specs. Do you need that on a CAR 3 airplane?
Click to expand...

I need that because I don't want to burn and I want to keep breathing.

Web
 
Agreed. Just thinking of the lawyer aspect with respect to CAR 3 airplanes.
 
KJC said:
1966 fresh from the jig at Javeron for repair and mods. Here’s what it’s getting:

x brace
reverse dogleg
large Atlee ext baggage
3rd seat/#180 cargo
belts to floor
float fittings
aft metal belly pan
L-21 glass
Airmotive large baggage door and upper baggage door
folding front seat
headerless fuel system
lots of tabs including interior, water rudder pulleys and Airglass pod
lift handles both sides
boxed tail
interior elt bracket
Carbon Concepts floorboards, toolbox and rear seat
etc.,etc,etc.

View attachment 52399
Click to expand...

looks Uber heavy
 
So are 35” Bushwheels and a Borer Prop. Doesn’t stop anybody. Most of the mods here are pretty standard. Lose the header tanks and wood floorboards and I bet I’m still ahead. Supposedly the Carbon Concept floorboards save #9 lbs alone over wood.
 
KJC said:
So are 35” Bushwheels and a Borer Prop. Doesn’t stop anybody. Most of the mods here are pretty standard. Lose the header tanks and wood floorboards and I bet I’m still ahead. Supposedly the Carbon Concept floorboards save #9 lbs alone over wood.
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What did the fuselage end up weighing?
 
KJC said:
Agreed. Just thinking of the lawyer aspect with respect to CAR 3 airplanes.
Click to expand...

If you have enough flame and heat to cause problems with standard Kydex you had better be out of the plane. What the FAA requires for material certs in a Boeing doesn't make much sense for a Cub.

From CAR3
§ 3.388 Fire precautions—(a) Cabin interiors. Only materials which are flash- resistant shall be used. In compartments where smoking is to be permitted, the materials of the cabin lining, floors, upholstery, and furnishings shall be flame-resistant. Such compartments shall be equipped with an adequate number of self- contained ash trays. All other compartments shall be placarded against smoking.
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stewartb said:
If you have enough flame and heat to cause problems with standard Kydex you had better be out of the plane. What the FAA requires for material certs in a Boeing doesn't make much sense for a Cub.

From CAR3
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That's a bit out of date, I'm sure the FAA has the non-smoking version just about to publish :roll:
 
It is nice to know that all of these acrylics have some fire resistant features. If it meets some FAR requirement then it should be better than nothing. I think we are to the point that all three of these have been used in commercial airliners and light aircraft for years without reservation. Obviously if it’s on fire, you should be leaving ASAP.

Regarding fuselage weight, I have no idea.
 
My 180 tonight, and why burn certificates don't matter much to me.

Propane and fuel hauling season is coming!
 

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Yep. Me too. Propane cylinders and gas for generators. Not much is going to save a guy from a bad crash with all the stuff for making a cabin/fish house work. Still risks I’m willing to take to live a life well lived. ��.

Just curious, what did you use for interior panels in the Wildcat. Carbon Fiber?
 
Yes, they were provided with the kit. I'm not sure I like it better than Kydex but they fit so we used them. I'd much rather work with Kydex. CF cuttings and dust make my skin crawl.
 
My panels? There's no question, they're carbon fiber. And the floor boards are also carbon but with a foam core. If I was putting a project together? I'd find an easier to work with alternative like those you're looking at.
 

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stewartb said:
My panels? There's no question, they're carbon fiber. And the floor boards are also carbon but with a foam core. If I was putting a project together? I'd find an easier to work with alternative like those you're looking at.
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But the carbon fiber was right at half the weight of kydex I forget the thickness.040 or .062”. I had that written down. I think there’s a picture of that note in the kydex thread


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
Did those floors come from Carbon Concepts or were the supplied with the kit? Also, I’m wondering what the weight saving between painted/pc aluminum vs Kydex vs carbon is. I’ll bet the aluminum .020 with all that black spay on crap on the back and Kydex are close to the same. Carbon is obviously lighter but is it worth it to save 2 maybe 3 lbs?

The supplier in MSP just quoted $78 a sheet for .047 Boltaron in black.
 
KJC said:
Did those floors come from Carbon Concepts or were the supplied with the kit? Also, I’m wondering what the weight saving between painted/pc aluminum vs Kydex vs carbon is. I’ll bet the aluminum .020 with all that black spay on crap on the back and Kydex are close to the same. Carbon is obviously lighter but is it worth it to save 2 maybe 3 lbs?

The supplier in MSP just quoted $78 a sheet for .047 Boltaron in black.
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I just had a customer pay $3,900 to save 10 lbs on his cub, so for some every oz counts...
 
KJC said:
Did those floors come from Carbon Concepts or were the supplied with the kit? Also, I’m wondering what the weight saving between painted/pc aluminum vs Kydex vs carbon is. I’ll bet the aluminum .020 with all that black spay on crap on the back and Kydex are close to the same. Carbon is obviously lighter but is it worth it to save 2 maybe 3 lbs?

The supplier in MSP just quoted $78 a sheet for .047 Boltaron in black.
Click to expand...

040 Kydex and 020 aluminum weigh the same (less paint). Carbon is definitely lighter but is harder to work with. My floors came from Backcountry. They are not from Carbon Concepts. Randy's shop is about 5 minutes from my house. He made me a new nose bowl last winter. His quality is definitely better than in the early years and he seems to have a good thing going. I saw a Cub interior panel set last time I was there. I have no knowledge of how well it fits.

My side panels have a 90* turnout at the bottom to overlap the floorboards. I like that detail. I'd think you could do it with Kydex-type materials. Something to consider. I think it'd be better if the floors had the 90* turn but that would be very difficult to fit.
 
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0BADB144-4321-4596-B16E-EF63318A1FAE.jpegKind of like this? Next time I’m going to put the 90 turn under the floorboard or butted up to the edge of the floor.
 

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I ordered my Kydex from Professional Plastics in Portland, OR. They shipped it to my house for a very reasonable fee. Some came out of Denver and some Seattle.
 
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