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Thread: Ran across this cubcrafters review on another site.....

  1. #1

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    Ran across this cubcrafters review on another site.....

    https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/comm...-guide.128146/

    I was wondering if anyone else shares this same kind of opinion, or knows if any of the problems this pilot brought up has been addressed in later model airplanes? The leaking water sounds bad but I don't know the details. Everything else I've ever read about cubcrafters airplanes has been mostly positive, with the caveat that they are expensive and might sacrifice a bit of durability for weight (and the problems with some of the undersized carbs). I know there are CC people on here; not trying to offend.

    Rounding out last place...

    #4 Cubcrafters planes.

    These planes can do one thing well and one thing only and that is land short. They are very, very good at this, perhaps the best at this on the list. Everything else about them is horrific. The control harmony is perhaps the worst of any plane I have ever flown. Above 80mph the ailerons are essentially completely locked up, it takes herculean effort in order manipulate your roll axis. The back seat is a sling seat which is convenient for storage but atrocious to sit in. It sways and rocks in turbulence which will make even the most seasoned of pilot nauseous. It's certainly one of the louder planes I've ever flown in, the plane is so poorly engineered that the fairing between the boot cowl and windshield is SO massive because they couldnt get them to even come close to meeting. I took the plane camping, and it leaked... BAD. There was water all over the seats and carpet. The control stick was uncomfortable and is only equipped with perhaps the worlds touchiest electric trim system. They made the cockpit 4" wider than supercubs which sounds great in theory, except now your sightline to the ground is that much further away and it reduced your visibility as a result, it feels far more like you're sitting lower and far away from the windows, when it's just been widened.

    They have an excellent marketing team, but horrible planes.
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    Thought I should register here before I get flamed...

    My opinions only .
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    PerryB's Avatar
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    Wow, I've flown a lot of Cubs but none of them required a "Herculean" effort to overcome locked up ailerons. Better hit the gym a little harder. As for control harmony, Cubs generate a lot of adverse yaw, thats what the rudder is for. If the plane in question is a Carbon Cub, yes they went a little flimsy on some items where they shouldn't have. I've heard complaints of water leaks and of the plexiglass windows drumming excessively because they are very thin. Also breaking tail wires and some earlier ones had torque tube cracking issues.
    Last edited by PerryB; 10-31-2020 at 09:13 PM.
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    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Welcome Mtn!
    Before you get flamed is probably accurate. We should thank you though as cabin fever is at an alltime high. You came along just in time! Relax and enjoy the show.
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory
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    The author might appreciate that Carbon Cub a little more once he had to hand prop some of our -18s
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    Sounds more like some of the political attack ads going around nowadays than “just my opinion”...
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    Farmboy's Avatar
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    That is a very opinionated op-ed piece written using very strong adjectives. To say a husky has a lighter feel than an FX-3... well, that just killed any credibility.
    Pb


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    who wrote the article?
    Last edited by tempdoug; 11-01-2020 at 07:32 AM.

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    That kind of attack is not even worthy of response. I’ve never seen better engineering on a kit, which by the way has 1/2 the number of parts of a standard cub because they are cnc machined as single units instead of a multitude of parts compiled to make one like Piper did.

    Was the cub a certified, factory build unit or one from a “builder”...experimental? I can put together a great bicycle out of the box but without knowledge or experience and “doing it right”, it might fall apart the first mile? Just saying......
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamonddave View Post
    That kind of attack is not even worthy of response. I’ve never seen better engineering on a kit, which by the way has 1/2 the number of parts of a standard cub because they are cnc machined as single units instead of a multitude of parts compiled to make one like Piper did.

    Was the cub a certified, factory build unit or one from a “builder”...experimental? I can put together a great bicycle out of the box but without knowledge or experience and “doing it right”, it might fall apart the first mile? Just saying......
    The author was involved in cubcrafters production/engineering, according to some google results anyone can find using the screen name. From some online videos I think he flew the CC11-100 "Sport Cub S2" quite a bit.
    Last edited by Narwhal; 11-01-2020 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal747 View Post
    The author was involved in cubcrafters production/engineering, according to some google results anyone can find using the screen name. From some online videos I think he flew the CC11-100 "Sport Cub S2" quite a bit.
    OK. We’ll I didn’t design them but did build 5 of them and I can tell you, I’ve never seen ANYTHING similar to what this person wrote. In fact, quite the opposite.

    Just like most reviews I read, I always toss out the flagrant biased ones that are extremely bad (or good) and go with the median. Believe it or not, there are people with agendas out there. (Including this election).
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  14. #14
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Ran across this cubcrafters review on another site.....

    They do leak, but what airplane wouldn’t if you put vents in the skylights. The vents work good in the air but not so much in the rain. The back seat does suck with any turbulence but I have seen they are coming out with a solid back seat.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    That is a very opinionated op-ed piece written using very strong adjectives. To say a husky has a lighter feel than an FX-3... well, that just killed any credibility.
    Pb
    I didn't say that. I said that Carbon Cubs ailerons aerodynamically lock-up above a certain speed. Huskies do not. This was fixed to some degree with the FX3/ X-cub, but that tendency is still there. Before aerodynamic lock occurs, these series of planes are absolutely lighter. But the Husky (TO ME) feels more stable at all speed ranges... which as a Cezzzzzna driver is a plus (TO ME).

    It was a forum post... geared towards PoA which does not have many cub drivers on it... not an Op-ed.

    Cleared into the track... Flame on.
    Last edited by Mtns2skies; 11-01-2020 at 10:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
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    You know why they put Coors in a can right?






    They couldn't get it back in the horse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtns2skies View Post
    I didn't say that. I said that Carbon Cubs ailerons aerodynamically lock-up above a certain speed. Huskies do not. This was fixed to some degree with the FX3/ X-cub, but that tendency is still there. Before aerodynamic lock occurs, these series of planes are absolutely lighter. But the Husky (TO ME) feels more stable at all speed ranges... which as a Cezzzzzna driver is a plus (TO ME).

    It was a forum post... geared towards PoA which does not have many cub drivers on it... not an Op-ed.

    Cleared into the track... Flame on.
    Let us know your opinion of Husky ailerons after you leave some meat on all the hardware hanging under the wings of one.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  18. #18
    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    His mission is different from mine as I read his opinion. I was just saying to a friend the other day after I was seeing ground speeds in my Exp. Cub of over 150 mph how nice it would be to cruise at that all the time.

    Here is the rub for me a Cessna 180/185 is not as cheap to own, I probably could go to a few of the places I went to in Alaska with one but for the most part it would not have worked for most of my trip. The Husky equipped like I would need it might be a little faster than a cub but by the time you put real suspension and 35" Bushwheels on it's not that much faster and most likely you are going to have and airplane that weighs 1400 pounds empty. It's nice to have choices.
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    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Just like backcountry boats, there is no perfect plane, they all have trade offs. Choose your preferences and compromise where you are willing with the choice you make.
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    I couldn’t agree more...that’s why, I built, fly and own one...#PlasticCub


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    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Short of advertising in a slanderous way, why would someone write a piece like that, and then post it in essentially an airline pilot forum? (No offense, I've been on POA).
    And once people read it as gospel since it's the written word....And with a title like Management Council Member..

    Hey I've got a great idea about advertising the new Ducati MotoGP bike. Let's go over to the Chevy Truck forum and post how horrible the BMW, Honda, and Yamaha bikes are.....I mean we all know the BMW shakes, the Honda has no power, and the Yamaha has never won any MotoGP race...

  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Cub Crafters makes a lot of different models. Should specify which model you are critiquing. Good and bad in all. Everything in aviation is a compromise. Flown them all and have my own opinions.

    Before I take a lot of time sharing my opinion it would be nice to know something about who is asking besides the clue that you fly a 747.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Cub Crafters makes a lot of different models. Should specify which model you are critiquing. Good and bad in all. Everything in aviation is a compromise. Flown them all and have my own opinions.

    Before I take a lot of time sharing my opinion it would be nice to know something about who is asking besides the clue that you fly a 747.
    I think Mtns2skies flew the CC11-100, and he was involved to some level in production at CC, so I can't say what he flew beyond the SC2, maybe he will tell us.

    I'm just a guy that has a clapped out 182B but is working hard to save money for something better in 1-2 years. Hangar at Merrill. I read POA sometimes but I read here more. I reckon i can budget a quarter to 1/3 million for something close to my dream aircraft when the time comes so I'm just researching the purchase. Carbon Cub FX3, maule, scout, husky, even a 180 or regular PA18 or R44 are on the table. Some other experimentals beside the FX3 sounds nice but I'm not interested in building. Really the FX3 is what I'm leaning towards on paper because it seems to check the right boxes but I can't know until I fly it, and even then you don't find out about things like leaks until you already have it. Most of my coworkers gravitate to the backcountry cub series SQ2/rev2/3 etc, only know of one with a CC, but again they have the resources to build the kits.

    I've not been real happy about the constant barrage of 60 year old airplane maintenance problems on the present bird, plus it is not the best for Alaska adventuring, despite having sportsman STOL, 850x6 all around, and a binder full of other STCs. Thoughts of corrosion enter my mind anytime I get into moderate turb. I have taken it a bit off airport, but only to mud flats and the usual spots on Kinik gravel and am starting to understand its limitations for that. I even crunched a main on some big rocks, but luckily rejected the landing and limped home uneventfully on a sheared bolt. Yes, airline type and I know that's bad on here but I came from GA a few decades ago. Haven't had the money until now. Trying to learn. I maintain my CFI and earned my Commercial Helicopter rating at Merrill this year on top of the usual airline certs.

    My plan is to fly everything in person at a dealer before making a decision and really get a lot of instruction in type before flying on my own. I flew a Maule M5-235 a few weeks ago, but the limited payload on Maules bothers me (considering size of the airplane and fuel burn) and I have to follow the rules. It was a lot of fun though. I'm not going to travel the country for airplane demos until covid hopefully goes away, so in the meantime I try to learn on the internet while I sit in international hotel jails at work for days at a time, trying to avoid 14 day quarantines. Thankful to still have a good job unlike so many friends.

    This is probably more than anyone ever wanted to know, but since you asked, you know how airline pilots are! We never miss an opportunity to talk about ourselves (and are cheap)! Thanks for the help. I'm not a real "airline pilot" to most people either, but close enough for discussion's sake I guess.

    To summarize, just the usual "more money than sense / skill" new airplane shopper!
    Last edited by Narwhal; 11-01-2020 at 09:06 PM.
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  24. #24
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Thanks for the bio, some of my best friends are airline guys. I do give them a lot of hell. So my opinions come from rebuilding 5 Super Cubs and maintaining about 20 more inculding Top Cubs. I maintain a Sport Cub, have maintained a couple of Carbon Cub SSs, and currently do a lot of work on EX/FX2, FX3 and now an X Cub. The NX Cubs have just hit the new owners and haven't seen any in the shop yet but have flown the demo. I have also maintained and flown every flavor of the Husky except the new trim system. Maintain several Maules but no time in them. Flown 2 Scouts briefly. I learned to fly in a PA16, then started flying a 90 hp Super Cub, owned two Pacers and bought my Super Cub 6 ears ago after flying lots of other people's Super Cubs over the years.

    I think the guy who posted the thread on the other sie needs to fly more examples. Later model Super Cubs have aluminum ailerons and flaps and none that I have flown have had the conrol harmony in roll and pitch of the fabric covered controls of the earlier airplanes. Every Super Cub is different, have flown some great ones and some real dogs.

    Cub Crafters started out with the Sport Cub, 100 hp, and flaps. Typical low hp Cub that des fine with one person and starts changing as you put another person and a stuff in it. Carbon Cub SS is quite the performer, power to weight is amazing. I hate the ailerons, stiff and heavy but the airplane performs well. If buying one make sure all the service bulletins have been done because if not they can run hot.FX2 is an amazing flying airplane. The new symetrical airfoil ailerons are lighter, faster and more effective than any Cub type I have ever flown. The FX2 is heavier than the SS but also has a higher gross weight and is built more robust.FX3 is fast, heavier but a nice flying airplane. IO-363 engine and the Tral Blazer prop make for some nice performance both take off and speed. Probably not as short in a contest only because of the additional weight. Flies like the FX2 but with the advantages of injection and CS prop and more power.X-Cub flies very nice, is fast but I wouldn't want to operat the spring gear in really rough stuff off airport like I do my Super Cub. It has lots of creature comforts.

    I flew an A1A Husky quite a bit and liked it to go places. I felt like it was more of a numbers airplane to be consistant compared to the seat of the pants of the Super Cub where I feel like I wear it. The A1B and C were nicer on the ailerons but still don't have the feel I like in the Super Cub. I know, I am bias.

    To me all these airplanes are worth having but the right one depends on your mission. 90% of my flying is banging around on gravel bars finding challenging places to land and explore. Several times a year I put my pod on and head somewhere for a week camping and exploring places like Idaho, Utah and recently Arkansas. Some people complain about the speed of the Super Cub but being self employeed when I leave my shop I am in no hurry and it is an adventure. I love flyng low and seeing things from a birdseye view.

    From a maintence stand point it al depends. A nicely restored Super Cub or a spares and surplus Cub Crafters PA18 can be a great, very reliable airplane. My biggest issue is Super Cubs rebuilt by people who do not know and do not research what they are doing. A sum of parts and mods makes not a good Super Cub. The Huskys I have maintained were good straight forward airplanes with no surprises and pretty easy to keep in the air despite a few parts issues with Aviat. Cub Crafters Cabon Cubs started with a clean sheet of paper. There have been growing pains and some issues. A review of their service documents will shed light on them. The overhead vents work great to supply cool air in a hot Texas summer but they do leak in a rainstorm, Pull the sling out and a garbage bag over the front seat. My wife hates the rear sling seat. Tac Aero has a solid seat that is pretty nice. To me evrything in aviation is a compromise. Huskys are heavy but strong and well built, like a truck. Super Cubs have lasted 70 plus years and still going strong, we know the weak points and address them. Carbon Cubs are built lighter and that performance gained from the horsepower vs weight is a kick in the ass and the reason they are so popular. I have had blow back from my comments about Carbon Cubs but I believe it is true, I don't believe they will last like a Super Cub but that is the compromise. They perform better than anything else I have flown but not in my budget but luckily I get to fly them a lot because of the work I do on them. For me, my budget and my mission the Super Cub has fit the bill. It is pretty rough around the edges but does what I want to do in an airplane at this point in time. My opinion from my experiences.
    Steve Pierce

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    Wow, great information, thank you so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    90% of my flying is banging around on gravel bars finding challenging places to land and explore. .
    That is pretty much it for me too. I have no real need to go anywhere outside Los Anchorage in a small airplane, it is all for fun. Sometimes I'm even happy just flying around the mountains and not landing, enjoying the view. But I'm always looking for a spot to walk around. My wife is the only family and she only rides 1 out of every 10 flights anyway. The FX3 seems so nice because it seems like it would be pretty good at all that, plus good for the 10% of the time when I did want to get somewhere in reasonable time, and even IFR capable with a G5 backup and pitot heat.

  26. #26
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    My wife goes every now and again. Can't push an airplane out without this one though.
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    Steve Pierce

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    txpacer's Avatar
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    I think one of the big advantages of the Piper Super Cub is parts availability. You can get PA-18 parts lots of places. With a CC or Aviat plane, you pretty much belong to that company.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal747 View Post
    Yes, airline type and I know that's bad on here but I came from GA a few decades ago. Haven't had the money until now. Trying to learn. I maintain my CFI and earned my Commercial Helicopter rating at Merrill this year on top of the usual airline certs.
    You're new here. There are many more current and retired "airline types" here than you have imagined. They just don't wear their stripes on their sleeves.
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    You're new here. There are many more current and retired "airline types" here than you have imagined. They just don't wear their stripes on their sleeves.
    Yeah, I'm sure there are a lot of us, I just realize we don't have the best reputation when it comes to small airplane/backcountry stuff. I don't normally advertise it, I probably should've picked a different username.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    You're new here. There are many more current and retired "airline types" here than you have imagined. They just don't wear their stripes on their sleeves.
    Ya, but we know who you— I mean “they” are.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    You're new here. There are many more current and retired "airline types" here than you have imagined. They just don't wear their stripes on their sleeves.

    I only wear my stripes when I need money.......even then I’m pretty good at hiding. Once that shutdown check is done I'm gone!LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhal747 View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure there are a lot of us, I just realize we don't have the best reputation when it comes to small airplane/backcountry stuff. I don't normally advertise it, I probably should've picked a different username.
    It is what it is. We all bring something to the table. I bet you know more about cross country navigation and IFR flying than some.

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    Here’s a Carbon Cub story, as told to me by the owner. He bought an SS from the factory. Loved it. Then his mechanic found corrosion in the frame. Lots of back and forth, during which time CC said it was the fault of the owner who, they alleged, got in the airplane with salty boots. Mechanics here said they believed water got into the frame through the screw holes that hold the floorboards. CC drills holes through the tubes where most others use welded tabs. After a lot of talking, CubCrafters did help him make it right. I don’t know if there was money involved or, if so, which way it went, but he has an airplane he’s satisfied with.

    For Steve P and other experienced mechanics: are holes a source of problems, as compared to tabs?
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  34. #34
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StuBob View Post

    For Steve P and other experienced mechanics: are holes a source of problems, as compared to tabs?
    I see where they can be. There are a few holes holding the back floorboard in that usually do not come out. The ones that concern me are the ones on the bottom of the fuselage that hold the V shaped access panel on under the cockpit. The tube has basically a nut friction spun into the bottom tubes to hold the panel on. I have been squirting LPS3 into the holes every time I remove one. It is the V tubes between the longerons, under the cockpit.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I see where they can be. There are a few holes holding the back floorboard in that usually do not come out. The ones that concern me are the ones on the bottom of the fuselage that hold the V shaped access panel on under the cockpit. The tube has basically a nut friction spun into the bottom tubes to hold the panel on. I have been squirting LPS3 into the holes every time I remove one. It is the V tubes between the longerons, under the cockpit.
    And the 12v plug is drilled through a tube under the panel too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by StuBob View Post
    CC said it was the fault of the owner who, they alleged, got in the airplane with salty boots
    Wow
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  37. #37
    irishfield's Avatar
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    Always love disgruntled employee threads...
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  38. #38
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    On my second CC. First one took my Wife and I from Alaska to Colorado, Yukon, Idaho, Utah etc. Landing in places that most will never see. We haven’t had to walk out yet. They build the best Cub.


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  39. #39
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott c View Post
    On my second CC. First one took my Wife and I from Alaska to Colorado, Yukon, Idaho, Utah etc. Landing in places that most will never see. We haven’t had to walk out yet. They build the best Cub.


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    What models have you had and own now?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  40. #40

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    AK
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott c View Post
    On my second CC. First one took my Wife and I from Alaska to Colorado, Yukon, Idaho, Utah etc. Landing in places that most will never see. We haven’t had to walk out yet. They build the best Cub.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Well that settles it- can’t argue with that logic. Glad this issue has finally been put to rest...
    Likes Narwhal, motosix liked this post

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