Brake options

I’m looking for opinions/reviews of various brake options for my Experimental PA18 build. I have 1.5” axles, 6” wheels, 31” Bushwheels and TOE BRAKES. Yeah, flame away about toe brakes.....but that’s what I’m doing.

I have a set of Cleveland wheels with new heavy duty brake disks on the shelf now. Grove says their calipers won’t work with Cleveland wheels and disks but I could use their master cylinders or buy everything and sell my wheels. Matco hasn’t replied as to the compatibility with Cleveland wheels. Beringer sent me a quote that made my eyes bug out. I like their stuff and it’s light but I don’t know if I want to dump that much money into brakes.

Those of you that will admit to having toe brakes.......what did you use and are you happy with it? Easy to service?

Opinions on mixing components, i.e. buying Cleveland calipers to fit my current wheels and using Grove or Matco master cylinders? yes, no, asking for trouble?

Thanks,

Mr. Ed

Robbie Grove would be able to give sound advice. He's partial to toe brakes too.8)

The calipers don't care what master provides the pressure/volume required they just need the pressure to work. So first question is what is the recommended line pressure/volume for the Caliper? Second question is will whatever master you choose meet the requirements? Third question is and problem with quality/serviceability/parts availablity. Forth question is are you doing skis? Most of the older hydraulic where built for 1 1/4 brakes the wider 1 1/2 Cleveland brakes can have some clearance issues, I believe the Grove 11/2 Calipers don't have that problem (no nipples on the back) but something to consider. I have seen all sorts of cobbled together wheel/brakes in the past, they always seem to cost more in labor and parts to make them work.
DENNY

I'm a never mix and match..... just a blackhole for time(which is money in my world).....

I have ABW 10" wheels and rotors with Grove double puck calipers. I started with Grove torque plates but with my gear change switched to Cleveland torque plates keeping the same Grove calipers. Works great. I have 6" Grove wheels and rotors in reserve and expect they'll swap without a hitch.

Back Country Bruce told me the reason he uses Grove wheels and brakes is they're compatible with ABW wheels, where Matco brakes are not. I haven't tested that but I know Groves work.

PS, I love my toe brakes, especially now that I revised them and added Grove masters.

Bearhawk uses Gerdes or Matco masters with toe brakes and any brake set up you want. All works well together. ABI brakes are nice.

I'd recommend to use the Matco Master Cylinders with the Cleveland Brakes. I've installed them in a number of planes as both toe and heel brakes with 5 and 6" wheels of various brands (Cleveland, Matco, and some others I have forgotten), single and double puck brakes and lots of different tire sizes. They have worked well in every combination.

-Cub Builder

stewartb said:

I have ABW 10" wheels and rotors with Grove double puck calipers. I started with Grove torque plates but with my gear change switched to Cleveland torque plates keeping the same Grove calipers. Works great. I have 6" Grove wheels and rotors in reserve and expect they'll swap without a hitch.

Back Country Bruce told me the reason he uses Grove wheels and brakes is they're compatible with ABW wheels, where Matco brakes are not. I haven't tested that but I know Groves work.

PS, I love my toe brakes, especially now that I revised them and added Grove masters.

Click to expand...

From taking measurements and trying to fit ABI wheels with Grove brakes I would say that some, but definitely not all Grove brakes fit with ABI wheels and the ABI wheels need to be configured for it.

There's a thick and a thin brake rotor in the ABI/Cleveland model lineup. Thin is 1/4" and the thick is 3/8". Thin discs are normally used on either single puck 1-1/2" axle setups or double puck 1-1/4" kits. The thick is used on double puck 1-1/2" setups for Cessna aircraft or cubs that have been converted to 1-1/2" axles.

On the Matco (at least the models I've seen on cubs) they also have a thin and a thick but their caliper opening dimensions are conveniently just slightly thinner by about 1/16" so that you can't fit the Cleveland/ABI thin disc in their standard 1-1/4" brakes and same with the 1-1/2" brakes. What you can do is fit a thin Cleveland/ABI brake disc into their "heavy duty" 1-1/2" caliper and just let the piston on the brake somewhat overextend to take up the extra space. It works and there aren't really any problems but I would be concerned with overextension and possible leaks of the brake pistons if/when the pads wear considerably and the pistons are at their maximum travel.

Another thing I've seen done is fabricating shims to go between the caliper body and brake pads to open the Groves up that extra .063" to accept the thicker discs. Far from ideal solution but it's experimental so anything goes.

This is just observations from both kits on Cubcrafters planes and I'm not intimately familiar with the Matco lineup so they may have some new brake that's 100% cleveland compatible that I'm not aware of so take it with a grain of salt.

That it's important for a guy to buy the right parts for an application shouldn't come as a surprise. I'll try to dig up the Grove part numbers that I have if anyone is interested. Backcountry coordinated the parts knowing I was using ABW wheels. All I had to do was bolt them on. That the Cleveland torque plates were interchangeable was a happy coincidence since I had some sitting around and they were easier to bolt on. I could have used the Cleveland calipers but the Groves have a more robust casting, and that info is posted on Olibuilt's brake failure thread.

https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?58148-Failure-Brake-setup-problem&p=782555&viewfull=1

Mr. Ed said:

.....I have a set of Cleveland wheels with new heavy duty brake disks on the shelf now. Grove says their calipers won’t work with Cleveland wheels and disks but I could use their master cylinders or buy everything and sell my wheels....

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Curious which p/n wheels those are?

Cleveland wheel # 40-97D