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Another notch?

The Kid

FOUNDER
Thompson Falls
I have been out of flying for two years as my cub was being rebuilt (almost had to check myself into an insane-asylum) . I now have a not only new wing but a different wing. I had the PSTOL flaps installed among other things. I am flying all I can to get back up to speed. I noticed today that there was more flap left to come down after I pulled into the 3rd notch. Can't I just cut another notch in past the 3rd notch? I noticed while trying to stall in the 3rd notch that as it was about to stall I pulled back on the flap handle to the end, kinda like the 4th notch that isn't there, and it slowed up even more. WHATDAYATHINK?
 
More is more. Probably wise to try it with full power in a test go-around situation to see if it makes sense to use it all.
 
I'm not the wizard at flap rigging but I'm pretty sure there's always a little left in the flaps on the handful of flapped cubs I've flown. My guess is you need a little over travel on the flap handle and cable so when you lift the handle off the ratchet you're pulling it a little further rather than just straining the cable to get it off the notch in the ratchet. Kind of a "camming over" type of deal.

But it's just a guess. I'm sure someone more familiar with rigging will chime in.
 
Yep. More is more.

I think the PSTOL are a good idea but everything costs breadola and you have to decide if that is where you wanna spend the $10,000 or so for purchase and installation. I changed a whole bunch on my cub when it was rebuilt and I am not sure what is doing what but it's like nothing I have ever flown before. I wouldn't take them off and believe they are way better than the std flaps I'd say.
 
If I was you? I'd add a notch and see how it works. I've made new flap arches four times. I'll probably do four more. I had a local water jetter make me a few full rounds for blanks. Find what you like. It's fun.
 
I noticed today that there was more flap left to come down after I pulled into the 3rd notch. Can't I just cut another notch in past the 3rd notch? I noticed while trying to stall in the 3rd notch that as it was about to stall I pulled back on the flap handle to the end, kinda like the 4th notch that isn't there, and it slowed up even more. WHATDAYATHINK?

If I was you? I'd add a notch and see how it works. I've made new flap arches four times. I'll probably do four more. I had a local water jetter make me a few full rounds for blanks. Find what you like. It's fun.
Like Stewart says, do it. The part with the notches is easily removable with only one bolt.

I can't speak to the Keller flaps. The flaps on my Cub are identical to the original except twice as long. When I put in the extra notch to get the maximum deflection, it required two hands to pull the handle enough to release the catch. Since the plane came with a shortened flap handle I had to lengthen it to get the needed leverage.
 
I'd be curious what your deflection is on your 3rd notch. My flap handle has 4 notches and the last notch is all I can go unless I were to make another, longer ratchet.


As far as P-STOL flaps that is one mod I never want to do without. I don't realize it now that they have been on for 1.5 years untill I fly another Super Cub without them.
 
I'd be curious what your deflection is on your 3rd notch. My flap handle has 4 notches and the last notch is all I can go unless I were to make another, longer ratchet.


As far as P-STOL flaps that is one mod I never want to do without. I don't realize it now that they have been on for 1.5 years untill I fly another Super Cub without them.

Steve do you have stock wings other than the PSTOL flaps? I am cogitating on what I want to do with my wings.
 
I have to agree with Mr Pierce on the wings. The highest time pilot I've ever worked with told me to keep the wings 'just the way Piper designed them'.

Web
 
I too have stock wings (used to have long wings and tips and a cuff) and did add BLR vgs. I did read the STC on the Keller's (I always read directions after I have put something together; luckily I didn't install these bad boys) and it says 50 degrees + or - 4 degrees I believe. Now I gotta figure out how to measure the angle, exactly. Any ideas how to do that?
 
You mean air guides don't admit to operating their Cubs with unapproved mods on their wings? Who knew? ;)

I guess you haven't met too many guides...yes pretty much all of them run stock wings. Lets go check in with Paul Claus and see if he's running any extended/squared/slats/junk on his wings.

All that junk on the wing becomes a big liability in adverse conditions as you've indicated when talking about crosswinds. Sometimes having all that aileron and having a wing that doesn't keep flying when you're on the ground can be a help rather than a hinderance.
 
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Guides (operators) come in 2 flavors (like most everyone else).Those that run 'limited' because they are playing by the rules to the letter, and those that push the limits a little, including mods and rules.
And FWIW, emulating a guide plane for a 'fun' plane is a good way to limit how fun your plane can be.... striving to fly like that guide on the other hand, would be a far better plan to extract performance.

Take care, Rob
 
Do the VG's actually do anything once you install the PSTOL flaps? Would not the reduced deck angle on approach (AOA) eliminate any benefit from VG's?
 
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I guess you haven't met too many guides...yes pretty much all of them run stock wings. Lets go check in with Paul Claus and see if he's running any extended/squared/slats/junk on his wings.

All that junk on the wing becomes a big liability in adverse conditions as you've indicated when talking about crosswinds. Sometimes having all that aileron and having a wing that doesn't keep flying when you're on the ground can be a help rather than a hinderance.

Depends which of his planes you are looking at.
 
Do the VG's actually do anything once you install the PSTOL flaps? Would not the reduced deck angle on approach (AOA) eliminate any benefit from VG's?

You can fly PSTOLs with a slightly more level deck angle and a small reduction in stall speed. You can also get really slow by cranking up the AOA giving you a similar sight picture to standard flaps. Each approach has its place. VGs still do their job in my opinion. Don’t forget that with the Micros you still have vgs on the underside of the stab.
 
I agree with Kevin. Yesterday I landed, VGs and PSTOL, and the tail wheel hit first. How steep was my AOA? Where the VGs helping? I don't know but, like Kevin said, you can still get a more traditional sight picture with the PSTOL fully extended if you want to.
 
You can fly PSTOLs with a slightly more level deck angle and a small reduction in stall speed. You can also get really slow by cranking up the AOA giving you a similar sight picture to standard flaps. Each approach has its place. VGs still do their job in my opinion. Don’t forget that with the Micros you still have vgs on the underside of the stab.
Did you try the same plane with the PSTOLs both with and without the VGs? My opinion is that the PSTOLs perform the same function as the VGs only better. The VGs with the PSTOL flaps are just going along for the ride. I challenge someone to prove me wrong. I'll accept documented proof. :pop:
 
Did you try the same plane with the PSTOLs both with and without the VGs? My opinion is that the PSTOLs perform the same function as the VGs only better. The VGs with the PSTOL flaps are just going along for the ride. I challenge someone to prove me wrong. I'll accept documented proof. :pop:

The nice thing I noticed with vg’s is when I was coming in to land in loudon on a windy day, slow the gust lifted a wing. In my cub with vg’s I move the aileron and the wing lifts. This cub I moved the aileron and nothing happened. Made me say huh that’s interesting. Little rudder and the wing came up.

I haven’t flown pstol flaps yet but they shipped. Should be here in two weeks. I remember when airframes shipping was great.

Pete, you’re welcome to fly my cub and try them out. It will give me a good excuse to fly down on floats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks Tom, that should be fun. I haven't flown that set of floats for years. The airplane they were on had drooping ailerons when the flaps were down.

When you get the pstol flaps installed, take off the Vgs in front of the flaps. Try it.
The Vgs in front of the ailerons are the ones which improved the roll control.
 
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