Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 49

Thread: Widebody Super Cub Project

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like

    Widebody Super Cub Project

    About me
    My name is Max Runia, I'm from Meridian Idaho, 27 years old. I'm not a pilot yet so I'll be pursuing my PPL + tailwheel. I'm a senior software engineer.

    About my project
    - I purchased the fuselage, empennage, and landing gear tubing kits from VR3 Engineering. The tubes are pre-bent and coped ready for jigging and welding.
    - The wing kit is from Javron, it's the squared off wings with 24 gal tanks purchased from another member here. Hopefully be getting those in the next few weeks.
    - engine, avionics, covering, etc,. is still undecided.

    Open questions (to start)
    - Left side door - what are the pros and cons?
    - Where to keep a build log - I have an EAA account and started a build log over there, is there a better way / place to log my build?
    Thanks stknrddr thanked for this post
    Likes stknrddr, Hardtailjohn, Captain Ron liked this post

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here are some photos from me jigging and tacking the vertical stabilizer and rudder
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200912_163150.jpg 
Views:	74 
Size:	93.4 KB 
ID:	51385Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200912_182835.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	51.7 KB 
ID:	51386Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200912_220621.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	58.0 KB 
ID:	51387Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200926_164306.jpg 
Views:	91 
Size:	50.7 KB 
ID:	51388
    Thanks stknrddr thanked for this post

  3. #3
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    3,407
    Post Thanks / Like
    Boots!

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  4. #4
    aeroaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    KEUL (Boise ID area)
    Posts
    93
    Post Thanks / Like
    I didn't know software engineers could weld! Looks like a great project. The local EAA chapter is active and meets at the Nampa airport if you were so inclined.

    For a build log, I just wrote down what I did for the day in a typical journal/log book. Took some pics along the way with my phone. When the DAR inspected the plane, he didn't ask to see a log or pics. Your experience may differ. Even when going down to the local FISDO for my Repairman application, boxes in tow with all the documentation, they didn't look at the logs.

    So I guess it varies from inspector to inspector, but I don't think I would spend a bunch of time on a really nice build log, spend that time building!

    And to Web's point, safety first. Hate to get hurt and slow the build down.
    Likes mike mcs repair, Hardtailjohn liked this post

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    5,476
    Post Thanks / Like
    Have you chosen a DAR yet? Life at the end of project is easier if you know what he'll want to see.

    Left side doors are popular with float planes. I rarely used mine when I had one. I think a big, swing-up window is more useful. And it doesn't interfere with throttle, trim, fuel lines, and flap handle.
    Likes Hardtailjohn, FdxLou liked this post

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    You are right about the sandals, I think the covid work from home has got me too comfortable. I will make sure to wear my work boots when out in the garage.

    Have you chosen a DAR yet?
    I haven't, I just looked on the faa site and looks like there is one here in Meridian named Tim Wilson. Looks like he is a DAR-F capable of (57 – Amateur-built propeller-driven airplanes and powered or unpowered gliders), what is the difference between DAR-F 57 and DAR-T 147? Will either work? Is one better than the other as far as cost or ease of paperwork or anything like that? It will be a few years before it's done I'm sure but good to plan ahead.

    aeroaddict is there a DAR you'd recommend here in the area? Also I would like to come to the monthly EAA meeting, I reached out some time ago but was told the monthly meeting was cancelled due to the virus, would like to come if they're back to meeting!

    For the left side door, I don't plan on putting floats on it but will likely weld on the float fittings just in case. It seems like structurally the left side door would remove some of the strength of the frame, also I watched some of Bill Rusk's video of his Alaska trip and it looked like he just walked around to the other side via a wire between the front of the floats. So maybe it's not even too valuable. I do like the idea of having a flap handle up top like the carbon cubs, but the rest I'd like in the traditional locations.
    Last edited by mrunia; 10-03-2020 at 05:25 PM.
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  7. #7
    aeroaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    KEUL (Boise ID area)
    Posts
    93
    Post Thanks / Like
    Max, I sent you a PM.

  8. #8
    RVBottomly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
    Posts
    868
    Post Thanks / Like
    As for the building log, I'm with aeroaddict. I use one of those bound "composition notebooks", 8 1/2 x 11, and make sure its in a closed drawer while working to keep sparks and metal bits off it. It's still a little greasy, but that just adds to the authenticity, I think.

    I like pen and paper--I use the right side to record time and task, and the left side serves as a sketch pad or place to jot down calculations, etc. Pictures at various steps, too.

    I never understood the web-based approach. When I'm done scorching myself torch-welding or tired from sanding, etc., last thing I want to do is sit at a computer and try to reconstruct what I did for the day.

    Carry on! One of these days when I get some free time, I want to do the southern Idaho circuit--I'd like to stop by and see your project.
    Thanks barrow pilot thanked for this post
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    5,476
    Post Thanks / Like
    My DAR never looked at my “builder’s log” or any of the thousands of pictures I took. He did inspect the airplane with a fine toothed comb and offered advice on what would be better, and I corrected every one of those items after he issued my airworthiness cert. That was a fun day, and not at all what I was told to expect. Build the plane. Fill out the forms. Do the inspection and accept the criticism. Have fun. This is the best part of aviation!
    Likes FdxLou, mike mcs repair, jrussl liked this post

  10. #10
    supercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Smith Pond near Millinocket, Me
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like
    When mine was done the DAR spent as much time on my log and photos as he did on the airplane. About 6 hrs. total. But that was 25 yrs ago. Lots have changed since then. He said by his calculations, it was about 82% and well over the 51% required. He did ask for photos and weight and balance paperwork before he even came to look at it. Came from NH and charged me $500. At that point I had 2000 hrs. in the build. The inspection and first flights were done on floats right from my residence. It was great!
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  11. #11
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    10,519
    Post Thanks / Like
    I understand your comfort level with the electronics record keeping. However, what would happen if somewhere along the way an electrical disaster wiped out your records? I'm with RVBottomly, an old fashioned loose leaf note book with printed photos will be forever and totally under your control.

    The left hand door would be a valuable asset if you were going to be on floats. There are circumstances while "seaplaning" that you must jump out quickly to protect the plane or grab a dock when it is just plain too time consuming to get out on the right float, run across a swinging cable on the bows, and then grab the dock or keep the wing from bashing itself on a piling while the wind is blowing you onto the rocks after your engine was shut down.

    Since you are welding on the float fittings, the plane will eventually be going on floats. If you leave off the float fittings you can leave off the left door.

    There are many who are promoting the overhead flap handle for ease of operation. Consider where your head may be bouncing around should you have the unfortunate circumstance of having an accident. In my mind that is a skull cracker.
    N1PA
    Likes wireweinie liked this post

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    244
    Post Thanks / Like
    Do the float fittings and the left door
    Easy to duplicate the left hand door while you have your jig setup
    Does not affect strength on left side according to all the folks in the business when i installed left door on mine

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for the input guys, some good things to think about for sure.

    Currently working on finishing up tacking the empennage and then I need to build the rest of my table. I built the table in two 10' pieces which will be butted up against each other leveled, checked for flatness, and screwed together. Then onto the fuselage jigging.
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  14. #14
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    19,968
    Post Thanks / Like
    If you install a left door then you have to rework the throttle position. Not worth it to me, I like where my throttle is and find left door throttle locations uncomfortable.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  15. #15
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    10,519
    Post Thanks / Like
    This is the throttle in my Cub with the left door. I find it comfortable. True, it is not at the forward end of an arm rest. The rear throttle may be a bit awkward, but is seldom used.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PeteSmithCub11June1012014.jpg 
Views:	113 
Size:	103.5 KB 
ID:	51433
    N1PA

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    This is maybe a crazy idea, but I'm curious if anyone has tried converting to push/pull for controls? I was watching a video on the CC FX and it sounds like they run them through the wing struts instead of using cables. I got to fly a kitfox for a couple hours last year and the controls were very crisp, wondering if anyone's done it on a exp super cub..

  17. #17
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    10,519
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mrunia View Post
    This is maybe a crazy idea, but I'm curious if anyone has tried converting to push/pull for controls? I was watching a video on the CC FX and it sounds like they run them through the wing struts instead of using cables. I got to fly a kitfox for a couple hours last year and the controls were very crisp, wondering if anyone's done it on a exp super cub..
    Push pull rod controls require a clear straight space. At the end of the space a bellcrank is needed to change the direction of the push. Push rods move in an arc at the ends of their travel so require space. As many bellcranks as there are directions to change. It is not impossible though you may find in a Cub clone there would be more involved than just running cables over pulleys. Some light airplanes do use push rods. The ones I've seen are about 1" in diameter. That is a lot of space when compared to a 1/8" cable.
    If you wish to run the push rods up a strut, the strut will have to be larger than a conventional Cub strut in order to accommodate the push rod.
    Some planes use a combination of a cable system to drive the push rods.

    If you choose this route, be certain to carefully think the entire system through thoroughly before you commit.
    N1PA

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Next Question: Covering Systems

    - Poly-Fiber
    - Stewart Systems
    - Oratex

    From my limited research so far it sounds like the poly-fiber is a tried and true solution, stewart systems is nice because it's less chemicals.. Oratex is nice because you only need to paint on whatever accent colors you choose.

    I'm still pretty early on in my research but Oratex is looking pretty appealing. Anyone have a good or bad experience with Oratex?

    Also please chime in if there is any other covering system I haven't heard of yet that you'd reccomend.

  19. #19
    aeroaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    KEUL (Boise ID area)
    Posts
    93
    Post Thanks / Like
    My $0.02.

    I had no experience with any of these until I build my plane, ended up using Poly-Fiber.

    I checked into Oratex and actually called the guy but was unimpressed with his customer communication skills. I also know of a local cub that was covered in oratex and I was not overly impressed as the pinking strips did not match in color and wrinkled over time (plane was a single color). I do not know of the durability or how easy it can be field repaired. Not sure about your comment on painting over oratex for the accent colors.

    If I was to build another plane, I would definitely check out Stewart Systems, primarily due to the fact that Poly-Fiber uses a lot of solvents and it STINKS! I'm surprised I didn't get busted at the airport with my home made paint booth.

    Poly-Fiber is a great system, proven and easy to use. The plane turned out nice and the few patches I have done are easy and durable.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Look into Superflight, it will save a lot of labor time. https://superflite.com/pages/why-superflite
    Denny

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Fargo
    Posts
    733
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Look into Superflight, it will save a lot of labor time. https://superflite.com/pages/why-superflite
    Denny
    How does it save lots in labor?

  22. #22
    gntw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Ft. St. John BC Can.
    Posts
    135
    Post Thanks / Like
    My son and I have done 3 cubs with oratex with good results. Easy to repair and real tough to damage. First plane sons 12 with all new parts took 12 days to do. 240 hrs. We are doing a pa-14 this winter. We have done 6 poly fiber jobs and no more, if u use areothane paint hard to fix. My cub has 22 yr old polytone on it easy to fix but don’t match when old and faded. Will get oratex next few years. Oratex can be paint we put decals on. If u want more info pm me.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    How does it save lots in labor?
    Less time in the paint booth.

    Poly-Fiber

    Glue on the fabric with our Poly-Tak fabric cement; tighten it with the heat of a calibrated clothing iron.
    Brush on a coat of Poly-Brush fabric sealer.
    Riblace, then apply gussets and finishing tapes with more Poly-Brush.
    Spray on two more coats of Poly-Brush.
    Spray on three cross coats of silver Poly-Spray to block ultraviolet radiation.
    Spray on two coats of top coat paint, either Poly-Tone or Aero-Thane.



    Superflight
    Glue on fabric, tighten with iron
    Two coats of primer/filler
    one -two topcoat.
    DENNY

  24. #24
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
    Posts
    3,669
    Post Thanks / Like
    I heard there was a problem with Oratex STC. What's the status on that?
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  25. #25
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Marion, MT
    Posts
    789
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm partial to Stewarts, but then I did a lot of the work on it in the 90's. It's good stuff.
    John

  26. #26
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    10,519
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Stewarts is particularly nice if you are doing the work where the fumes can leak into your home. There are none.
    N1PA

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Fargo
    Posts
    733
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think you’ll find that guys like myself that rebuild/cover cubs for a living use poly fiber for covering, I’ve tried all but ortex and will give it a try at some point. Poly fiber is very simple to use gives consistent results and has a long service history on how it will handle the elements. You do have solvents to deal with but with any spray on system you need to have the proper protection even Stewart’s.

  28. #28
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    10,519
    Post Thanks / Like
    Back in the day, Irish linen and Nitrate dope was the best producing 15 or more years of life expectancy. After that it was wise to take it off for a through inspection. Now with lifetime fabrics, there is never an excuse for a good inspection until it is too late under normal circumstances.
    N1PA

  29. #29
    aeroaddict's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    KEUL (Boise ID area)
    Posts
    93
    Post Thanks / Like
    Good to know about Oratex, it is really attractive from an application standpoint. I really wanted to try Oratex but could not make it work out. Maybe next plane.
    Labor time wise, I would guess Oratex would win.

  30. #30
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    11,370
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Look into Superflight, it will save a lot of labor time. https://superflite.com/pages/why-superflite
    Denny
    Not!

    That’s the stuff the customer chose for current project definitely not time or labor savings in that stuff. But that’s what they try to sell you it as. And getting it can take MONTHS!!!!

    Polyfiber or dope is best

    And there’s not a chance I will ever use oratex, too crappy looking, and you must wax it


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  31. #31
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    3,407
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Back in the day, Irish linen and Nitrate dope was the best producing 15 or more years of life expectancy. After that it was wise to take it off for a through inspection. Now with lifetime fabrics, there is never an excuse for a good inspection until it is too late under normal circumstances.
    I was taught the same thing when dealing with Razorback (fiberglass) covering. It would last so long that it needed to be removed from time to time, as the structure it covered might corrode without being discovered.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
    Likes mike mcs repair, Hardtailjohn liked this post

  32. #32
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    10,519
    Post Thanks / Like
    Razorback was durable and heavy. The wings on one of my Bamboo Bombers was covered with it.
    N1PA

  33. #33
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    3,407
    Post Thanks / Like
    When they cut it off and threw it in a landfill, where ever that is, I'll guarantee the fabric is still in good shape.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
    Likes skywagon8a, Charlie Longley liked this post

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mrunia View Post
    About me
    My name is Max Runia, I'm from Meridian Idaho, 27 years old. I'm not a pilot yet so I'll be pursuing my PPL + tailwheel. I'm a senior software engineer.

    About my project
    - I purchased the fuselage, empennage, and landing gear tubing kits from VR3 Engineering. The tubes are pre-bent and coped ready for jigging and welding.
    - The wing kit is from Javron, it's the squared off wings with 24 gal tanks purchased from another member here. Hopefully be getting those in the next few weeks.
    - engine, avionics, covering, etc,. is still undecided.

    Open questions (to start)
    - Left side door - what are the pros and cons?
    - Where to keep a build log - I have an EAA account and started a build log over there, is there a better way / place to log my build?
    I didn’t see a wide body supercub on there list?

  35. #35
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    19,968
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Not!

    That’s the stuff the customer chose for current project definitely not time or labor savings in that stuff. But that’s what they try to sell you it as. And getting it can take MONTHS!!!!
    Can you elaborate. Did some Superflite here and really like the glue. Attached the fabric, stittched and then taped, sprayed pimer which needed little sanding and painted color. Seemed like less work to me.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  36. #36
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    19,968
    Post Thanks / Like
    Curious to what your experience was Mike. I usually use Polyfiber, have used dope and Airtec. ???
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    don
    Posts
    755
    Post Thanks / Like
    Max,

    Come to Ontario and buy my plane. Save lots of $$. Fly now.

  38. #38
    supercrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Smith Pond near Millinocket, Me
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have done the Superflite and agree with Steve. Less work. Still prefer the p. Fiber result but do what ever the customer wants. The S. Flite looked good and held up well.

  39. #39

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by darenlhr View Post
    I didn’t see a wide body supercub on there list?
    You'll have to email him, I don't think he lists it on his website but it's a good kit. He'll send you some of the drawings if you email him.

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Covering Systems (an updated list):

    - poly-fiber
    - steward systems
    - oratex
    - superflite
    - star gloss

    Joel - the guy who delivered the Javron wings this AM mentioned Star Gloss as being a re-branding of poly-fiber.. not sure if there's a difference between the two?

Similar Threads

  1. Fuel pods suit Widebody PA18 Super Cub
    By Lowleveldevil in forum Experimental Cubs
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-14-2020, 08:17 PM
  2. FS: 2008 Widebody Super Cub $180K
    By Akbushrat in forum Airplanes
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-13-2020, 06:37 AM
  3. Super Cub project
    By Bearhawk Builder in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 92
    Last Post: 10-10-2019, 07:19 PM
  4. LOOKING FOR A SUPER CUB PROJECT
    By palhal in forum Super Cub Sick Bay
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-12-2006, 09:56 PM
  5. Super Cub Project and Sex
    By keywestflyer in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-16-2005, 10:05 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •