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Thread: Increasing Fuel...

  1. #1
    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Increasing Fuel...

    I am curious about the ability to increase the fuel tanks in a Carbon Cub SS. Most seem to have 24 gallons with a 180HP engine and I am looking for more ďrangeĒ than that would allow. By quoting range I am not looking at cross country trips, just the ability to hang out in the Idaho backcountry for 5 days without making fuel runs every other day.

    Thanks in advance,

    Jay

  2. #2
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Increasing Fuel...

    Cub crafters sells a carbon fiber fuel pod. Just put one on and it gets tied into the left wing. Great quality, directions arenít the greatest but you can figure it out easily. I think itís 32 or 38 gallons. Uses the float attachment and the rear gear bolt.


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    wireweinie's Avatar
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    How about fuel bags? Leave the bags at camp and refill on return. Allows you to operate without hauling the entire load of fuel around.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Cub crafters sells a carbon fiber fuel pod. Just put one on and it gets tied into the left wing. Great quality, directions arenít the greatest but you can figure it out easily. I think itís 32 or 38 gallons. Uses the float attachment and the rear gear bolt.


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    just installed the Lewaero fuel tank purchased from Cub Crafters on my CC EX this week for the exact reason noted above. 24 gals even in New England had many trips at the edge of my comfort level. Not a big fan of watching the site gauges dip real low! 60 gals potential now...way beyond my bladder range. Randy is correct. Great form, fit, finish, and function. We did have a few head scratching moments with the install which I passed onto Eric Lewis.
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  5. #5

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    Reports of high carbon monoxide levels in cabins of cubs with belly tanks over on the CubCrafters forum. Anyone seeing this here?

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    Turbopilot. I also saw the Posts regarding high CO levels In CCs with belly pods and Velcroed a digital CO detector to my panel. In addition to the instant CO reading It has a memory function that captures the highest reading when turned on. On my first flight with the Lewaero pod and CO monitor the highest reading was 24 ppm. Not too bad, but worrying.

    The CC posts on high CO readings mentioned ensuring positive pressure in the cabin to keep exhaust from being sucked in. I turned the openings of the circular ceiling vents from facing rearward to forward. Even when closed the vents are not tightly sealed and in flight when Facing rearward produce a negative suction.

    I now have 4 hours with the Lewaero fuel pod and forward facing vents. CO levels are low single digits or 0. These readings were with cabin heat both on and off.

    Chip
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    Colorguns's Avatar
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    Curious. How does it hook into and feed the left take?
    thanks
    Doug

  8. #8
    mvivion's Avatar
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    And your “legal” useful load is ?

    MTV

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    It tees into the existing fuel lines just below the fuel selector (both, left, right, off) on the left side of the cabin. The instructions were pretty good. The pump switch is located on the seat base


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    A good amount! EAB 1865 lb gross weight. 948 Lb original empty weight now with + 20 lbs for the pod. (968 lb).

    60 gal fuel 360 lb. pilot and passenger 360 lb (+/-). Leaves ~ 170 lb for baggage. Iím sure the sink rate will increase significantly at those weights and donít anticipate many flights at those numbers.

    the pod is mostly for the 10 or 20 gals I need for feel good reserves as the sight gauges get low on some of my New England Area flights But itís there if I want to have really long legs!
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    Quote Originally Posted by N58EX View Post
    the pod is mostly for the 10 or 20 gals I need for feel good reserves as the sight gauges get low on some of my New England Area flights But it’s there if I want to have really long legs!
    A smaller, conformal pod of 15 to 20 gallons would make more sense and likely result in different aerodynamics on the belly.

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    Agree... I understand your point, but so far am very pleased with the form, fit and function of the Lewaero pod and the ability to have really long legs should some future “mission” require. I guess it’s a “Tim Allen Tool Time type of thing”.
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I recently took a PA18 from Silver City, New Mexico to Bentonville, Arkansas with a fuel pod, CO never got over 4 ppm on my longest 5 hr leg.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah-Jay View Post
    I am curious about the ability to increase the fuel tanks in a Carbon Cub SS. Most seem to have 24 gallons with a 180HP engine and I am looking for more “range” than that would allow. By quoting range I am not looking at cross country trips, just the ability to hang out in the Idaho backcountry for 5 days without making fuel runs every other day...
    How much more fuel are you talking about?
    Can a set of 18 gallon tanks be fitted to a CC?
    That'd give you another 12 gallons.
    Or a set of the 30 gallon Atlee Dodge tanks?
    That'd give you more than double.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  16. #16

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    Crash with fuel belly tank and you burn. I mean YOU burn!
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    Utah-Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by don d View Post
    Crash with fuel belly tank and you burn. I mean YOU burn!
    That is not a great thought. I like the idea of 4 hours plus VFR reserve.

  18. #18

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    Anyone seen Acme's new gear with the detachable fuel pods? Cool idea.

  19. #19
    Scouter's Avatar
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    I would be extremely cautious cutting into the factory fuel system to T in an aux tank. I have a small aux tank that I sometimes use, I put it in rear baggage, it pumps it to the top of the wing where we put the T behind the sight guage
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QJrVUZKcxrU&t=635s

    an air bubble caused by transfer pump causes fuel starvation
    Jim
    Last edited by Scouter; 11-05-2020 at 02:59 AM.

  20. #20

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    Think this topic came up before.
    Awhile back I built a 12 gal “ferry tank” mounts in cargo area behind seat, plumbed as per plans for air glass belly fuel pod. Quick connects for fuel and vent. Pins to safari seat mounts.
    I’ll use it up first, easy to remove at destination.
    No, I wouldn’t want to crash with it but can’t be much worse than 36 gallons of fuel 12” from your head. It’s also a lot stronger .050, and, unlike main tanks, surrounded by a tube structure.
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    Last edited by Oliver; 11-04-2020 at 02:55 PM.
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  21. #21
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    How much more fuel are you talking about?
    Can a set of 18 gallon tanks be fitted to a CC?
    That'd give you another 12 gallons.
    Or a set of the 30 gallon Atlee Dodge tanks?
    That'd give you more than double.
    Not cost effective. I recovered a set of ss wings and wanted to add the CubCrafters long range tanks. They quoted north of 10k for the parts. Itís a couple thousand dollar option on the kit planes.


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    Scouter's Avatar
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    Here’s A good project tom Make the aux tank part of the seat base for the rear seat seat cushion flips up to fill the tank electric pump pump it up into the wing. Heck even a FS 450 to keep track. I’ll take one please
    jim

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  23. #23
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Always plumb aux tank up into top of sight gauge. Then you can see if itís actually transferring. And you donít introduce air like the one Diagram someone posted above.


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  24. #24
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    I've had this outfit build one ferry tank, and a very complicated 3 gallon header tank. The header tank was all tapers....., and beyond my drafting ability apparently, and since I already had a cardboard duct taped mockup, I UPS'd it to them. I marked right on the mockup where I wanted the fittings to go, and how big. 2 weeks later I got the tank, PERFECT. Reasonable price also, under 300 bucks. http://www.rdsaluminum.com/
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  25. #25
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    Hereís A good project tom Make the aux tank part of the seat base for the rear seat seat cushion flips up to fill the tank electric pump pump it up into the wing. Heck even a FS 450 to keep track. Iíll take one please
    jim

    Your EX-3 will have long range tanks though


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  26. #26
    Scouter's Avatar
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    Well played sir

  27. #27
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Long ago I had an 18 gallon aluminum belly tank project going through the STC process. Never completed it after building three tanks.
    I just happen to have a collection of new leftover Facet fuel pumps which are very suitable for fuel transfer. 1/4" npt for the fittings.
    If anyone is interested.
    N1PA
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Always plumb aux tank up into top of sight gauge. Then you can see if it’s actually transferring. And you don’t introduce air like the one Diagram someone posted above.
    NEVER transfer fuel during a critical stage of flight.
    (in other than straight & level flight, and/or below cruising altitude)
    Someone posted a much-discussed video here not long ago after having a mishap involving a fuel transfer & a river.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  29. #29

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    If you plumb it as Mike described, there’s no valves involved (except a check valve between aux and left main). Only a 12 v switch that activates transfer pump.
    if fuel is not bubbling in your site gauge during transfer you can assume that you don’t have access to aux fuel and must plan accordingly.
    I always pump aux dry as soon as mains will accept it. Then confirm aux is empty with aux sight gauge.
    Re earlier referenced "fuel starvation water landing" Not much knowledge to be gained from that as I suspect the pilot either, had no idea how his fuel system worked, or, did not accurately report the circumstances surrounding incident, I suspect both.

    Yes, playing with fuel valves during vulnerable phases of flight is a bad idea.
    unless the engine has already stopped running
    Last edited by Oliver; 11-05-2020 at 08:27 PM.
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  30. #30

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    Anyone have the 11 gallon Stoddardís drawings? I have the paper work....forwarded to Cub Crafters four years ago...did they do anything with it?


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  31. #31
    courierguy's Avatar
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    I've been flying with different aux. fuel tanks for over 20 years in two different Rans S-7s. All are designed to come out quickly as I only burn mogas and need a way to go get it. I didn't plumb either up into a wing tank because I already had a line handy, coming out of the bottom of my header tank and a few inches away, headed forward thru the fire wall. Not wanting to run any additional line and keeping the fittings to a minimum was my reasoning. So, I teed into that main feed line, and then installed a shutoff valve I can reach in flight. When my aux tank (bladder actually) is onboard, it's plugged in via a quick disconnect fitting that stops any flow when disconnected. The valve is a backup to that, and in theory not needed. A panel mounted switch starts the Facet pump, and a green idiot light reminds me it's pumping. IF I ignore the light or get distracted looking out the window, and the aux tank empties, the Rotax will let me know in no uncertain terms that it's time to shut the transfer pump off. The thing is.....and I have verified this several times, both as a test and thru carelessness, the split second I turn the pump off, the engine instantly resumes 100% normal operation. So though I agree with the way Mike says to do it, I'm not going to run an additional few feet of fuel line, (3 or 4') one reason being I have NEVER chosen to transfer fuel when down low, I have other ways to get my thrills. The pilot who had the big problem with his system, either didn't shut the pump off, to instantly resume normal ops, or there is something different about the Lycoming fuel feed delivery, and the resultant air bubbles were somehow trapped? But yeah, plumb it higher up into the system and it is a non issue. And I don't care how it's plumbed, probably best to only mess with it with a little altitude.
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  32. #32

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    I have the Atlee Dodge tanks in my PA-18, 61 total gallons, giving me a flying range well beyond my bladder range ��. I usually fly with half tanks.
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