Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: PA-11 Fuel Tanks

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    PA-11 Fuel Tanks

    I just acquired a PA-11 project that currently only has a tank in one wing I have been looking for options to install a second tank and see only 2 STC options for now, the first being the Wag Aero 11 ˝ Gallon tank and the second the full blown PA-18 fuel system. Is there anyone out there that has experience with these?
    Any other recommendations?

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    SE Montana
    Posts
    351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Do you NEED more fuel? The 11 is a great plane when kept light.

  3. #3
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    10,561
    Post Thanks / Like
    I've owned a Pa11/18-95 type for over 26 years. I sometimes thought I wanted a bigger fuel supply, but 3000 hrs later the single tank 3 hrs flying time works just fine. I throw a couple 2.5 cans in the back when traveling

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Likes barrow pilot liked this post

  4. #4
    JP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Big Woods of Maine
    Posts
    3,273
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have the standard left tank and an old Stoddard 9 gallon on the right. Rarely use the Stoddard (mine has a small leak). Much, much easier to simply toss a fuel bag or two in the back seat and strap them in. Good to stop every couple hours in any event nowadays. I flight plan on 3 at 5 gph on average, with 2.5 to fuel being a goal with .5 reserve. The Alaskan fuel bags (purchased at NH years back) easily carry 5.5 gal apiece and strap right in the seat or baggage. Just lay one on the wing, open the valeve and presto fuel.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special

  5. #5
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,424
    Post Thanks / Like
    There is an outfit that sells an 11 gallon tank for the right wing. I’ll try to find the name. Out west, it’s a little farther between gas stops. I put one in my 11 and never looke back.

    Ive heard some horror stories about the Wag tanks.

    MTV
    Thanks RVBottomly thanked for this post

  6. #6
    Waldo M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Finger Lakes area, western NY.
    Posts
    113
    Post Thanks / Like
    Like others I would advocate keeping it light and living with the original one tank. I have one Alaska fuel bag and have needed it only twice in five years, but I do live in the Northeast. I'm happier with a light airplane and don't mind an extra stop. The empty weight on our PA-11 is 775 pounds and endurance with full fuel is 3.6 hours with the C90-8F installed

    I guess it just depends on where you're flying and what you use the airplane for.
    Likes JP liked this post

  7. #7
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    MT/SD
    Posts
    556
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ive got 2 18 gal tanks. Pa18 system. I agree it depends on mission. Between eastern mt and western sd i can cover a lot of country. Ive got almost 7 hours full fuel. That means i can fly 3 hrs to a camping spot, then 3 hours home and have lots of reserve and not having to hunt for or pack gas. My performance doesnt suffer that much. In fall, say a 300' take off goes up to 500' loaded. I dont need a helicopter. On a hot summer day maybe 800'. C90-8. Thats at 3400' elev. So for me the gas capacity out weighs the performance reduction. You dont have to fly full of gas all the time. And it is nice when you want a full 18 gals to ballast the weight ie..9 gal a side. The numbers are a guess but i mow a 660' runway and havnt over run it yet.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
    Thanks Doug Budd thanked for this post

  8. #8
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    MT/SD
    Posts
    556
    Post Thanks / Like
    Oh, ill add one other benifit to the extra tank, your not using your much needed cabin space for extra gas!
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  9. #9
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,424
    Post Thanks / Like
    Biplanes Inc is the outfit that made the 11 gallon tank I referred to. Couldn’t find them, but I see Aircraft Spruce now has an 11 gallon tank with STC, maybe they bought it.

    Nice compared to 18 gallon tank for two reasons: mainly, it fits between ribs, so no major surgery to install. And 11 more gallons is plenty, so it’s a little less weight than an 18 gallon tank.

    I have to laugh when guys talk loud about “keep it light” then proceed to say carry a few gas bags in the cockpit. I guess gas in the cabin has no weight......

    Come out west, and you’ll wish you had that extra gas, AND some cabin space for camp gear. And no gas in cabin.

    MTV

  10. #10

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    SE Montana
    Posts
    351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Any idea how much weight the 11 gallon tank adds?

  11. #11
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Fairbanks, AK.
    Posts
    2,751
    Post Thanks / Like
    More than a few times I appreciated two large wing tanks in my former PA-11. Especially on floats and extra especially when headwinds and turbulence reduced groundspeed. With a flat 74/40 prop cruise is freeway speed but fuel burn lower. Never got around to figuring miles per gallon.

    Gary
    Likes alaskadrifter liked this post

  12. #12
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northern Maine
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like
    My PA-11 had a PA 18 tank sawed in two with an end welded into it, for a net capacity of 9 gals. The tank was plumbed
    down the back of windshield on right side,
    it had on/off selector inline right up as it entered the cabin. It was placarded " Not for Takeoff or Landing" the reason being ,no header tank and it was T ed into
    the fuel line ' in front of the left selector switch's just before it passed out thru the firewall. It worked good enough to fly it to Alaska from Maine with just needle/ball
    and airspeed ..........
    About everyone I knew in Alaska had two 18 gal tanks, and that was a much better safer system imho. 7 hrs range plus . The empty weight gain, of the extra 18 gal tank, would be something in the order of 3/4 lbs
    over a 9/11 gal tank, or basically not measure able in real world terms. So to me the only reason to consider installing a smaller tank is if the wing is already covered, it easyer. But if your redoing you wings , I would certainly simply run the 18 system.
    About every 18/95 in Alaska has been converted to an 18 gal tank in right wing for
    same reasons.
    Good Luck
    E

    Sent from my moto e5 go using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Thanks JeffP thanked for this post

  13. #13

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Posts
    604
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have 2 18 gal tanks in my Exp 11. The tanks are out of a PA22. I’ll weigh one tomorrow since one is out on my workbench. They are pretty darn light. I plan to use the left tank mostly when normal operations....when I go on a longer backcountry I can fill up the right tank and have that auxiliary fuel. There is a steel tube brace that also goes through the inside of the tank diagonally so that weight must also be accounted for.

  14. #14
    39-J3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    568
    Post Thanks / Like
    Two 18 gallon tanks. 90% of the time I fill them 1/2 full, but it is nice to top them off when I plan longer trips. I will never win the lightest cub award but it serves my mission.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PA11 on Skis.png 
Views:	74 
Size:	352.2 KB 
ID:	53006

    Larry.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Posts
    604
    Post Thanks / Like
    I only had a fish scale that I use to pull test my fly wires, but I weighed the PA22 18 gal tank from my EX 11 project and it comes in at 8 lbs...the cross brace tube is around 8 oz.....it later dawned on me that the tank lid would weigh a bit more on an 18 gal tank, but I forgot to weigh it. I think I will like the extra fuel as some of us are planning a possible trip to Alaska. I will likely not use the right tank when fooling around locally....we will see after flight testing.

  16. #16
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,424
    Post Thanks / Like
    The PA 18 type certificate gives the right side 18 gallon tank installed weight as 8 pounds.

    MTV
    Likes Dan Gervae liked this post

  17. #17
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northern Maine
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mike,
    8 lbs extra sound right over no tank in right side, but I am guessing it's really only a couple pounds over and 11 gal tank. Either
    way it's a no brainier, as that mod and extended baggage( carbon fiber pod) are first two things I would want, to be able to utilize an 11. A PA 11 used to haul 80lb bags of grain up to top of Mt Susitna for the horses, 6 bags was everyday load in an 11
    With seaplane prop. But in perfect conditions 8 bags was done more than once..........
    Do NOT try this at home!

    Sent from my moto e5 go using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Likes 39-J3 liked this post

  18. #18
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,424
    Post Thanks / Like
    Oh, I totally agree. After my first trip to Oshkosh with my 11 and left tank only, which resulted in landing somewhere the middle of SD which supposedly had gas......then sweating bullets as I approached an airport with gas......

    As soon as I got home, I bought an 11 gallon tank from Biplanes, inc, and never looked back.....just the right amount of fuel for most everything. Only real advantage over 18 gallon tank was no cutting rib to install, just a drop in.

    Now, your mention of hauling stuff to Mt. Susitna reminded me of George Kitchen hauling fuel up there in his Super Cub for the AF. Cans of diesel in back seat/ baggage and 32 gallon belly tank full of diesel fuel. George did some stuff, what a character....

    MTV
    Likes RaisedByWolves, jrussl, Airguide liked this post

  19. #19
    JP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Big Woods of Maine
    Posts
    3,273
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by TurboBeaver View Post
    Mike,
    8 lbs extra sound right over no tank in right side, but I am guessing it's really only a couple pounds over and 11 gal tank. Either
    way it's a no brainier, as that mod and extended baggage( carbon fiber pod) are first two things I would want, to be able to utilize an 11. A PA 11 used to haul 80lb bags of grain up to top of Mt Susitna for the horses, 6 bags was everyday load in an 11
    With seaplane prop. But in perfect conditions 8 bags was done more than once..........
    Do NOT try this at home!

    Sent from my moto e5 go using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    When we did the rebuild on my -11 we installed the extended baggage on a 337. Dwight in Milo did it and it is very useful.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
    Likes 39-J3 liked this post

  20. #20
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    11,081
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Oh, I totally agree. After my first trip to Oshkosh with my 11 and left tank only, which resulted in landing somewhere the middle of SD which supposedly had gas......then sweating bullets as I approached an airport with gas......

    MTV
    At least you were in a PA-11. Try it with an overloaded thirsty Widgeon in Canada's remote locations where the first airport had no gas, the second was being bull dozed and the final one was on the other side of a deep gorge. With the fuel gauges on E for an hour.
    N1PA
    Likes JP liked this post

  21. #21
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,424
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    At least you were in a PA-11. Try it with an overloaded thirsty Widgeon in Canada's remote locations where the first airport had no gas, the second was being bull dozed and the final one was on the other side of a deep gorge. With the fuel gauges on E for an hour.
    Oh, I've been there as well, though not in a Widgeon. Bear ate my fuel cache.....etc.

    Big fun. Too old for that nonsense nowadays.

    MTV
    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  22. #22
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northern Maine
    Posts
    881
    Post Thanks / Like
    For those that don't know it, the world's record Moose that stood for many years was actually shot ontop of Mt Susitna, it is in the B&C book listed to Bert Klinburger.
    The guide was Joe Delia, this picture tells
    the whole story of how tough Alaskan guides we're back in those days. Joe worked for many years with Ward Gay, who
    owned SeaAirmotive for 40 yearsClick image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20201213-074730.jpeg 
Views:	81 
Size:	54.7 KB 
ID:	53090
    From the Ward Gay collection. Strap 2 Alaskan 70" Moose on your back sometime
    and see how far you make it, Delia was claimed to have super human strength.

    Sent from my moto e5 go using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Likes 40m, mam90, 1934A, JP, Kid Durango and 2 others liked this post

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Joe Delia - There’s a blast from the past! I knew him when he was the Postmaster in Skwentna and lived just across the river from the airport. A real gentlemen!

    https://iditarod.com/remembering-joe...itarod-family/
    Likes Scooter7779h, BC12D-4-85, TurboBeaver liked this post

  24. #24

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    Late in replying to everyone on this but just got the plane flying a couple of weeks ago and did about 7 hours on it so far, weathered out today. With that I am still considering the R/H Wag-Aero 11.5 Gal tank. Does anyone have any photo's of the process of installing the Wag-Aero tank in a covered wing? Just curious how much recovering is involved. I can do the fabric work, but not sure I want to open up top & bottom the inside rib of the wing. Its covered using the Randolpf process and what I have found so far doing the minimal repairs it needed that the paint just peals off the fabric in sheets. Sticking down to the fabric well until I mess around in the area. then the little dolor patch turns into a one square foot paint repair.

    Can I just cut a place large enough to drop the tank in from the top and then put a metal cover over the tank? What, if any, instructions for covers are in the Wag-Aero STC?

    Thank you
    Dan M

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    270
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan M View Post
    Late in replying to everyone on this but just got the plane flying a couple of weeks ago and did about 7 hours on it so far, weathered out today. With that I am still considering the R/H Wag-Aero 11.5 Gal tank. Does anyone have any photo's of the process of installing the Wag-Aero tank in a covered wing? Just curious how much recovering is involved. I can do the fabric work, but not sure I want to open up top & bottom the inside rib of the wing. Its covered using the Randolpf process and what I have found so far doing the minimal repairs it needed that the paint just peals off the fabric in sheets. Sticking down to the fabric well until I mess around in the area. then the little dolor patch turns into a one square foot paint repair.

    Can I just cut a place large enough to drop the tank in from the top and then put a metal cover over the tank? What, if any, instructions for covers are in the Wag-Aero STC?

    Thank you
    Dan M
    The WagAero tank does not work in the PA11 because of the aileron balance able location. Bi Plane Investment tank is your only choice for a new tank.

  26. #26
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,424
    Post Thanks / Like
    I agree with Bob, the Biplanes tank is what you need. I didn't install mine, but it was installed by cutting the top fabric, mounting the tank, then replacing the top fabric. I see no reason why you couldn't fabricate a metal tank cover, but it'd probably be more weight and more work....or not.

    MTV

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    7,384
    Post Thanks / Like
    More work, more weight, and not necessary, unless Biplanes graduated to a less talented welder. Stuck mine in in 1997, fly every day, and not a drop of trouble. Just recover it. Usually, Randolph dope is the best (or was). Original installer must have skimped on the brush coat or something.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have been trying to find somethings on Biplanes but haven't found any contact yet? Any out there have a phone number or Email for them?

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    270
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan M View Post
    I have been trying to find somethings on Biplanes but haven't found any contact yet? Any out there have a phone number or Email for them?
    Dan, the email and phone for Scot Prescott, he will get back to you. It's a great tank.
    Scootairllc@aol.com
    802-233-5591

  30. #30

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks I sent him an Email and look forward to hearing from him.
    Dan M

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 04-20-2018, 03:39 PM
  2. Pa-14 fuel tanks
    By Hoonahcub in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-01-2015, 10:53 AM
  3. PA-22 Fuel Tanks in a PA-12
    By kevin in forum Member to Member
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-08-2014, 07:44 AM
  4. Fuel tanks
    By Fortysix12 in forum Modifications
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-30-2004, 12:51 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •