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Beringer ALG vs. Acme Aero for FX3

hawgdrvr

Registered User
FL001
I have a FX3 on order for next May/June. I'm an experienced pilot (3K hours) but inexperienced TW with now over 10 hours and increasing in the months ahead including TacAero formal training in TX. I want to outfit my FX3 with the best and safest configuration for landings as this is where it seems the incidents occur. Quite a few ground loops with FX3's and have also seen some with broken Acme shocks. I'm being told Beringer is the best, it is pricey, but so is the cost of repair. I'm told the 3X3 design is from the 1940's and that FX3's are heavier and newer with the design essentially outdated and a better gear design is needed. Beringer appears to answer that call.

What is the recommendation for gear on a FX3 without cost being a factor? I am also planning on Beringer wheels and brakes as that does seem to be proven to be the best so this question is only about the landing gear system.
 
The gear is not the issue, and throwing money at a aircraft will do little to prevent a ground loop. The best and safest configuration is for the pilot to have been properly trained. If you get a chance do some time in a pacer with a good instructor. Also learn to SLOW DOWN.
DENNY
 
Don't take the words of guys who haven't flown the new breed of Cub suspension. Myself? I had the chance to use Porter style gear. Not interested. I like Cub gear. In concert with TK-1 shocks? Light years ahead of what was previously available. I'm positive my enthusiasm would be the same with Acme. You're getting a state of the art Cub. A modern marvel. These are the days. Don't get stuck in the old days.
 
I’m speaking a bit out of turn but I’ve seen a carbon cub with the Beringer gear and it looked like any kind of xwind landing would be sporty. Think Wilga, Helio or Fairchild with one gear leg mushy and compressed and the other being picked up and extended on the upwind side. The travel is impressive but now you’re taking an extremely fast cub and hanging a bunch of droopy gear out in the wind.

As far as the brakes and wheels, they are lighter and it sounds like the brakes work well. Are they that much better considering the price?

Before you pass judgement on the Acmes, call out there and talk to those guys. I was skeptical also until a buddy and I bought a set. They are heads above most everything else out there. Dump your flaps at 3-4’ and see what happens. You’ll have a smile on your face.....Butch Kingston runs a set on his carbon cub I think. Talk to him or watch his runs at the Gainsville STOL deal this last spring. Doesn’t suck!

Whats your mission? 130mph to a grass strip or big rocks, long props? If it’s the later I’d feel bad using a 330k cub as a shoehorn
 
It's not the landing gear, it's the pilot. Money doesn't make the pilot better. In some cases it is just the opposite.
 
If money's no object perhaps you should look into Airframes' titanium gear. It won't do anything their steel gear won't do but it weighs less and costs a lot. That fits the FX3 mindset pretty well. ;)

Whichever way you go you're going to have a blast. Have you started on your parts yet? I'd enjoy hearing about the FX process from your perspective. It's a very interesting program.
 
I have over 1,400 landings on the Acme Aero Gen 3 shocks. They are awesome!

As several stated above, it’s not the plane or the shocks, it is a LOT of careful practice. Go out and do 5, 10 or more landings EVERY time you fly. Make yourself hit a specific spot on the runway that you identify while on downwind. Make yourself hit the centerline on every landing. Go around if you miss either the spot or the centerline!
 
I agree with Ted lots of practice makes the difference .I too also have well over a thousand landings on Acme Aero shocks I changed over from AOSS Five years ago I installed them on my FX2 and had no issues, did the builders assist on a FX3 last December completed the plane first of March installed a new set on Acme Aero Gen 3 & the Acme Aero Tailwheel suspension I do lots of Backcountry Flying in the Wrangell Mountains and would highly recommend the Shock Package I’m running 35s ABW on this FX3 with 3x3 gear great combination.
 
I think the key here is not the gear (no rhyme intended), but stick time. The first year (at very high insurance rates) I did numerous, hundreds of landings on 8.50' tires (3X3 gear, Acme Black Ops, T3 TW). Then I put on BW's. WOW what a difference. BUT I also think that the 8.50's tires keep you honest. I would not be surprised if the ground loops of CC's are a result of big tires without a lot of TW time. BW's are forgiving and you can get sideways with the BW's before realizing it's to late.

But to answer your question; I don't like a gear that droops. I need all the help I can get and tires that are basically vertical before I land makes sense to me.
 
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I'm guessing in 3000 airplane hours you weren't landing sideways. Don't start now and you'll do fine. If you do loop one? Damage happens. Deal with it.

Somebody mentioned Butch. I was hoping to see his new Acme gear but he had a tough end of season. It's fun to see Butch and Toby take off with motorcycles strapped to their gear. I presume that's what the big arm was for on the Acme gear in their video. I guess I'll see it next year. One more gear consideration. Get what works for YOU.
 
Follow Denny's advise, SLOW DOWN!
I'll bet the vast majority of landing incidents in CC aircraft are with pilots coming from far faster aircraft. Gear, tires might delay or even reduce the severity of damage but sooner or later you will be bitten. Carbon Cub, EX, FX they still land at 32mph or less.
 
Thanks for the responses all. I've done the research I feel needed and decided to go with the Acme Aero shocks and Beringer wheels & brakes.
 
Educate me on T3 vs. Acme Stinger please...was planning on the Stinger. Sales rep says stock TW is good which I believe, I just want anything to reduce shock to the fuselage.
 
What's going to stress your tailwheel? The best reason to have a tailwheel suspension would be to reduce tail spring rebound when you hit tail first. I doubt that'll be a problem for you, especially at first.
 
I just figured there were forces relayed up through the tailwheel to the fuselage from any use and I'm trying to minimize what is passed to the fuselage. If the stock TW is sufficient I'll stay with that. If there are advantages in the T3 or Stinger I'm all ears. 3 point landings will probably be what I do most.
 
Taxiing over rough terrain with a heavy load is tough on the tail section. Average ops on groomed strips aren't a problem. I have a slat wing Cub that can and does hit tail first with power on and slow and I can tell you the rebound with my Pawnee spring will get my attention. I'm not in a hurry to get a tail suspension. I'll take off the Baby Bushwheel and go back to the standard little tailwheel first. Loss of AOA is a problem with big tailwheels. Tail suspensions compound it. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Stewart covered it pretty well. They do protect you tail especially if you are doing a lot of tail first landings. But they do hurt your AOA. For starters just get a small tailwheel and stock springs. If you find a need down the road you can upgrade if the mission calls for it. I would expect you will need to re-arch you tail spring after a year or two do to too many hard tail first landings. Not a big deal it comes with learning. Do a search on tailwheel castor angle. A bit of thread drift but I saw a crack in the door, Learn to do a tail low wheel landing. It can be done just as slow as a 3 point and it is much better than a 3 point in most situations. Actually get good at all types, is the best advice.
DENNY
 
Simple seems better. I’d run a tail skid if the cub was easy to move and it didn’t tear up my strip. That said, the AOA can be adjusted on the acme along with several other angles. Flattening it and using a small tailwheel seems appealing for stol comps. They are race car guys and probably understand more about wheel set up than most.
 
..... Beringer wheels & brakes.
Just a heads up. This Beringer system is relatively new. It uses a floating brake disk within the wheel. Only time will tell us how well it stands up. In the past this sized general aviation wheel brakes were of the floating type. After a period of time the ones using a single floating disc became sloppy. They clattered in the wheel throwing retaining clips and sometime the brake pucks themselves. Even rendering the wheel unairworthy by expanding the rim of the wheel. The assemblies using multiple discs were more durable. Cleveland came up with the current very reliable fixed disc brakes which have been very successful for decades. By making the choice you have made, you are being the test case.

I have no knowledge of how the Beringers will stand up in the long run. Past experience is telling me to stand back and let someone else be the tester. Good luck with yours.
 
Just a heads up. This Beringer system is relatively new. It uses a floating brake disk within the wheel. Only time will tell us how well it stands up. In the past this sized general aviation wheel brakes were of the floating type. After a period of time the ones using a single floating disc became sloppy. They clattered in the wheel throwing retaining clips and sometime the brake pucks themselves. Even rendering the wheel unairworthy by expanding the rim of the wheel. The assemblies using multiple discs were more durable. Cleveland came up with the current very reliable fixed disc brakes which have been very successful for decades. By making the choice you have made, you are being the test case.

I have no knowledge of how the Beringers will stand up in the long run. Past experience is telling me to stand back and let someone else be the tester. Good luck with yours.

Coming from traditional disc brakes on cubs the berringers are a pain in the rear. They don’t seem to work that much better than Cleveland disc brakes.


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Thanks for the responses all. I've done the research I feel needed and decided to go with the Acme Aero shocks and Beringer wheels & brakes.

While i dont drive a Carbon Cub I do run an exp cub and replaced my Cleveland brakes and wheels with Beringer rims and brakes while swapping to Acme Black Ops at the same time. My experiance is simple, I feel there simply isnt a better wheel and brake system than the Berringer as they hold full WOT run ups and with the large diameter rotor deliver smooth reliable braking that simply isnt matched as no other system uses such a large diameter rotor.
My feelings on the Acme products are also simple and solid. They Acme soaks up rough terrian and dropping it in so well I can not see a reason to look no further as they do everything and more that i could ask for. One comment about big tires long gear and suspension is you must land without side loads. In other words land inline straight ahead and you will not break anyones gear/suspension. Like many folks I have to land on pavement as well as off airport. Because of the pavement I feel the scrubbing the tires would take with the Berringer ALG would cost more in tires than I am willing to endure. If I was 90% off pavement I would absolutly look at the ALG.
One more thing on Acme vs Shock Monster, the Acme will get you home even if you had seal failures as they would simplyy turn into a mech spring shock, the shock monster provides redudency by adding a second shock. This is at least what it appears to me, others with more Shock Monster experiance may chime in.
 
Coming from traditional disc brakes on cubs the berringers are a pain in the rear. They don’t seem to work that much better than Cleveland disc brakes.


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I can assure you on my plane there was/is no comparison Berringer all the way hands down everytime. Have you run Berringer 10" brakes?
 
So, if my Grove brakes and ABW wheels hold 240-ish HP twisting a CS prop at full power on 35s.... why should I change? Serious question.
 
I want to outfit my FX3 with the best and safest configuration for landings as this is where it seems the incidents occur.
You’re mistaken - most incidents occur when the pilot runs out of good judgement and skill before the plane comes to a safe stop. Them incidents have nothing to do with landing gear configuration, NONE.

I’m being told Beringer is the best
Not by anyone that knows anything.

it is pricey, but so is the cost of repair.
avgas is cheaper than beringer and the cost of repair.

I'm told the 3X3 design is from the 1940's and that FX3's are heavier and newer with the design essentially outdated and a better gear design is needed. Beringer appears to answer that call.
*sigh*

What is the recommendation for gear on a FX3 without cost being a factor?
Acme, AOSS or hydrasorbs - not necessarily in that order.

I am also planning on Beringer wheels and brakes as that does seem to be proven to be the best.
lol..only a few years in the making, not field-tested by the masses - that’s pretty far short of being proven the best. What’s proven is Cleveland wheels and brakes, standard and 3” extended gear, hydrasorbs and AOSS. Everything else is hype.
 
You’re mistaken - most incidents occur when the pilot runs out of good judgement and skill before the plane comes to a safe stop. Them incidents have nothing to do with landing gear configuration, NONE.


Not by anyone that knows anything.


avgas is cheaper than beringer and the cost of repair.


*sigh*


Acme, AOSS or hydrasorbs - not necessarily in that order.


lol..only a few years in the making, not field-tested by the masses - that’s pretty far short of being proven the best. What’s proven is Cleveland wheels and brakes, standard and 3” extended gear, hydrasorbs and AOSS. Everything else is hype.

Thanks. Original poster is listening to the sales persons selling them the new unproven stuff...best look at what is actually proven, in action


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When innovation stops we all lose. Slats, Keller flaps, big power, cool prop, G3X... I'm invested in new tech. God bless the innovators! Beringer may change the world. They may not. Either way I applaud the effort. Innovation requires courage and conviction. Two principles we need more of these days.
 
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