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Electronic ignitions?

S

scottsville

Registered User
Looking like I will need to replace my Mags soon. Any body running the electronic ignitions on there super cub? Thoughts? Brand? Performance?

Thank you!

Scott
 
I have been researching that a little lately too for my exp.. I would probably go with the P-Mag but it's too pricey for me right now. Haven't looked too hard at the others.
 
My engine is has been loosing power over the past year or so. Just really noticed it the other day! Lost about 100 rpms on climb out than I had been seeing. Its not swinging the prop to the rpms it should be. Just seems to be getting worse the more I fly it. the mags are Bendix and are 2010 models. Going to check timing soon and hope that is the problem. I have owned the SC for about 2 years and it just doesn't seem to have the power it should and seems to just be getting worse. bought it with 200 hours on a Penn Yan over haul. About 500 on it now.
 
scottsville said:
My engine is has been loosing power over the past year or so. Just really noticed it the other day! Lost about 100 rpms on climb out than I had been seeing. Its not swinging the prop to the rpms it should be. Just seems to be getting worse the more I fly it. the mags are Bendix and are 2010 models. Going to check timing soon and hope that is the problem. I have owned the SC for about 2 years and it just doesn't seem to have the power it should and seems to just be getting worse. bought it with 200 hours on a Penn Yan over haul. About 500 on it now.
Click to expand...

Flush carb first. May even need to blow back through main jet & reflush.




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Also if you have a sticky/leaking intake valve that will cut power to multiple cylinders. Also check for bent push rods.


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I have Elctroair in my exp cub. Replace one mag with electronic and kept one for redundancy.

I can tell you it starts in 1/2 a rotation hot or cold. Also put a MT prop on it at same time so take the performance gain with a grain of salt but it responds immediately to throttle commands. Fuel burn improved. If you can’t tell I love it. Can’t think of one negative thing about it.


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JeffP said:
I have Elctroair in my exp cub. Replace one mag with electronic and kept one for redundancy.

I can tell you it starts in 1/2 a rotation hot or cold. Also put a MT prop on it at same time so take the performance gain with a grain of salt but it responds immediately to throttle commands. Fuel burn improved. If you can’t tell I love it. Can’t think of one negative thing about it.


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Click to expand...


What MT prop did you put on it? Yes definitely going with electronic ignition if I change them.

Thanks
 
Get one with variable time or wait til SureFly gets it approved. The magic of EI is lost in the certified world.
 
The Electroair system is sweet but you do pay for it. I forget what the 4-cylinder system is with installation but a 6-cylinder runs about $8,500 in the Twin Cities area. It’s a great system, seems well-thought-our and has even impressed us grumpy mag devotees. It cut our demo 182’s fuel burn by about 1.8 gph and it it runs so smooth and starts so nice. Idles really slowly too, really nice for short strips and float operations. But, as SB mentioned, if you don’t have the variable timing you give up most of those benefits except your airplane will start better.

SureFly will be a great option once their electronic ignition has variable timing on it. It requires less modification to install and is cheaper than a mag. But, not sure when this will be done. I’ve been watching and waiting a while.

—Amy
 
Amy said:
The Electroair system is sweet but you do pay for it. I forget what the 4-cylinder system is with installation but a 6-cylinder runs about $8,500 in the Twin Cities area. It’s a great system, seems well-thought-our and has even impressed us grumpy mag devotees. It cut our demo 182’s fuel burn by about 1.8 gph and it it runs so smooth and starts so nice. Idles really slowly too, really nice for short strips and float operations. But, as SB mentioned, if you don’t have the variable timing you give up most of those benefits except your airplane will start better.

SureFly will be a great option once their electronic ignition has variable timing on it. It requires less modification to install and is cheaper than a mag. But, not sure when this will be done. I’ve been watching and waiting a while.

—Amy
Click to expand...


I talked with Surefly today. They are certified for the the cub.
 
This summer I helped a customer work through some issues with a Surefly in his 182, there was zero performance loss by switching back to fixed timing. Surefly's timing map is optimized for deep LOP cruise, you do not want advanced timing when you are trying to climb at altitude (best power mixture).
 
Amy said:
The Electroair system is sweet but you do pay for it. I forget what the 4-cylinder system is with installation but a 6-cylinder runs about $8,500 in the Twin Cities area. It’s a great system, seems well-thought-our and has even impressed us grumpy mag devotees. It cut our demo 182’s fuel burn by about 1.8 gph and it it runs so smooth and starts so nice. Idles really slowly too, really nice for short strips and float operations. But, as SB mentioned, if you don’t have the variable timing you give up most of those benefits except your airplane will start better.

SureFly will be a great option once their electronic ignition has variable timing on it. It requires less modification to install and is cheaper than a mag. But, not sure when this will be done. I’ve been watching and waiting a while.

—Amy
Click to expand...

The Electroair has a map sensor that is used to adjust/advance timing based on manifold pressure I believe. I can’t say enough about the ease of starting, it lights so fast you will jump in disbelief. Hot or cold this old IO engine just goes.


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stewartb said:
Get one with variable time or wait til SureFly gets it approved. The magic of EI is lost in the certified world.
Click to expand...
SureFly variable timing is now approved for the PA-18 (see the AML, changed Aug. 2019 - no note 4 for PA-18 ).

The factory rep on the phone confirmed this to me a couple of months ago. Variable timing is not approved if you have an auto-fuel STC. According to the rep, variable timing works fine with auto fuel, but they can't get FAA approval.

According to the rep, they key advantage for low and slow planes like the Cub is cost savings through eliminating the 500 hour inspections/overhauls. The current TBO is 2000 hours, they're working to get 4000 hours approved. Big engines start easier, but most Cubs (including mine) don't have start problems.

I just R&R a mag in the field, thinking installation of a SureFly would be too risky away from maintenance facilities. But the next time I have a mag problem, I'll likely install one. The rep suggested replacing the non-impulse coupling mag (right mag) to allow for hand propping.

https://05c30e68-e275-4bf5-a70e-c5f...d/f0684a_4cbd6dc928974869af24f4e57be946a0.pdf
 
Anyone here actually have time running a Surefly? I'd like to hear input on installation and operation.

Web
 
Last edited:
I have zero experience with the electronic ignitions being discussed here, but my airplane, equipped with an O-360 does have a LASAR ignition system installed. I didn't install it, so have no before and after comparison.

But, this ignition does increase cylinder head temperatures about 20 to 30 degrees, near as I can tell. With many installations, that's not a problem, but there are a lot of tightly cowled airplanes out there that might not like that.

Again, I don't know if this is the case with other EI's, but I've been told that if you advance the ignition timing, you'll make more heat.

MTV
 
wireweinie said:
Anyone here actually have time running a Surefly? I'd like to here input on installation and operation.

Web
Click to expand...

We ran initial tests for SureFly during the Cert process and never had a problem. Recently, we have run a number of engines in the test cells with both VVT and fixed timing SureFlys on certified and experimental engines. They are easy to install and work well.
Zero warranties. As CaseyO explained, the variable timing is of no consequence unless you are at altitude and in serious cruise mode. They do not make a measurable difference in HP at sea level.
I'm never over 5K' and rarely over 2k'. I run Slick mags on my Cub.
 
mvivion said:
I have zero experience with the electronic ignitions being discussed here, but my airplane, equipped with an O-360 does have a LASAR ignition system installed. I didn't install it, so have no before and after comparison.

But, this ignition does increase cylinder head temperatures about 20 to 30 degrees, near as I can tell. With many installations, that's not a problem, but there are a lot of tightly cowled airplanes out there that might not like that.

Again, I don't know if this is the case with other EI's, but I've been told that if you advance the ignition timing, you'll make more heat.

MTV
Click to expand...

The LASAR system is the only one I've had much experience with, also. If you read comments on the internet, you'd think that most everybody that used it had problems. I had good luck with them and had no major issues. Also, the only electronic system that you could hand prop with a dead battery. Not sure how far I'd trust a system that needed external power source to fire up (at least up here). I agree with the rise in CHT's. The factory says it's because the fuel/air charge burns more completely. Can't verify that. What I saw was an incredibly smooth idle for a small Lycoming. The best description I heard was 'no increase in power but a lot less throttle for typical speed'.

Not sure of an even comparison to something like the Surefly as the LASAR system replaces both mags.

Web
 
I don't know how many Pmag owners wire a panel switch but I can flip from 34* advance to 39* advance and I don't recognize any difference for the way I fly.
 
The installation is very straightforward. It does require an unswitched circuit from the battery so depending on the airplane there is a little labor involved in wiring.

To utilize the advanced timing feature it obviously requires a manifold pressure connection. That means on a cub you are going to loose one primer nozzle unless you add a boss to one of the induction tubes.
 
SJohnson- are you saying Surefly now has the electronic mag that has the timing advance that I can buy, right now, for my certified super cub? If so, I guess I would buy two of them and replace my slicks? I had the LASAR but when we went to a O360 we didn't put them on. I really did like the LASAR. At 2200 rpm I only burned 5 gpm and it started (I hand propped) very easily and did seem to run very smoothly. But they don't make parts any more for them. I was running the O320 160 hp then. Most of my flying was 3,500-8,500 msl.
 
CaseyO said:
The installation is very straightforward. It does require an unswitched circuit from the battery so depending on the airplane there is a little labor involved in wiring.

To utilize the advanced timing feature it obviously requires a manifold pressure connection. That means on a cub you are going to loose one primer nozzle unless you add a boss to one of the induction tubes.
Click to expand...
Use one of the fuel injector ports which are plugged on the top of the cylinder.
 
We have a “company” 150 we are overhauling and found one mag unserviceable. Installed an ElectroAir unit - “mag” install and timing was fast.
Took much longer to add a doubler on the firewall to mount the coil pack, and then mount the electronics box and supplied pressure sensor inside the firewall.

Complete kit as shipped was very well done, and we have high expectations. As above all reports are good.

Will be a awhile to finish up the panel and aircraft refurbish, but if you have to change a mag anyhow....


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skywagon8a said:
Use one of the fuel injector ports which are plugged on the top of the cylinder.
Click to expand...
Good call if you have them, I have only seen OEM's use the primer port. Of the two 4-cyl Lycomings in the shop right now one has them, one doesn't.
a2029693dcf33874d547416b695ad826.jpg
 
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