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Thread: EDO 1650 on a PA11

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    39-J3's Avatar
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    EDO 1650 on a PA11

    EDO 1650 on a PA11?

    How’s the performance? Would I be able to get a field approval? I might have a lead on a nice set. Would these be worth pursuing or should I just keep looking for a set that are certified for my 11?

    Thanks.
    Larry.

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    Larry, Just come buy my damn 1320's so I can afford to rebuild the motor for my new 11.
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    supercrow's Avatar
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    Hi Larry. I think getting the 1650's on your 11 legally would be a serious hassle. More importantly, I think you will find them to be a little to much without more horsepower. Even the 1500 Aqua's (which are a great float) take performance away compared to other floats. The 1650's would surely float the little 11 right up there, but getting them off the water and carrying them around would be the bigger issue. Either the 1320 or 1400's are the way to go. The 1400's offer a little more stability but the rear strut needs to be shortened to get the proper angle. (easy job). Best all around performance with the least added weight are the 1320's, hands down on a stock 11. You will hear the argument about 1320's in the wind. I have flown them and turned them in considerable winds; you just have to handle the airplane properly. My opinions anyway. Nothing like float flying in a cub. Reid
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    supercrow's Avatar
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    Any new date for the Bowman Field STOL competition. If it ends up in October I may be off floats by then.
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    39-J3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Douten View Post
    Larry, Just come buy my damn 1320's so I can afford to rebuild the motor for my new 11.
    Douten. I just sent you a text message about your floats.

    Larry.

  6. #6
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    To answer your field approval question go directly to the Portland FSDO and ask. You will quickly get your answer yes, no or maybe. If the answer is maybe, get all the details before you spend a dime. If the answer is yes get the signed 337 before you buy the floats. Remember a field approval should be acquired prior to making the modification not after you have done the work.

    I have a little experience with 1650s which is not favorable to what you propose, not that it wouldn't work.

    EDO certified the 1650s on the PA-18-150. I flew it, it was a dog with two people on board. It took a long time to get on the step when compared to 2000s. In the air it was just fine. Not favorably impressed.

    I flew a stock Cessna 150 on 1650s solo with low fuel in the tanks on a river with smooth water. It was decent with good handling characteristics. This particular one had it's engine changed to 150 hp because 100 was just not enough.

    A friend built an Acy-Ducy with an O-200 which he and I put on a new set of 1650s with PA-18 rigging. They may have been the last set of 1650s built? It did OK but had trouble staying on the step while accelerating in rough water. It would get up on the step, then when on the other side of the wave it would fall off the step only having to start over. After he lengthened the wings and installed a O-320 it was able to power through the rough water to take off. Only then with the extra power was it OK.

    The issue with the 1650s appears to be the length of the flat area ahead of the step prior to the where curve up to the bow begins. 1650s are identical to 2000s and 2130s except for the length of the section ahead of the step. This same characteristic exists on the 2440 floats. Generally the airplanes with the 2440s have more horsepower which powers the floats through the rough spots.

    I haven't compared the 1650s with the 1320s or 1400s. It would be interesting to place a straight edge and a tape measure on the keels to find the difference in the length of the flat section. As a guess the 1320s may be longer?

    When Cessna approved the 150 as a seaplane they were expecting to sell a lot of them for seaplane training flight schools. When it turned out to be an under powered dog, the sales project flopped. EDO had built 100 sets of 1650s in preparation for the large sales volume. To sell these extra floats EDO inserted a plug ahead of the step turning the 1650s into 2000s. I have a set of these 1650/2000s on my Cub. They are placarded 89A-2000. Normal 2000s are 89-2000.

    A possible improvement would be to place a down turned spray rail on the chine starting at the step forward. This will trap some of the water under the float increasing the lift. The V bottom shape pushes the water up sideways away from under the float. The spray rail holds the water underneath boosting the float upward force away from the displacement drag. This was a common alteration years ago in Maine.
    N1PA
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    39-J3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercrow View Post
    Any new date for the Bowman Field STOL competition. If it ends up in October I may be off floats by then.
    Hi Reid.

    Thanks for the response on the floats. Just trying to learn all I can to make sure I end up with the best set up possible.

    As far a Bowman STOL. It will be in October but we do not have the date set yet.

    Larry.
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  8. #8
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I can tell you from experience. Portland fsdo will tell your no. Hell they will tell you no before you even ask!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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    JP's Avatar
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    After experiencing the new PK2050Rs on the CC-SS 180, I have seen the future of float flying courtesy of the Grand Potato Man. Meanwhile, all these years later (10?) I still have a half finished set of 1320s on hand. Probably ought to get cracking on them.
    JP Russell--The Cub Therapist
    1947 PA-11 Cub Special
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  10. #10
    mvivion's Avatar
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    The other thing I'd be concerned with is the weight of the 1650s, compared to 1320s. Not much useful load in any case with an 11 on floats, no point in making it worse than necessary.

    I used to own a 90 hp J-3 with most of the 11 mods, and it spent summers on 1320s. It did just fine on those floats. As noted above, you have to do some of that "Float pilot ****" from time to time, because they are a little bit underfloated, but they'll carry a load and perform well.

    MTV
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