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Thread: 709 Rides?

  1. #1

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    709 Rides?

    No, I am not getting one. Yes, I am starting to wonder about them.

    Observation 1 : Who gets one seems arbitrary. One guy scraped a Cub wingtip and got one. Another guy almost totalled a Cub on landing in calm winds and did not get one.

    Observation 2: What purpose do they serve? I am looking at a friend who is getting a 709 ride for slightly busting a Class B segment. No question that he busted it, but according to him the ride is being scheduled for an unrelated incident ten minutes earlier when he was maneuvering legally under a Class B shelf. Is it punishment?

    Observation 3: Apparently there was some remark to the effect that the ride is not because of his age. Stating that, if indeed it was stated, would indicate to me that they are looking for excuses to give 709 rides to older pilots.

    Observation 4: This is not the first Class B excursion - a friend who now is an ASI told me they have three a day! If a minor Class B excursion calls for a 709 ride, there would be an average of three a day in our local area. Not sure they have the personnel for that, and anyway, two of my acquaintances had a Class B excursion last month, resulting in a bunch of forms and a gentle "please be more careful."
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  2. #2
    Penguin's Avatar
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    Bob, this vid (audio) is entertaining:

    https://youtu.be/mUSUXnr4dSo
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  3. #3
    fobjob's Avatar
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    My understanding was that the ride was primarily intended to be a check on the pilots instruction/ instructors....

  4. #4
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Observation 5: Mr FAA inspector is getting cabin fever, wishes to go flying in an airplane which he doesn't usually have the opportunity to fly in.
    N1PA
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  5. #5
    nanook's Avatar
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    Or you have pissed off one of the FAA guys’ buddies. We used to get a lot of that good ole boy stuff...
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  6. #6
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I had to do a 709 ride back in 2002 after my mid-air. I remember the head of the maintenance side of the FSDO who was a good friend was pissed and tried to intervene where I didn't have to take it but he was over ruled from above. He claimed they were gonna railroad me which it turns out later they did. I schedule it at Alliance airport in the morning. About a 75 mile flight. My airplane was a pile of debris so I brrowed a friends 1998 Husky A1A. Fog didn't lift at the destination airport so went to another airport close by and hung out with some friends till it lifted. Called the ops guy and flew in when the ceilings lifted. I got there and he had a maintenace guy go through the logbooks and inspect the airplane. Airplane was 4 years old with about 400 hrs. He shook the wings and the was a creaking noise. I identified the noise as coming from the jury strut bolt at the lift strut and said I can fix it with two 3/8" wrenches. He said "nope, this aircraft is unairworthy." It took everything I had to not lose my ****. I bit my tongue and told him I guess I needed to get a ferry permit so I could fly it home and fix it. To say I was pissed was an understatement. I flew home, tightened the nut and bolt and then decided and one go one step more and put a longer shanked bolt in. Caled the OPs guy back and flew back over. Inspector shook the wing and we took off.

    They were claiming that I overtook and RV6 in my PA16 so I had to prove I could see an avoid traffic. The plan was to take off from Alliance, head north and land at Denton and return. I would transition about 5 miles west of Northwest regional. Since I wasn't going far and everyone was landing to the south with left traffic I climbed to pattern altitude, tuned in Northwest Regional and looked for traffic. As soon as I got abeam Northwest Regional he said I had failed the ride and to go back to Alliance. I asked how and he said I was at pattern altitude for Northwest Regional. I explained they were landing to the south, using left traffic, that I was on their frequency and looking for traffic. He said it didn't matter, I had failed. I was deviststed. I figured that meant they would pull my ticket. When I asked what now he said I could reschedule. Rescheduled the next day, took off and climbed to 500 feet above pattern altitude, landed Denton, then at Alliance and all was good till the lawyers called again for the next round of harrassment that when on for 5 years when they finally dropped their enforcement action.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  7. #7
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I have a friend that was in his mid 80s and was doing Aerobatics in his clipped winged Cub. Landing at dusk on his grass runway when he overshot the center line, cranked it around and caught a wing tip and cart wheeled it. The old military harnesses served him well and all that he did as destroy his airplane and bite his unlit cigar in half. Problem was his neighbors called 911 so the FAA got involved. The FAA wante him to do a 709 ride. They wanted him to come over to the Lubbock International in his 175. He was scared to death they were going to pull his ticket. He told him that his accident was in a Cub and he wanted to do the 709 ride in a Cub. He lives on an airpark and the morning of the check ride his wife mde a huge breakfast for the FAA examiner. They went up and flew and he killed it, no problems. The inspector asked if he could fly the Cub nd get recurrent so my buddy got out and he flew it for 30 minutes or so.

    Several years later my friend got a call from one of his neighbors who told him to walk outside in front of his hangar. He went out to find two FAA guys with a Citabria up on its nose. One of them was the examinr that had given him the check ride. My buddy walked up to him while looking at the Citabria up on it's nose and asked him when he wanted to schedule his 709 ride. I would give anything to have been there for that one.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  8. #8

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    The actual rides, at least in taildraggers, seem to be non- events, except for Steve's, above. The check airmen are polite, love taildraggers, and thank God do not scrutinize the weight & balance (we do carefully prepare them).

    A question: since they are required to do the ride in an aircraft similar to the one involved, will they do it in an experimental?
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  9. #9
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I have been on both ends of 709 rides.....

    Got a call one evening from the Chief of the local FSDO. He asked if I'd be willing to administer a 709 ride for a gent who'd wrecked his seaplane. I pointed out that I was not an FAA employee. He said not required, any CFI can be approved to administer.

    Turned out there was some bad blood between this fellow and the FSDO. I have no idea what that was all about, but the FSDO Chief wanted to make the 709 ride as "independent" as possible.

    I flew with the guy, and it was a non event. Subsequently, I did a couple others for them.

    My ride was after a ground loop with a student, which I contend was caused by a non vented brake locking up a wheel on a SC. Of course, this happened on a Saturday, and FAA let the maintenance facility that set up the brakes store the plane inside over the weekend, till they could look at it. Brake was free on Monday.

    They asked who was PIC, and I said I was. So, I got the ride. The Inspector who administered that ride was a high time C-46 driver, and very experienced pilot. He spent a lot of the time apologizing for having me do this. I pointed out to him that he taught me a few things, so life was good.

    So, at least in my experience, these things have been a result of an unfortunate incident, but the rides themselves were no big deal.

    MTV

  10. #10
    gbflyer's Avatar
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    I know a fella who got one after an off airport taxiing incident. The only reason he got it was because he refused to surrender his full logbook to the FAA, just gave them copies of currency and proper endorsements. They didn’t like that too much. In the end the ride was a non-event that took :15 minutes. Inspector said he’d have done the same thing.
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  11. #11

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    Can't get feds out of office to do any check rides here.

  12. #12

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    I did it when it was 609!
    Tim
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  13. #13

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    If it were me, I would insist that the FAA pilot have a Covid test with results. Especially if they are doing three a day.

    Anybody know for sure whether you can present an experimental aircraft for the ride?

  14. #14
    scubber's Avatar
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    Since we are on "Check Rides" . it took 9 mos before they could come up with someone to do a "Med Check Ride" in the Super Cub. About as basic a plane as there is. Kept trying to get me rent a different type aircraft (non tail wheel). Said if it was a Citation they could have it done in a few weeks. They ended up flying a guy in from Boston, Mass to Buffalo, NY. But, then he wouldn't fly out of our 1,400' farm strip. Had to pick him up at a 3,000' strip.
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  15. #15
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I had to do a demonstration of ability for no useful vision in my left eye. The FAA drug their feet for months becaue no one was tailwheel current. I finally figured out that I was the PIC and they didn't need to be current. They agreed and I did the flight. Then he want to critique me crabbing into the cross wind vs dropping a wing. I told him I could do either one but was willing to see him demonstrate. He declined.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  16. #16
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I had to do a demonstration of ability for no useful vision in my left eye. The FAA drug their feet for months becaue no one was tailwheel current. I finally figured out that I was the PIC and they didn't need to be current. They agreed and I did the flight. Then he want to critique me crabbing into the cross wind vs dropping a wing. I told him I could do either one but was willing to see him demonstrate. He declined.
    Nicely played......

    MTV
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  17. #17

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    Off topic.. A number of years ago the Bombardier Global Express fleet had a rash of aircraft that drug wing tips during crosswind landings due to it's double swept wing and poor technique. So, they started emphasizing crabbing all the way down and kicking the nose straight while maintaining wings level. The first time I attended training after this change, I was in the right seat while one of our more talented Captains was flying and the sim instructor set the big crosswind up for him. Every time he kicked it straight without applying opposite aileron, we’d drift off the centerline. Well, he kept zapping us out to try again, and the tension continued to rise between the instructor and the Pilot flying, as he couldn’t obtain the result the instructor wanted and argued you couldn’t stop the drift without applying at least some opposite aileron. I finally suggested the instructor demonstrate for us, and he jumped in the left seat and made 3 landings that resulted in us almost exiting the side of the runway each time. That was the last we heard about crosswind landings that week......
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  18. #18

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    I had a very experienced ex-Air Force first officer demonstrate the "kick-out maneuver to me in an old 737-100. It was not pretty! I have never tried it.

    We have had the same experience with tailwheel examiners. There are only four. I met one - truly a nice guy. I was told the ride was perfunctory.

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