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Thread: Worst Loan experience ever

  1. #1

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    Worst Loan experience ever

    Well...Went through AOPA for a loan on a Super Cub and they put me in touch with Mike Jacobs......worst experience ever!!!! He does an evaluation on planes and apparently owns the bank as well. He has cost me 2 cubs because he has appraised them so low. I decided to switch planes and look at the C180/185....same thing!!!! He obviously knows nothing about plane values. Just want folks to be aware, from what AOPA has said....he has a reputation.

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    SJ's Avatar
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    Is Mike a certified aircraft appraiser? (if there is such a thing) I have need to get a bona-find appriasal done on some airplanes and wondered what the best way to do this was.

    Sorry about your bad experience. We've experienced the same things both selling and buying homes - sometimes it works in your advantage. I assume the sellers were not willing to sell for what this person decided the planes were worth?

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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  3. #3
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Super Cubs are hard for an appraiser to value in my opinion because of all the modifications that cost big bucks. I have worked with some apprailers that listened to reason and realize the addition of certain mods adds conciderable value to the aircraft over what their book says.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  4. #4
    39-J3's Avatar
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    I Have also had a bad experience with getting a loan through AOPA. When we talked with him he was pretty full of himself and told us right off how long he has been doing this and he knew everthing there was to know about planes. He also said they do not like to lend for antique tube and cloth airplanes,,, WHAT....WHAT???? When we told him we were trying to buy a PA11, he argued with us stating there was not such plane ever built. I told him I guess he doesn't know everything there is to know after all and we took our busienss elswhere. Oh and I did end up with a nice 1947 Piper PA11.

    Larry.
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  5. #5

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    The worst experience with loans is having to pay them back.

    Doesn’t your regular bank make airplane/equipment/automobile loans? My conservative bank didn’t, so I went to a very small, progressive, non-national, town bank in the boonies that was enthusiastically seeking new business. They were absolutely fantastic. They were especially delighted that I never missed a payment on any of the 3 loans-one for the Beaver, one for the floats, and one to build my first PA12.

    Unfortunately they were bought out by a large national bank and that was the end of that.
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  6. #6

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    https://www.airloan.com/
    they do lots of aircraft loans
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    https://www.airloan.com/
    they do lots of aircraft loans
    Sounds like a good business venture Chuck. Rebuilding cubs then toting the note. Easy terms, no money down. I’ll help in the repossessions. What could go wrong?
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Sounds like a good business venture Chuck. Rebuilding cubs then toting the note. Easy terms, no money down. I’ll help in the repossessions. What could go wrong?
    Wish I had the money to finance my own projects let alone other people’s but I’m in if you do 90% I’ll get the last 10

  9. #9
    Amy's Avatar
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    I’ll second Airloan, and will also mention that Airfleet Capital may be worth a call. Ask for Danielle at Airloan (it’s a division of Red River State Bank).

    If you have a local bank or credit union, you may be able to do better there under a toy loan or similar. A credit union like Wings Financial might be an option for you, and they offer much better rates. They will have higher down payment requirements.

    As far as appraisers, it can run the gamut. There are certified aircraft appraisers who can assist with valuations for financing, but the certified ones are required to see an airplane in person to appraise it. Book valuations don’t count (and while they work well for a lot of airplanes, they struggle with airplanes like Cubs, 180s, 185s, etc.). Cubs can be difficult because you need someone who understands that segment of the market, and the range from bottom end to top end is wide. Keep in mind that if your bank or bank appraiser doesn’t give you a valuation that jives with the airplane’s market value, you can get a second opinion. I’ve helped customers get approved for $20-$40k more than their bank initially approved by educating them on the market and actual costs to equip an airplane like the one the buyer was looking to purchase.

    Good luck!

    —Amy
    Proud owner of a collection of airplane pieces (sometimes in one big piece) known as the Oklahoma Kid.
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  10. #10
    Amy's Avatar
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    You can find an appraiser here: http://www.appraiseaplane.biz
    Proud owner of a collection of airplane pieces (sometimes in one big piece) known as the Oklahoma Kid.
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  11. #11

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    It’s been my experience that the bigger the advertisement for anything from attorneys to plumbers, the less competent they are. Word of mouth referrals are the best endorsement.

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    Yep!!! Been my exact experience. Every Cub I sent he way under valued it...I decided to switch and start looking ay the 180/185. Right off the bat he told me the the 180/185 owners think their planes are made of Gold. Your experience has been spot on with what I am dealing with
    Quote Originally Posted by 39-J3 View Post
    I Have also had a bad experience with getting a loan through AOPA. When we talked with him he was pretty full of himself and told us right off how long he has been doing this and he knew everthing there was to know about planes. He also said they do not like to lend for antique tube and cloth airplanes,,, WHAT....WHAT???? When we told him we were trying to buy a PA11, he argued with us stating there was not such plane ever built. I told him I guess he doesn't know everything there is to know after all and we took our busienss elswhere. Oh and I did end up with a nice 1947 Piper PA11.

    Larry.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    The worst experience with loans is having to pay them back.

    Doesn’t your regular bank make airplane/equipment/automobile loans? My conservative bank didn’t, so I went to a very small, progressive, non-national, town bank in the boonies that was enthusiastically seeking new business. They were absolutely fantastic. They were especially delighted that I never missed a payment on any of the 3 loans-one for the Beaver, one for the floats, and one to build my first PA12

    Unfortunately they were bought out by a large national bank and that was the end of that.
    I bank with USAA and they unfortunately do not do aircraft loans. I may try to look around at some other places. Its been frustrating because Im all approved and I can't get him to value any planes for close to what they are selling for

  14. #14
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    It’s been my experience that the bigger the advertisement for anything from attorneys to plumbers, the less competent they are. Word of mouth referrals are the best endorsement.
    I don’t even have a sign on my door.....


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  15. #15

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    [QUOTE=SJ;780485]Is Mike a certified aircraft appraiser? (if there is such a thing) I have need to get a bona-find appriasal done on some airplanes and wondered what the best way to do this was.

    Sorry about your bad experience. We've experienced the same things both selling and buying homes - sometimes it works in your advantage. I assume the sellers were not willing to sell for what this person decided the planes were worth?

    Not sure if he is or not. He owns the bank I think and he is an aircraft owner himself. I talked to AOPA and they have had similar complaints on him. They said if I was buying a Mooney then he probably wouldn't even put a value on it because that's what he has.
    Hopefully ill get something worked out

  16. #16
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Worst Loan experience ever

    .......

  17. #17

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    Can't speak from any sort of experience, but for the appraisal side, you might try Alaska Aircraft Sales (Gene Zerkel's old outfit). I know they do appraisals, although have never used them for appraisal. They must have valued a few consigned Pipers and 180/185's pretty high based on my few inquiries on pricing.
    Back In Alaska
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  18. #18
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I ran out of options when trying to buy my Cub. One of my good friend called to ask me when I was getting my new Cub. I had to tell him I asked all over but no luck getting money. He said "you never asked me" I was happy to give him 5% on money he had in the bank getting 1.5%. worked out great and I made my last payment 2 weeks ago. Why pay interest to a stranger when you can give it to a friend. Thanks Buddy

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  19. #19

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    The president or owner, whatever he is of Red River State Bank is was an aircraft owner less than two years ago and I believe one of his airplanes at the time was a Supercub. Half the Fees of AOPA Better interest rate at the time
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  20. #20
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnjoe View Post
    The president or owner, whatever he is of Red River State Bank is was an aircraft owner less than two years ago and I believe one of his airplanes at the time was a Supercub. Half the Fees of AOPA Better interest rate at the time
    Red River was one of the very first advertisers on SuperCub.Org. I think they are a great choice even though they no longer support the site!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    Red River was one of the very first advertisers on SuperCub.Org. I think they are a great choice even though they no longer support the site!

    sj
    Danielle at Red River has been great.

    Used them twice. No complaints.


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  22. #22

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    The owner of Red River is a supercub owner, Daniel (is who you talk with there) and her husband are friends of mine and great people to work with several of my customers have used them to finance planes they are purchasing from me. She will do the appraisal her self and knows Cubs well so you shouldn’t get some lowball number.

  23. #23
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I have used my local bank for several airplanes over the past 25 years. Nice to be in a small town and a good local bank. Will be better when the Super Cub is paid for which is coming up quick.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  24. #24
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    Same here, but not for airplanes, cranes. Local credit union, and I use my property as collateral, and they can't give me the money fast enough. They could care less where the loaned money is going.
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  25. #25
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    Red River was one of the very first advertisers on SuperCub.Org. I think they are a great choice even though they no longer support the site!

    sj
    I echo what MTV and SJ say. Red River has been a long time supporter of the MN Pilots Assn.

    Randy
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  26. #26
    Wag2+2's Avatar
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    I think lenders like to reduce their risk whenever possible, especially larger lenders. One way of doing that is to start with a lower value so more equity goes in up front. Smaller lenders/banks are more character based and accommodating.

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    The banks position is a worse case scenario..
    Suppose they lend $100K on a Cub and the engine spins a bearing
    Now you want another $30K to fix the engine and ole Mikes in a bind..airplane aint worth much that wont fly but even with anew engine the airplane wont bring $130K and then ya break your leg
    Name of the game is “equity”
    Was on a bank board of directors for 13 years...sorry


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  28. #28

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    I did take everyones advise and went with RedRiver Bank.....Highly recommend and very accommodating ......needless to say, I have my loan and now I just need to find the right Cub (seems easier said than done)
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  29. #29
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tailpilot View Post
    I did take everyones advise and went with RedRiver Bank.....Highly recommend and very accommodating ......needless to say, I have my loan and now I just need to find the right Cub (seems easier said than done)
    Also once again an advertising supporter of SuperCub.Org! I'm just waiting on their new banner. I'm glad to have them back as they are an excellent resource, and they fly Super Cubs!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    Also once again an advertising supporter of SuperCub.Org! I'm just waiting on their new banner. I'm glad to have them back as they are an excellent resource, and they fly Super Cubs!

    sj

    Exactly....Lesson learned for me........when I need advice I need to come here and just ask!!!!!!

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    cubdrvr's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I have used my local bank for several airplanes over the past 25 years. Nice to be in a small town and a good local bank. Will be better when the Super Cub is paid for which is coming up quick.
    Pierce has it right !
    Develop a relationship with your local banker. It will pay great dividends over the years. Why spend good money out of
    town? It's not like aircraft insurance where one needs to do that.
    I flew my banker, found him an airplane, hunt with him, etc. He has helped me out immensely over the years. Even buys lunch
    Big banks do that? Or care about you other than profits?
    "Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar"

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdrvr View Post
    Pierce has it right !
    Develop a relationship with your local banker. It will pay great dividends over the years. Why spend good money out of
    town? It's not like aircraft insurance where one needs to do that.
    I flew my banker, found him an airplane, hunt with him, etc. He has helped me out immensely over the years. Even buys lunch
    Big banks do that? Or care about you other than profits?
    I agree 100% Unfortunately I dont really have a local bank......I use USAA, its a military bank that does not have any branches around. I probably need to get a local bank just for things like this.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdrvr View Post
    Pierce has it right !
    Develop a relationship with your local banker. It will pay great dividends over the years. Why spend good money out of
    town? It's not like aircraft insurance where one needs to do that.
    I flew my banker, found him an airplane, hunt with him, etc. He has helped me out immensely over the years. Even buys lunch
    Big banks do that? Or care about you other than profits?
    My small town banker loaned my partner and I money on a business then worked part time in the evenings for us for several years. He said he liked the extra under the table cash we paid him. In reality, I think he was insuring we didn’t fail......would a big bank do that?!
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  34. #34
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    My small town banker loaned my partner and I money on a business then worked part time in the evenings for us for several years. He said he liked the extra under the table cash we paid him. In reality, I think he was insuring we didn’t fail......would a big bank do that?!
    He has a good outlet for that stuff y'all are printing.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    He has a good outlet for that stuff y'all are printing.
    The American dream. Turn $1s into $10s Pretty amazing in this day and age, we can nearly 3D print an entire car but it’s still impossible to perfectly counterfeit paper money.
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