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New Cub Driver... reflecting on 14hr trip home. Heel brakes??!!

First time using heel brakes is like the first time you had sex. Awkward at first but after awhile you realize that the controls were in the right location the whole time ;-)

Glenn
 
AIRCRAFT INFO

Manufacture:pIPER
Model1953/2007 PA-18 SUPERCUB 160HP WIDEBODY
TTSN-3575 HOURS
SMOH-55 HOURS OVERHAULED BY LYCON
SPOH-NEW PROP TBD
ANNUAL INSPECTION DUE NOV 2009

AVIONICS INFO
GARMIN 250XL GPS/Com
SIGTRONICS INTERCOM
NARCO AT150 MODE C TRANSPONDER

FEATURES


COMPLETE RESTORATION FINISHED NOVEMBER 2007
160HP O-320 B2B ENGINE UPGRADE
EMPTY WEIGHT 1180 lbs ON 26" TUNDRAS (price does not include 26" tires)
GROSS STANDARD 1750 lbs
NEW PROP WITH SALE(BUYER'S CHOICE)
NEW AIRFRAMES INC 4" WIDEBODY STC'D FUSELAGE
NEW DAKOTA CUB WINGS
WELD ON FLOAT FITTINGS
EXTENSIVE NEW PARTS LIST INSTALLED
ALL NEW CONTROL SURFACES AND CABLES
3" EXTENDED LANDING GEAR
800X6 TIRES (26" GOODYEARS or 31" BUSHWHEELS UPGRADED TIRES AVAILABLE)
CLEVELAND WHEELS AND BRAKES
NORTH RIVER BRAKE BOOSTERS
STEVE'S AIRCRAFT GASCOLATOR
INTERAV 50AMP ALTERNATOR
SKYTEC LIGHTWEIGHT STARTER
24 GAL. DAKOTA CUB LR FUEL TANKS
DAKOTA CUB AIRCRAFT HIGH VIS SIGHT GAUGES
HEAVY DUTY F.ATLEE DODGE FRONT AND REAR HEADER TANKS
UNIVAIR FUEL VALVE
F. ATLEE DODGE RIGHT LONG STEP
F. ATLEE DODGE LEFT FUEL STEP
NEW MUFFLER AND EXHAUST SYSTEM
E.I. DIGITAL VOLTMETER
3' METAL BELLY AT TAIL
HOOKER HARNESS SEAT BELTS
REAR MOUNT OIL COOLER
LIGHTWEIGHT UNDERSEAT BATTERY
REAR UNDERSEAT STORAGE
INTERIOR: GRAY HAMMERTONE POWDERCOAT FINISH WITH BLUE/BLACK SEATS
EXTERIOR FABRIC: STITS POLYFIBER FABRIC STC SYSTEM COVERED 2007
EXTERIOR FINISH: RANDATHANE INSIGNIA WHITE AND BAHAMA BLUE STRIPES
 
If you didn’t fall in love with it in the first 30 minutes, I’m not sure there’s anything we can do for you- and yes, heel brakes are awful- my advice would be to donate this sorry excuse for an airplane to some delusional soul who thinks they’re content with 74 mph... Try to forget about this dark time in your life and look for a real airplane- I hear Cirrus owners love their planes; you might give those a look...

I love my Super Cub. I use my Cirrus when I want to go somewhere else. The Cirrus is the best all around single engine GA travel machine IMHO, but it is more for "missions" than having fun. When I want to fly for the joy of flight, I think about my yellow plane.

Anyway, Txagfisher, it sounds like you got off a long, hot flight. You are grumpy and uncomfortable in your new plane. Give it a rest, take it out on a cool morning and do 15 landings in the pattern. Your brake issues are fixable. Sounds to me like you have air in your lines. Get the lines bled by someone who knows how to do it before you go up again. Unless you don't have the same pilot genes the rest of us do, you'll be happy with your new plane.
 
Steve, you're the man. What does that mean for me though aside from figuring out how to properly bleed them? Will those suffice or would I be better off with a Steve's kit?

If it matters, bleeder valves are mounted up, lines go in the bottom.
 
I guess I will throw in my to cents. Flew my 90 hp sc from Mississippi to New Hampshire last august. It took 2 days 16 hours total flight time. Got to know the bird by the time I got home. 85 ias and sometimes 65 ground speed. Nice country while going slow. I did have Dakota cub high pressure masters installed and now have great pressure to hold the 29' abw.
 
Any length of flight can seem endless if the seat is awry. I did a 15 hr seemingly endless SC flight from Phoenix to montana in a cub whose seat had original cover on it and had a verticle back rest, but at least the seat wouldn't slide on the rails and my 6'3" self could hardly bend enough to get to the brakes. Fixing and lubing the rails and reclining the seat about 7 degrees made all the difference in the world, and it made the brakes easier to get to as well
 
EV
If you ever venture a bit North you will understand why a good cub pilot has good brakes!!! If you are a 1,000 foot runway pilot get a 1000 ft runway plane. If you want to work short get a cub.
DENNY
 
So just to add on to my point. Brakes are as important as any other control and even more than some when on the ground! Once the tail cannot handle the load it is the brakes the control the plane. If you have ever tried to taxi a 170 Cessna with the tail alone you will understand. IT IS A CONTROL, USE AS MUCH AND OFFEN AS NEEDED!!! I have seen people wreck aircraft because they had been trained not to use the brakes!!! So to say a cub or any aircraft should not need to brakes is total BS!!!!
DENNY
 
Well you don’t really need rudder pedals in a tail dragger. [emoji849]

Maybe you don’t need brakes when going from manicured 7,000ft grass to manicured 6,000ft grass runways.


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Ordered the Steve's kit this morning and the NAS bolts SP recommended. Appreciate all the replies. Looking forward to learning how to fly this dang thing the way I want to be able to. After all, if I can't get it into places the 180 wouldn't go, whats the point!?
 
No middle ground here? I recently graduated to API tailwheels and no longer need brakes to taxi. And I cannot tell you how many times I have come home with only one brake. In the olden days, brakes were an option - and they really don't work on skis or floats.

Yes, I need them for 150 foot stops if the wind is below ten knots.
 
I'm currently getting my instrument rating in a 172 and hating the guy who invented toe brakes.

Also trying to pin a 172 tail on landing after so many SuperCub hours is not working well.
 
Stock Cub brake cylinder diaphragms - the flat rubber discs pushed by the brake pedal that move fluid and create pressure - can stretch over time. New ones can be stiffer and offer better performance. Without boosters and when topping off with fluid pull the brake pedal back then fill to top, cap, and release the pedal. Test this first at slow taxi to make sure the system isn't over pressured and brakes too tight. I have no experience with boosters but see them with big tires.

Gary

I Totally agree on the effectiveness of pulling the brake pedal back when filling and only letting them go when the cap is tight down, this alone makes a BIG difference in braking performance.

My starboard diaphragm failed and I made a replacement using Viton rubber sheet. This improved the braking so much, I also did the same on the serviceable port side


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
AIRCRAFT INFO

Manufacture:pIPER
Model1953/2007 PA-18 SUPERCUB 160HP WIDEBODY
TTSN-3575 HOURS
SMOH-55 HOURS OVERHAULED BY LYCON
SPOH-NEW PROP TBD
ANNUAL INSPECTION DUE NOV 2009

AVIONICS INFO
GARMIN 250XL GPS/Com
SIGTRONICS INTERCOM
NARCO AT150 MODE C TRANSPONDER

FEATURES


COMPLETE RESTORATION FINISHED NOVEMBER 2007
160HP O-320 B2B ENGINE UPGRADE
EMPTY WEIGHT 1180 lbs ON 26" TUNDRAS (price does not include 26" tires)
GROSS STANDARD 1750 lbs
NEW PROP WITH SALE(BUYER'S CHOICE)
NEW AIRFRAMES INC 4" WIDEBODY STC'D FUSELAGE
NEW DAKOTA CUB WINGS
WELD ON FLOAT FITTINGS
EXTENSIVE NEW PARTS LIST INSTALLED
ALL NEW CONTROL SURFACES AND CABLES
3" EXTENDED LANDING GEAR
800X6 TIRES (26" GOODYEARS or 31" BUSHWHEELS UPGRADED TIRES AVAILABLE)
CLEVELAND WHEELS AND BRAKES
NORTH RIVER BRAKE BOOSTERS
STEVE'S AIRCRAFT GASCOLATOR
INTERAV 50AMP ALTERNATOR
SKYTEC LIGHTWEIGHT STARTER
24 GAL. DAKOTA CUB LR FUEL TANKS
DAKOTA CUB AIRCRAFT HIGH VIS SIGHT GAUGES
HEAVY DUTY F.ATLEE DODGE FRONT AND REAR HEADER TANKS
UNIVAIR FUEL VALVE
F. ATLEE DODGE RIGHT LONG STEP
F. ATLEE DODGE LEFT FUEL STEP
NEW MUFFLER AND EXHAUST SYSTEM
E.I. DIGITAL VOLTMETER
3' METAL BELLY AT TAIL
HOOKER HARNESS SEAT BELTS
REAR MOUNT OIL COOLER
LIGHTWEIGHT UNDERSEAT BATTERY
REAR UNDERSEAT STORAGE
INTERIOR: GRAY HAMMERTONE POWDERCOAT FINISH WITH BLUE/BLACK SEATS
EXTERIOR FABRIC: STITS POLYFIBER FABRIC STC SYSTEM COVERED 2007
EXTERIOR FINISH: RANDATHANE INSIGNIA WHITE AND BAHAMA BLUE STRIPES

Wow!!! BIG spec [emoji41]


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No middle ground here? I recently graduated to API tailwheels and no longer need brakes to taxi. And I cannot tell you how many times I have come home with only one brake. In the olden days, brakes were an option - and they really don't work on skis or floats.

Yes, I need them for 150 foot stops if the wind is below ten knots.

+1 for the effectiveness of API [emoji1303]


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I have two airplanes one with toe and the other with heel brakes. At first I hated the heel brakes and wondered how anyone would put up with them. A few flights later and they seemed normal. Both work just fine unless broken or something. Give them a chance.
 
Brakes, and for me heel brakes especially, can get unexpectedly jammed forward in a sudden stop. The legs tend to maintain momentum, get heavy, and push on the brakes when not needed. I learned this the hard way once in a Cub and it cost me a prop.

Gary
 
I find that very thin-soled shoes, like minimalist hikers, help a lot with the rudder and brakes. They won’t make your Cub any faster, but having more sensitivity in your feet might make you hate the brakes less.
 
I find that very thin-soled shoes, like minimalist hikers, help a lot with the rudder and brakes. They won’t make your Cub any faster, but having more sensitivity in your feet might make you hate the brakes less.
Agreed, that’s what I wear when flying in the warmer months. Better feel and subtle control inputs I think.
 
I find that very thin-soled shoes, like minimalist hikers, help a lot with the rudder and brakes. They won’t make your Cub any faster, but having more sensitivity in your feet might make you hate the brakes less.

I fly both toe and heel brakes. Given it takes more time to instinctively know where the heel brakes are and how to use them and the rudder pedals at the same time, I completely second this. I usually fly in Vans skateboard shoes/boots as the soles are tough but also thin enough to allow the pedals and their precise positions to be felt. I’ve also flown a Pitts S-1 and Cubs in heavier winter boots, but only when I’ve learned where the pedals are and can find them “blind”

On the previous post about inadvertently braking harder in a more sudden stop, I can imagine the physics of this is true, but particularly with the standard Cub/PA-12 brakes I’d be surprised if the brakes alone could generate enough stopping power in the 3 point attitude to generate such a forward body shift, particularly if the lap belt is tight enough, but in a wheeler, or hitting an unexpected obstacle “off airport” a sudden nose down attitude could well cause heavy legs, so again, a snug lap belt should be your friend [emoji41]




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I fly both toe and heel brakes. Given it takes more time to instinctively know where the heel brakes are and how to use them and the rudder pedals at the same time, I completely second this. I usually fly in Vans skateboard shoes/boots as the soles are tough but also thin enough to allow the pedals and their precise positions to be felt. I’ve also flown a Pitts S-1 and Cubs in heavier winter boots, but only when I’ve learned where the pedals are and can find them “blind”

On the previous post about inadvertently braking harder in a more sudden stop, I can imagine the physics of this is true, but particularly with the standard Cub/PA-12 brakes I’d be surprised if the brakes alone could generate enough stopping power in the 3 point attitude to generate such a forward body shift, particularly if the lap belt is tight enough, but in a wheeler, or hitting an unexpected obstacle “off airport” a sudden nose down attitude could well cause heavy legs, so again, a snug lap belt should be your friend [emoji41]




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And sometimes the shoes are co-ordinated with the plane [emoji849]

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Oh boy. Down the footwear road again. Calling Glenn, where’s the bunny boots?


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Well I’m sure Glenn and Denny and... will chime in. But there’s some heel brake threads..... Toe brakes vs Heel brakes
https://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53829


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That’s a good thread and well worth reading by the OP [emoji1303] I’ve added a comment about the importance of properly positioned toe brakes [emoji849]

Thanks for putting it up Farmboy [emoji1303]


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