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Thread: I expect more from pilots. Take your trash home.

  1. #1
    skukum12's Avatar
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    I expect more from pilots. Take your trash home.

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ID:	50031I was up the Knik river today and found this mess at one of the heavily used strips. Somebody decided to set up a shooting range complete with bench, paper target stand and several sets of swinging steel targets.

    Let it be known that I shoot, hunt, fish, fly etc as well. However, this setup is on land that it seems every couple of years we need to legally defend access to. The environmentalists want to ban all forms of motorized transportation in the Knik River Valley. This shooting range has already being used by someone who doesn't fly out what they fly in. As you can see in the above photos, it's already turning into a s$!t hole.

    There was a time, up to this spring, that a pilot could fly up there and not see a single solitary gum wrapper, cig butt or discarded freeze dried bag. But now, since STOL has become the new sport of Kings, the littering has been on the rise. In fact, a couple years ago, I attended an impromptu fly in at the Picnic Table strip and one of the wives was tossing used diapers on the ground.

    This is not funny in the least. I expect more out of pilots and the people they transport. Pack out what you pack in so everyone can enjoy the experience.

    Oh, by the way, what's with the $5 bucks in the photo? When I popped the lid off of the spray can, somebody left the fiver inside. Thanks for the gallon of avgas.

    Joe
    "Always looking up"
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  2. #2
    Grant's Avatar
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    First - Thank you for posting this. If people are not called out for stuff like this then the natural entropy becomes acceptance of this behavior. It takes time, but before you know it it'll be just like the country road that everyone uses to dump their old washing machines.....

    ---------------------

    This is sad - what an asshat to be so lazy. How hard is it to pick up after yourself? I think the same thing for the smokers who find no shame in tossing out a cigarette butt on the highway. Maybe thats what it is.... Lack of shame.....they had no parents who would kick the $h!t out of them when they did something stupid. Public shaming works. maybe they are a member here and will read this. I'm sure there is a you tube video of the event somewhere..... Probably titled "I'm a wannabe professional pilot and hunting guide who moonlights as a litterbug"
    Last edited by Grant; 07-16-2020 at 06:06 AM.
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  3. #3
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    Thanks for your posts, totally agree.

    This last week I had the privilege of flying with Bill Rusk in SE AK, staying in Forest Service cabins. This is the 3rd time I have been up there, spending several days each year. One of the tenets of backpacking (back when I did that sort of thing) was "pack it in, pack it out". Bill routinely finds a lot of junk in the cabins and he takes on the thankless task of loading up whatever he can and hauling it out in his cub.

    This year was particularly bad at some of the cabins. It is very common to find half filled bottles of pancake syrup, cooking oil, old batteries...pretty disgusting. This time we found golf clubs and a broken fishing rod, a broken battery powered lantern in one cabin.

    Bill usually fills up a float bay with junk that he takes out, this time we filled that and then some.

    We can do better than this. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention!

    Randy
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  4. #4
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Leave the pancake syrup and food that won't go bad!! People sometimes get stuck, and that might be their little pleasure
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Leave the pancake syrup and food that won't go bad!! People sometimes get stuck, and that might be their little pleasure
    Agreed with this one. While I am a huge proponent of taking out trash and perishable items, I think that leaving a few day’s worth of non-perishable items in public use cabins is totally appropriate (and responsible, even). Not a small number of adventurous souls have had best laid plans go awry and have been helped by fire and food left secured in public use cabins.
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  6. #6
    S2D's Avatar
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    If you ever look around a walmart parking lot, you'll see what people have become. Too lazy to push their shopping cart 20 yds to put it away.
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
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  7. #7
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Agreed with this one. While I am a huge proponent of taking out trash and perishable items, I think that leaving a few day’s worth of non-perishable items in public use cabins is totally appropriate (and responsible, even). Not a small number of adventurous souls have had best laid plans go awry and have been helped by fire and food left secured in public use cabins.
    Yes, but be VERY selective what you leave. Most folks under “normal” circumstances won’t trust food left in a remote cabin, so stuff often stays there forever. Yes, it may help someone in a bind, but make certain it is indeed NOT perishable. I can’t tell you how much garbage left by well meaning cabin users I’ve hauled back to town.

    MTV
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  8. #8
    WindOnHisNose's Avatar
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    What Mike said goes for me, too. Sure, I understand the thought that leaving non-perishable items could be a help to the next person who finds themselves there unexpectedly. The problem is that it is really difficult to specify exactly what might be helpful to leave. I am sticking with the approach of leaving the cabin as we find it. Clean. Stocked with some split firewood (for those cabins with wood burning stoves).

    The latter point is important, too. We found ourselves often flying into cabin and it was cold outside, rainy and it was a joy to walk into a cabin in which the floor had been swept, it was clean and there was enough split firewood to build a fire without having to go outside in the cold and rain and cut wood! We always left the cabin after doing a check to make sure we had all of our things, that the floor was swept and clean and that there was some firewood split and ready to go in the cabin.

    Pack it in, pack it out.

    rsc
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  9. #9
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    A long time ago I worked out of cabins in Alaska when lucky. Typically there would be a sealed wooden box somewhere in the rafters or inaccessible to large ground pounders or small vermin that said: "Survival gear don't use unless emergency" and a date. We opened up one and there was some canned food, tools/utensils, dry fire making material, and first aid supplies. It rained or snowed enough and bottled water wasn't invented yet. Anything edible or smelly was removed at the end of the field season. Fall or spring hunters used those camps and would leave things they shouldn't. Burned and buried garbage in a pit really isn't gone and wildlife love to dig them up. Pack it out.

    Gary
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Yes, but be VERY selective what you leave. Most folks under “normal” circumstances won’t trust food left in a remote cabin, so stuff often stays there forever. Yes, it may help someone in a bind, but make certain it is indeed NOT perishable. I can’t tell you how much garbage left by well meaning cabin users I’ve hauled back to town.

    MTV
    Fair point - and a half-used bottle of syrup might not fit the bill. I'm thinking things like a few cans of beans/soup, maybe a few packages of dried pasta or freeze-dried foods. I'm certainly not advocating leaving a place trashed or arguing that one is helping a person in need when in reality they're just being lazy with their leftover food. But a few dried or canned goods can be a godsend when things go sideways. And dry firewood, as was pointed out above.
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  11. #11
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    It's a good idea to not leave anything in those cabins that has been opened or has any residue on the outside of a sealed container. If bears catch a whiff of that they'll destroy a cabin trying to get to it.
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  12. #12

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    To the original post, the various strips up / on the Knik used to be (and to be fair still are) distinguishable from the other nearby areas (can we say James Flowing Water) that were more readily accessible by other (i.e. ATV/UTV/hoppedup PU) means.

    I hope that more is expected and realized from pilots...the OP is correct, continued motorized access (particularly without being restricted to a certain spot) up the Knik has been and will be under attack. At that point, the general public tends to lump discarded cigarette butts and ammo boxes with junked cars and old refrigerators.....let's not get to that point.
    Back In Alaska
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  13. #13
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    You should see what the feral animals from NYC do in the Adirondack Mountain. This is the first time I’ve Been down here in decades for a summer. Here to report the animals have just gotten worse. That said, when I’m home in Seldovia and you drive out to the end of the roads there is trash all over the place also. I don’t understand what is in these peoples heads.
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  14. #14
    skukum12's Avatar
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    This strip is definitely fly in only. Now yes, I have seen snowmobile tracks in the area. However, judging by the time of the year and the freshness of the trash, snow go operators were not the culprits. South end of the gorge near the beaver pond.
    "Always looking up"

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    To some people, the wilderness is just a convenient to play with their motorized toys. Aircraft included. Some famous YouTube pilots included.

    They do not respect it in the way many of us do. When bad behavior is witnessed it needs to be rudely pointed out.
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  16. #16
    Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tennessee View Post
    to some people, the wilderness is just a convenient to play with their motorized toys. Aircraft included. Some famous youtube pilots included.

    They do not respect it in the way many of us do. When bad behavior is witnessed it needs to be rudely pointed out.

    completely agree
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by skukum12 View Post
    This strip is definitely fly in only. Now yes, I have seen snowmobile tracks in the area. However, judging by the time of the year and the freshness of the trash, snow go operators were not the culprits. South end of the gorge near the beaver pond.
    ...and that's the scary part (in addition to being disappointed in pilots): should the State/Feds/Corps/MSB/public get in an uproar, motorized access would be targeted, not just the ATV's and hopped up P/U's at Jim Creek but motorized access in the watershed, including aerial access to the various strips. It's pretty special to be able to fly 10 minutes (Ok, with a slow -12, fifteen minutes) from Los Anchorage and land on a glacial river. Hope it doesn't get screwed up.
    Back In Alaska
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  18. #18
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    Slightly right of topic, but in the same borough: I flew out to Z40 one day from Lake Hood to do some hit and runs (they eventually became touch and goes). Two guys had a target up on the approach end (towards the east) off to one side a bit, and a bench to shoot from at mid field. I landed and taxied up to them and turned around to go back and depart. They looked at me with expressions of "what the hell are you doing????"

    I returned the look.

    You know, sometimes, I hate this planet.
    Last edited by moneyburner; 07-25-2020 at 03:09 AM.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

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    Landed at a popular fishing spot last Wednesday. A super cub had parked in the middle of the landing area(a two rut road) and set up his tent in front of the cub. Plenty of off strip areas to camp/park, but some people don’t think. He moved after he was informed, but still infringed on the landing area(his nose stuck out into the road). I just shook my head.
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  20. #20
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesf View Post
    Landed at a popular fishing spot last Wednesday. A super cub had parked in the middle of the landing area(a two rut road) and set up his tent in front of the cub. Plenty of off strip areas to camp/park, but some people don’t think. He moved after he was informed, but still infringed on the landing area(his nose stuck out into the road). I just shook my head.
    Thats called a “strategy” in some parts.

    MTV
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  21. #21
    cubflier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Thats called a “strategy” in some parts.

    MTV
    Thats called being a "deckhead" in other parts.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!
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  22. #22
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    There once was a Game Warden in McGrath AK that discovered the spawning grounds of Sheefish in the nearby Big River. We (F&G Bios) spent about 10 days via plane and raft going around and around looking for them due to local rumors (fly float fish repeat). Finally we got to a gravel bar with logs spaced about 3-400' apart perpendicular to the river. The rest of the bar was clean. Come to find out that's where the Sheefish were holed up before spawning. Only a light Cub could land between the sticks. That's called strategy as MTV notes.

    Gary

  23. #23
    courierguy's Avatar
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    This beach LZ had a big fire pit dug, and it was left full of beer cans and bottles, with one bottle (Bud Light) stuck in the sand outside the pit.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    This beach LZ had a big fire pit dug, and it was left full of beer cans and bottles....
    Eco-friendly camping, circa 1950-- "bury your trash"
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  25. #25
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubflier View Post
    Thats called being a "deckhead" in other parts.

    Jerry
    Oh, There are many "more descriptive" terms for this behavior. I was just trying to be polite....

    There's actually quite a history of blocking landing sites in Alaska, particularly on the Alaska Peninsula.....but also in the interior.

    MTV
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by moneyburner View Post
    Slightly right of topic, but in the same borough: I flew out to Z40 one day from Lake Hood to do some hit and runs (they eventually became touch and goes). Two guys had a target up on the approach end (towards the east) off to one side a bit, and a bench to shoot from at mid field. I landed and taxied up to them and turned around to go back and depart. They looked at me with expressions of "what the hell are you doing????"

    I returned the look.

    You know, sometimes, I hate this planet.
    Z40 - last time I went over there for some practice landings, I noticed a vehicle driving down the runway from west to east....I went around. After I came back and performed my touch and go, I saw the vehicle just off the side of the runway's east end, and a purple haired woman performing enthusiastic fellatio on the vehicle driver, outside, standing next to the inlet. Crazy.
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  27. #27
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have noticed you flying around either.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  28. #28
    scout88305's Avatar
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    Just back from AK. I did see lots of trash everywhere. In Hope the fishing line and discarded leaky waders and beer cans line the creek. Not that many tourists this year. The residents get fingered on this one. Any remote camping area we could get a 2 wheel van to had toilet paper and **** everywhere. I wish we could shoot these fukrs.https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Tr...571686261.html
    Thank a sheepdog today for they are standing guard!
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  29. #29
    akavidflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scout88305 View Post
    Just back from AK. I did see lots of trash everywhere. In Hope the fishing line and discarded leaky waders and beer cans line the creek. Not that many tourists this year. The residents get fingered on this one. Any remote camping area we could get a 2 wheel van to had toilet paper and **** everywhere. I wish we could shoot these fukrs.https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Tr...571686261.html

    Residents of AK that is, probably not Hope. It was mind boggling the amount of trash that was left all over the peninsula from the dip netters. While we might have a few unsavory residents, most were from outside our community that were absolutely trashing the place. The mind set of these people just blow me away. Rest assured that the local residents are absolutely pissed about the way our community is treated every summer from the Los Anchorage and Valley crowd. One only need to look at the trooper dispatch to see who is committing the violations and who has absolutely no respect for the environment or resources.

    I took a friend and her kids out for a ride that were up from Florida. After a stop to stretch the legs and have something to eat I noticed the teens tossing the drink packets and trash on the ground and I lost it. They were more worried about not having cell service than taking in the surrounding beauty and respecting it. Needless to say, they picked up their trash and some other junk I pointed out to them that had been left by others.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by scout88305 View Post
    Just back from AK. I did see lots of trash everywhere. In Hope the fishing line and discarded leaky waders and beer cans line the creek. Not that many tourists this year. The residents get fingered on this one. Any remote camping area we could get a 2 wheel van to had toilet paper and **** everywhere. I wish we could shoot these fukrs.https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Tr...571686261.html
    Not to be ....something, "location-ist?....but as the other post says, this is probably not the local residents. Likely visitors from Los Anchorage or the Meth-Su. Even after 5+ decades of living in Southcentral AK, it is astonishing (and sickening) how the masses from the population centers tend to trash the areas that have easily-accessible F&G resources. Hope, the Kenai in spots, Fish Creek to a lesser degree, roadside at Chitina, the ATV-trail running to / by my cabin , etc all get blasted with Say Hi, It's Tuesday during the fish openers and, for the cabin, hunting season. I was raised that both the real outback as well as the road accessible stuff (i.e. Hope, Kenai, etc) were to be kept free of my trash and impact.
    Back In Alaska
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  31. #31
    scout88305's Avatar
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    Another bad location is Goose Bay airstrip across the inlet from Anchorage. I went there last year. Used needles, bongs, trash, glass, rolls of carpet, tons of empty casings from weapon fire. Not even supposed to shoot there. Furniture and car bodies pushed over cliff into ocean. I'd never camp there. Sketchy folks after hours.
    Thank a sheepdog today for they are standing guard!
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  32. #32
    scout88305's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa12drvr View Post
    Not to be ....something, "location-ist?....but as the other post says, this is probably not the local residents. Likely visitors from Los Anchorage or the Meth-Su. Even after 5+ decades of living in Southcentral AK, it is astonishing (and sickening) how the masses from the population centers tend to trash the areas that have easily-accessible F&G resources. Hope, the Kenai in spots, Fish Creek to a lesser degree, roadside at Chitina, the ATV-trail running to / by my cabin , etc all get blasted with Say Hi, It's Tuesday during the fish openers and, for the cabin, hunting season. I was raised that both the real outback as well as the road accessible stuff (i.e. Hope, Kenai, etc) were to be kept free of my trash and impact.
    Hope residents, and other off the beaten path communities like McCarthy or Manley Hot Springs are proud of their quaint settlements. I honestly don't know how they manage the pressure. Hope largely gets through summer with community volunteer help. Agree its city folk not locals.
    Thank a sheepdog today for they are standing guard!
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  33. #33
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    . . . . huh . . .purple hair . . . .

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