Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Wheel skis - experimental

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like

    Wheel skis - experimental

    What retractable wheel skis are people using that perform well? Ive gotten reports on the glh3000’s that they do well knowing that no whee ski will perform like a straight ski. Are there any experimental options out there?
    Thanks Airguide thanked for this post

  2. #2
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    10,399
    Post Thanks / Like
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  3. #3
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    10,399
    Post Thanks / Like
    Earle will fill you in. He started on barrel staves and has tried everything else.

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 07-11-2020 at 10:25 PM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Likes TurboBeaver liked this post

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Minot, ME
    Posts
    99
    Post Thanks / Like
    Love my Datums. Tons of floatation. Same ski for 2000 or 2500s. difference is just solid or hollow hardware. Listen to his recommendation on tire size and brand. Not a lot of extra room. He has some really specific measurements he has you take for the adapters. None of it is rocket science.
    Likes courierguy liked this post

  5. #5
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,251
    Post Thanks / Like
    Only retractable skis I’ve ever used that honestly performed as well as or better than straight skis were the Rossi-Fernandez 8001 skis. Not cheap, but they work. They are designed to work with 8.50 x 6 tires. And it’s when you get into really deep snow that makes the difference.

    MTV

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wolf Lake, AK
    Posts
    5,791
    Post Thanks / Like
    Snow is only part of it. How they perform on wheels is also important. Ground clearance is everything if you fly on unpaved surfaces in spring. If that doesn't matter for your flying? Trick Air and Summits are worth a look. I've been a Fluidyne fan for 20 years on my 180. My surroundings have changed. If I do skis for the Wildcat they'll likely be one of the new breed of penetration skis.

  7. #7
    Scouter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Exeter Maine
    Posts
    2,007
    Post Thanks / Like
    What plane are you flying? I have had excellent results with Summit 2500. Deep snow to slushy conditions the wrk great on these lighter tailreaggers. They only weigh 20 lbs a sideI have flown in Jason's cub on Datums, the work great as well and it's a really simple design
    jim
    Thanks Toro thanked for this post

  8. #8
    courierguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    1,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Snow is only part of it. How they perform on wheels is also important. Ground clearance is everything if you fly on unpaved surfaces in spring. If that doesn't matter for your flying? Trick Air and Summits are worth a look. I've been a Fluidyne fan for 20 years on my 180. My surroundings have changed. If I do skis for the Wildcat they'll likely be one of the new breed of penetration skis.
    I have a picture somewhere of my Datum's on a gravel bar, but can't seem to find it. It was kind of a bad idea as the bar was a bit soft, and I thought I was really beating up the plastic on the bottoms, but once home a close inspection showed no damage, not even any scraps. I've gotten them pretty muddy also. The penetration wheel skis I've seen don't seem to offer that type of off pavement, not to mention off airport, capability. The pic is one of my favorites from last winter, landing near a ski equipped porta potty, I didn't need to use it, but just couldn't pass up the photo op.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200222_141955389~2.jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	66.1 KB 
ID:	50855  
    Likes motosix, tedwaltman1 liked this post

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Plane is a 4 place cub. Estimated 1300 empty 2300 gross. Moving towards the 2500 datums. Thought about the 3000s for the larger tire and flotation but looks like more ski than needed.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,233
    Post Thanks / Like
    I run 2500B FEDERAL'S on my cub with extended plastic. Heavy but they float great and tough as nails. One thing that I see being a problem with hydraulic wheel skis is the brake caliper setup. Many of the skis where designed with a flat back caliper (1 1/4 axle style) A lot of planes have upgraded to 1 1/2 axle and that pesky nipple on the back of the caliper gets in the way. Grove 1/ 1/2 caliper are flat backed like the 1 1/4 so if you have a issue that will save a lot of cutting and grinding. Bottom line is check what brake the ski was made for because they are not all the same!!!
    DENNY

  11. #11
    courierguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    1,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    With the Datums, I am limited to a single caliper brake setup, due to the needed clearance when the tire drops though the ski (actually the ski comes up.) This is not a big deal as my plane lands so slow anyway.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    67.8N,115.1W CYCO Canada
    Posts
    934
    Post Thanks / Like
    I like my Datum 2500's. It takes a little fine-tuning, but you can get plenty of ground clearance. Had to turn the Cleveland brakes 90-degrees so there would be no interference with the bleed nipple. Super easy changeover - floats to skis (doing the swap today!). They have proven to be reliable. And no pumping!

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Great info. I will also be running the beringer 6” wheel and ive heard it works great with that setup.

  14. #14
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northern Maine
    Posts
    839
    Post Thanks / Like
    Couple of notes on Datums, first of all you CAN install double puck Cleavelands by reindexing the torque plate holes. Folks get
    mixed up about ground clearance thinking
    a bigger tire is always better, however most
    manufacturing on penetration skis are very
    cautious of having much of the tire sticking
    down thru the bottom of the ski as it destroys the skis performance......... From what I have observed looking at Summits they appear to have very limited clearance on 8:50s to enhance their ski mode performance. I have 3.5" at the heel of my Datums. So you can't automatically assume bigger tire is always more clearance. And as far as AOA is concerned
    when the tire is up ontop of the Datum skis it will have more than most because of the amount it rises up to get onto it's pedistal.
    Combined with 3" gear the Datums make a great combination for sure. For extreme snow conditions; 6" gear will net you 27"
    of prop clearance with an 84" Catto, on 6:00x6 tires. And with
    A thrustline kit installed, your crankshaft should be right at 70" on those tires. So for
    comparison sake: a Cub on standard gear with 31" Bushwheels is normally around 66/67" according to what tail spring and tire your using. The Datum skis are the best "wheel skis option" out there, especially considering the only options start at $25,000 ! You fly em and you'll
    buy em. This picture shows correct placement for doublepucks and actual clearance.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5eo5tzmin...38457.jpg?dl=0

    Sent from my moto e5 go using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 11-09-2020 at 06:41 AM.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like

    AWB 2500 on PA-12

    Hi Earle, Parker and I are installing AWB 2500 wheel skis on the PA-12. Wondering if you have any experience or thoughts on this setup.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    I ran AWB 2500’s with a 26 bush wheels for many years, great spring bear setup, little heavy but great ground clearance.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  17. #17
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,251
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Airguide View Post
    I ran AWB 2500’s with a 26 bush wheels for many years, great spring bear setup, little heavy but great ground clearance.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    A number of sets of those AWB 2500s were modified by FWS (and probably others) in Alaska by lengthening the rigger arms to provide clearance for the old Goodyear 25 inch Airwheels on our Cubs.

    I had a set of those on my 170 for years. They work ok, but as noted above, they are heavy.

    I believe the AWB 2500 A wheel skis had longer rigger arms from the factory, and were legal on 8.50s in factory configuration....

    MTV
    Thanks Kent Sorensen thanked for this post

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    I had a field approval for 26 inch bush wheels! Like I said it was a great setup!


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Thanks Kent Sorensen thanked for this post

  19. #19
    TurboBeaver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northern Maine
    Posts
    839
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi Kent,
    We used them for years as well and like Mike says they are heavy, but they are very rugged . Too be honest especially on a 12, I prefer taller gear , 3" is great on Cubs but with the wider fuselage of the 12 and lesser AOI , I would certainly run 6" gear with any ski set up. You will notice the AWB
    will dive into spring snow when you get them into sidehilling , more than other skis.
    The Flilites are much better in funky snow but almost cost prohibited.......
    I am running new 6" HD Javron gear this winter, even with the little 6:00x6 tires I have more AOA then you can imagine.
    The utility of those AWB to be able land at airport for fuel then go play in fresh snow is certainly the ultimate set up. Are you hand pumping them??? Wish you were closer so you could fly this Cub on the Datums.......... Gosh it's getting to be a long time ago, that we fish spotted Kent...... Whiskers are getting pretty white on this end.
    Bet Airguide could tell you better than me on AWBs. Like MTV: I also really liked Fernandez's skis, great performance but not better than the Datums. Kent, Mike Meekins ( 907-745-1626) up at Gunsight, runs the plastic way over on the tails towards the wheel side in a widget, it would give them alot more floatation??? I would visit with him also. He is VERY knowledgeable on wheelskis
    Good luck olde friend.
    E

    Sent from my moto e5 go using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Last edited by TurboBeaver; 11-10-2020 at 03:29 AM.

  20. #20
    Penguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    KNFL
    Posts
    111
    Post Thanks / Like
    Earle - awesome to chat with you. I really appreciate your time.

    Has anyone had any luck getting a Field Approval for Summit skis? Glenn - were you working on something like this at some point? Being certified and on pavement I'm boxed into the penetration ski corner. I'd sure like to go with Summit if I could make it happen. Any advise? Local FSDO is Reno.

  21. #21
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    11,251
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
    Earle - awesome to chat with you. I really appreciate your time.

    Has anyone had any luck getting a Field Approval for Summit skis? Glenn - were you working on something like this at some point? Being certified and on pavement I'm boxed into the penetration ski corner. I'd sure like to go with Summit if I could make it happen. Any advise? Local FSDO is Reno.
    There are several "legacy" retractable wheel skis that may be approved on your plane, depending on what model it is.

    AWB 2500s, LHD 3000s, C-2200 or C3200s, FlyLite 3000s, etc,

    MTV

  22. #22
    C130jake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    413
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have summits on my CCEX and we put Trickairs on our certified PA12 last winter. 3ft of snow is the deepest they have been in and worked great.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

  23. #23
    Penguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    KNFL
    Posts
    111
    Post Thanks / Like
    Trickair is my first choice, but are proving to be a challenge to get. The Summit skis are lighter. I'd put the work in on a FA if I could get a pair.

  24. #24
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    10,399
    Post Thanks / Like
    The only one to get a FA on Summits is Mark on his Pa11. He gave us copy's of his paperwork but 3 different IAs have not gotten any results. We have 4 SC flying over here on Summits, one 12 on Datums that was on Trickairs. I had Summits on my 100hp Cub but switched to Datums that perform better for my setup

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  25. #25
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    In the woods
    Posts
    762
    Post Thanks / Like
    I've noticed this too, emailed them several times and called with no answer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
    Trickair is my first choice, but are proving to be a challenge to get. The Summit skis are lighter. I'd put the work in on a FA if I could get a pair.

  26. #26
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    The only one to get a FA on Summits is Mark on his Pa11. He gave us copy's of his paperwork but 3 different IAs have not gotten any results. We have 4 SC flying over here on Summits, one 12 on Datums that was on Trickairs. I had Summits on my 100hp Cub but switched to Datums that perform better for my setup

    Glenn
    I got a few before they told me no


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  27. #27
    Penguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    KNFL
    Posts
    111
    Post Thanks / Like
    To be clear, the folks at Trickair got back to me right away. I’m looking for a pre-owned pair so needed to buy the pedestals & STC. No problem at all.

  28. #28
    courierguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    1,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am re-doing my Datum tail ski rigging, after getting a T-3 spring. I did a quick search here hoping to see some examples as to how a tail ski is rigged (limit cables/etc.) but didn't come up with anything. So I am doing my own thing and I will post some pics when done. Then you guys can tell me how I should have done it!

    That reminds me: I am giving away a J-3 tail spring, just pay US Mail postage and I'll send it to the first responder. Bought from Spruce, the standard 3 leaf.
    Last edited by courierguy; 11-24-2020 at 10:43 PM.
    Likes TurboBeaver liked this post

  29. #29
    courierguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    1,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    The J-3 tail spring is gone!

  30. #30
    Penguin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    KNFL
    Posts
    111
    Post Thanks / Like
    Just polling the crowd here. I am making some (positive?) progress on a FA for Summits on my 18-150. Mark's 337 is incredibly helpful, but is for the LSA size ski whereas I'd be looking for a FA on the 2300's. Before I push forward collecting a bit more data from folks, is there anyone that happens to know anyone with a 337 for 2300's? My IA and DER are willing to look at whatever they can get their hands on.

Similar Threads

  1. 35” wheel options - experimental
    By vj88 in forum Experimental Cubs
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 01-22-2020, 03:02 PM
  2. WHEEL SKIS
    By lorne heise in forum Modifications
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-11-2004, 02:49 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •