Supercub Tail Feathers

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gstrampher

MEMBER

Hunters, WA

• Jul 10, 2020

• #1

I am getting a set of PA-18 tail feathers ready for my PA-12. I bought an extra PA-12 parts plane with supposed Supercub tail feathers, but my PA-18 elevators won't fit on the horizontal stabalizers that came with the parts plane. The parts plane was a floatplane, did they call for something bigger on the tail section? Could someone give me the dimensions of their Supercub tail feathers? Especially the hinge pin distances.
Thank you, George

 

mike mcs repair

Registered User

chugiak AK

• Jul 10, 2020

• #2

Search drawings at http://www.supercubproject.com top left is link

You probably have unbalanced 12 ones that were converted to balanced by cutting and welding


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

 

Last edited: Jul 10, 2020

P

Paul Heinrich

PARTNER

Illinois & Wisconsin

• Jul 10, 2020

• #3

Or some tripacer tail feathers have been passed off as SC tail feathers.

 

G

gstrampher

MEMBER

Hunters, WA

• Jul 10, 2020

• #4

Thanks, I'm thinking PA-22 feathers or I read in another thread that the PA-18-90hp had smaller tail feathers. So I guess the guy that sold them to me might have been right about them being Supercub tail feathers...

 

Steve Pierce

BENEFACTOR

Graham, TX

• Jul 11, 2020

• #5

J3, PA11, PA12, PA16 and PA18-90 all had the same unbaanced tail feathers. PA20 and PA22 balanced tail feathers are about 8-10" shorter each side than PA18 balanced tail feathers.

 

Colorguns

PATRON

Bloomfield NY

• Jul 11, 2020

• #6

Can I use 20-22 balanced on a -12 for 150hp upgrade or do I have to use -18 tail?

 

Farmboy

MEMBER

Middlebury, VT

• Jul 11, 2020

• #7

Doug means....legally. For a Friend. Really.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

 

algonquin

MEMBER

Seldovia,Ak

• Jul 11, 2020

• #8

Doug there was a thread on here about that and how effective the PA22 tail vs the PA18. If I remember right someone said it didn’t make much difference . I bought the Sullivan STC for a 18 tail, never saw a STC for the 22. There is also a STC for squared off controls from Sullivan but after you pay for the STC he won’t give you the drawings or measurements, sends you to Dodge who sell them. Kind of a underhanded deal, lowered my opinion of Mr. Sullivan.

 

D

dgapilot

FRIEND

• Jul 12, 2020

• #9

I used to fly a 150 hp PA-12 with stock tail feathers. Elevator was a little heavy but not uncomfortable. I don’t remember what STC was used for the engine installation.


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Hardtailjohn

Registered User

Marion, MT

• Jul 12, 2020

• #10

Here's the size difference between PA-18 and PA-22 tail feathers. Not my picture, but stolen from faceplant.

 

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G

gstrampher

MEMBER

Hunters, WA

• Jul 13, 2020

• #11

Wow, That looks like about 12 inches difference
.

 

skywagon8a

MEMBER

SE Mass MA6

• Jul 14, 2020

• #12

Colorguns said:

Can I use 20-22 balanced on a -12 for 150hp upgrade or do I have to use -18 tail?

Click to expand...

Hardtailjohn said:

Here's the size difference between PA-18 and PA-22 tail feathers. Not my picture, but stolen from faceplant.
View attachment 49970

Click to expand...

Before you entertain the idea of using a -22 tail on a -12 or -18, consider this by Raoul Hoffman in 1936. "The size of the horizontal and vertical tail area is influenced by the characteristics of the wing section, the location of the center of balance (CG), the characteristics and location of the tail area, and the downwash from the main wing."
The -22 has a shorter fuselage arm as well as a shorter span, less area wing than a -12 or -18. Just bolting on a smaller tail because it has balanced surfaces is not the answer. There are other considerations.

 

Steve Pierce

BENEFACTOR

Graham, TX

• Jul 14, 2020

• #13

The PA20/22 tail feathers are the same width as the tail on the J3, PA11, PA12 and PA18-95. There is an STC for the balnced PA20/22 tail feathers on the PA11. Got a field approval for them on a PA18-95. Made a huge difference in the heavy feel on the 90 hp Super Cub when slow and also felt like it gace more elevator authority that we lost when we moved the battery under the front seat. I pesonally prefer the battery/CH aft.

 

skywagon8a

MEMBER

SE Mass MA6

• Jul 14, 2020

• #14

You did well getting a field approval. The way I read this: https://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/other/major_repair_alteration_job-aid r5.pdf on page 13 is, that would require engineering and an STC.
I do agree that changing to a balanced elevator would lighten the control pressures. The legal mechanism to do so is in question.

 

Steve Pierce

BENEFACTOR

Graham, TX

• Jul 14, 2020

• #15

skywagon8a said:

You did well getting a field approval. The way I read this: https://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/other/major_repair_alteration_job-aid r5.pdf on page 13 is, that would require engineering and an STC.
I do agree that changing to a balanced elevator would lighten the control pressures. The legal mechanism to do so is in question.

Click to expand...

Yes, back long before that document came out and my PMI had GA experience and common sense.

 

algonquin

MEMBER

Seldovia,Ak

• Jul 14, 2020

• #16

From a fellow PA-12 builder, I’ve found there really isn’t any short cut building them. By far easier to just get ready to spend the money and not chase around trying to save and get the same results. The 12 in most cases isn’t the best investment for return on your money, the 18 is the much better investment. A lot of guys have tried all these thing, including myself and ended up biting the bullet and going with a STC on the PA -18 tail.

 

hotrod180

FRIEND

Port Townsend, WA

• Jul 14, 2020

• #17

Steve Pierce said:

.....and my PMI had GA experience and common sense.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is apparently becoming the exception rather than the rule.

 

G

gstrampher

MEMBER

Hunters, WA

• Jul 14, 2020

• #18

Thank you everyone for you advice and comments on Super Cub tail feathers.
I ordered two new PA-18 horizontal stabs and elevators from F. Atlee Dodge...

 

Stew

FRIEND

Haywards Heath, UK

• Jul 16, 2020

• #19

Bit late in the day but just looked at possibly some relevant drawings, PM me with an email if you want the .pdf sent over

Kind regards

Stew

 

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G

gstrampher

MEMBER

Hunters, WA

• Jul 16, 2020

• #20

Thanks Stew, I already found and downloaded these pdf's. They confirmed what I read on this thread about my tail feathers...

 

U

Utah 12 Driver

SPONSOR

Jax Beach, Florida

• Jul 16, 2020

• #21

"The Award Winning"(Dam Sizemore)Steve Pierce comes thru again! great insight my friend!

I wouldn't want anything but PA-18 tail feathers on a PA-12 they are nose heavy anyway you do it. Buy the PA-18 feathers and sleep well at night knowing your plane is safe and compliant. These planes see too much backcountry time to play around with anything funky! i would think a forward slip with PA-22 feathers "could" get interesting in a hurry, maybe not but why risk it!