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c-180/185 Airworthiness Directives

B

bob turner

Registered User
I see 99 of them on the FAA archives, but would have to look most of them up to see if they really apply. Not above doing that, but was hoping maybe somebody has already done it? I did the Super Cub and posted it a long time ago, but am not looking forward to researching these.

Airframe log lists 19, but info on what they are and when they were done is, of course, sparse. Airplane is really clean, low time 185F.

yes, I did a search. Nothing really popped out.
 
This question is impossible to answer- you’ll have to man up and go through each one to see if it applies by model, serial number, etc. This is why you, as an FAA certified mechanic, make the big bucks. I doubt you really want to sign off AD’s based on an Internet forum response... That being said, some of the AD software programs can really help narrow down the results- 99 is way too many, unless that includes engine and all possible appliances.
 
When a new customer comes to you they need to realize that you are going to have to spend several hours going through the records including the AD log. The plane has an AD log, right? Even so, most miss a bunch of appliance ADs.
 
Some of them are easy. One says "turbine propeller shaft." Most do not have enough descriptive material.
I don't do annuals, except on my own aircraft, and you bet I "man up" and get a complete description, including how c/w and date/page, and copy all of them into the latest logbook. Takes around eight hours the first time; then just check the bi-weekly. Even with T-data.

This is a good friend's airplane. It has had annuals by the best, including that 180 repair shop in Colorado. Nobody has created an a/d record worth very much - and I find that typical with the few airplanes I agree to help with. This one - the old guys who did the inspections both croaked.

Can't wait to see the weight/balance. They are almost always simply incorrect, at least on Cubs.
 
I do 3 listings, one for ones that do NOT apply and why not, then another for ones that do apply. And a third sheet for reoccurring ads. You only need to do this once... then just look for new ones next time


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I create an Excel spreadsheet and similar to Mike, I have three columns for N/A, one-time and recurring. There is a field for date, method of compliance, next-due, etc. But again, a new to you customer is going to involve several hours of work depending on how bad/incomplete/sloppy the records are. What makes the process easier is access to a list of all of the installed equipment and mode #, s/n#.
 
I use TData Avant to do my AD searches. You can try using the RGL, but so many ADs reference manufacturers Service Bulletins, and without access to them you are dead in the water. There are a number of 3rd party vendors for ADs and SB data and they provide a convenient method for making a listing. If you only look at the airframe, you are only doing 1/4 of the job! This is why it is so important for the OWNER to maintain an up to date EQUIPMENT LIST. When you do inspections, you need to research the airframe ADs, engine ADs, propeller ADs, and equipment ADs. There are a lot of equipment (appliance) ADs that get missed for years! Most violations against mechanics are for missing AD compliance during inspections. If it is your first time looking at a given airplane budget about 10 hours minimum for a thorough records review. Some airplane take longer, some less, but I find about 10 hours average.


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I agree with the ten hours. I will not sign an annual without something like the Excel list mentioned above in the back of the current log.

This aircraft is pristine - yet the fuel bladder AD was never done! Still haven't figured out if it has a cigar lighter. Getting a T-data print out tomorrow. Slick mags, not mentioned in any logbook ever! Look brand new.
 
I spent an hour just getting a vague idea of what has to happen.

I helped a relative buy a Mooney a while back - it was built in the 1970s, maintained by a Mooney dealer with a repair shop designation. No logbook evidence of fuel tank or control yoke ADs, over twenty years of annuals.

I agree - once done properly, the next annual requires only checking the bi-weekly. Ten minutes for paperwork.

I am the same for alterations - I list them in one spot, with a statement as to how and when. This one needs a 337 for one mod. The other was done by a repair station.
 
Just today - after a week - the owner came by with a previously done T-data list, signed by an A&P, and another from the engine overhauler, also signed by an A&P. There is no mention of any of them in the actual logbook. So my job is to make sure they are in the logbook. That, of course, is not a legal requirement, but I am not doing this next year, so the next shop won't have to start from zero.

I am at hour 3, and my observation is this:

If you own a Cessna 185 and you lose the logbooks, you could be in for an engine teardown and a $20,000 paperwork adventure. A lot of them are indeed N/A by S/N, but still, a lot of work!

It will take the entire ten hours to get it squared away. We don't have to do them; just check that they are done.

My next question:

I am finding 337s for instrument replacements done by FAA repair stations. No approved data referenced. They sound like minor alterations to me. And, yikes! An autopilot with, so far, no mention in the logbook, let alone a 337. I may yet find adequate approval - it is a really good autopilot.

Glad I don't do this for a living - I would go nuts.
 
I am finding almost everything, except whether this bird has Goodyear BTS-39 bladders. Does Cessna maintain this kind of info on older aircraft?

About half of the major alterations do not have 337s. I suppose they could have been lost. I now am aware that even FAA repair shops must submit 337s for major alterations.
 
bob turner said:
I am finding almost everything, except whether this bird has Goodyear BTS-39 bladders. Does Cessna maintain this kind of info on older aircraft?

About half of the major alterations do not have 337s. I suppose they could have been lost. I now am aware that even FAA repair shops must submit 337s for major alterations.
Click to expand...

Hard to believe the same fuel cells would be installed since 1978. I,d look long and hard to find an entry replacing the fuel cells. Doing that standpipe test is a pain. Sometimes it,s easier to pop the covers and try and see if you can find the markings on the bladder to confirm it isn’t BTC-39. I’d look in the 1990 time frame since the other fuel cell for wrinkles was in 1990.


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bob turner said:
Just today - after a week - the owner came by with a previously done T-data list, signed by an A&P, and another from the engine overhauler, also signed by an A&P. There is no mention of any of them in the actual logbook. So my job is to make sure they are in the logbook. That, of course, is not a legal requirement, but I am not doing this next year, so the next shop won't have to start from zero.

I am at hour 3, and my observation is this:

If you own a Cessna 185 and you lose the logbooks, you could be in for an engine teardown and a $20,000 paperwork adventure. A lot of them are indeed N/A by S/N, but still, a lot of work!

It will take the entire ten hours to get it squared away. We don't have to do them; just check that they are done.

My next question:

I am finding 337s for instrument replacements done by FAA repair stations. No approved data referenced. They sound like minor alterations to me. And, yikes! An autopilot with, so far, no mention in the logbook, let alone a 337. I may yet find adequate approval - it is a really good autopilot.

Glad I don't do this for a living - I would go nuts.
Click to expand...

Auto pilot definitely needs an STC and 337 along with a Flight Manual Supplement.


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True, but the original application for airworthiness should list the STC number as being installed at the time of certification.


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Nope. Done in 1998 by an FAA repair station - which is still in business! That may work. They did a 337 on something called a "Strikefinder" at the same time they did the autopilot, HSI, and other things. No STC or Field Approval on the Strikefinder.

Good news on the bladders - the AD specifies 180/185, but in the first paragraph above that it says "manufactured before December 1973". This aircraft rolled out in late 1974. Whew!

Got the FAA cd. Owner had it. Illuminating! Several well-executed 337s never made it to OKC, and several others did make it with no corresponding copy or record in the aircraft paperwork.
 
bob turner said:
Nope. Done in 1998 by an FAA repair station - which is still in business! That may work. They did a 337 on something called a "Strikefinder" at the same time they did the autopilot, HSI, and other things. No STC or Field Approval on the Strikefinder.

Good news on the bladders - the AD specifies 180/185, but in the first paragraph above that it says "manufactured before December 1973". This aircraft rolled out in late 1974. Whew!

Got the FAA cd. Owner had it. Illuminating! Several well-executed 337s never made it to OKC, and several others did make it with no corresponding copy or record in the aircraft paperwork.
Click to expand...

spending WAY to much time looking at/for paperwork... did you notice the parts where the wings were about to fall off???
 
Hah! You could eat your lunch off of any square inch on the airframe or engine. This thing is a creampuff. The IAs since 1998 have been signing two A/Ds as C/W, and ignoring the rest. One of the A/Ds (the fuel cap one) is apparently terminated with new cap design - STC'd, but no 337. So how is it C/W ? By ignoring it? Still learning.

Would you do the same? I think it needs to go through a qualified 180 shop every ten years or so, but its owner is a meticulous mechanic. So we are going to get the paperwork right, find an AFM, generate an equipment list, and twist his arm for an hour of pattern work when it is done.

I gotta tell you - I have renewed respect for folks who do this for a living - at least for the ones who do a paperwork check.
 
bob turner said:
Hah! You could eat your lunch off of any square inch on the airframe or engine. This thing is a creampuff. The IAs since 1998 have been signing two A/Ds as C/W, and ignoring the rest. One of the A/Ds (the fuel cap one) is apparently terminated with new cap design - STC'd, but no 337. So how is it C/W ? .....
Click to expand...

My 180 has 3 recurring AD's:
76-07012 bendix ignition switch
2011-10-09 seats & rails
84-10-01 R1 bladders & caps

All the rest are one-timers.

84-10-01 R1 is c/w by annual inspection, paragraph (d).
Don't think caps have to be replaced.
 
Thanks! I forgot about that ignition switch, and it did not show up on the T-data list, nor in the logbook.

When I say clean, I mean inside too. They chromated the inside, and it looks like it was done yesterday.

And yes, I have seen show quality Cubs with internal rust and unapproved alterations. I love to fly 180s, but have never annualled one before. I did rebuild the tail cone of one a couple decades ago (with mucho help from this forum).
 
So rolling on to about ten hours spent on paperwork. I note that recent ADs require MSBs to even see if they apply - really, they won't even tell you the dates of manufacture of cylinders, diaphragms - ADs are just becoming a zoo.

"Go check AFS SB6, revision 2, to see if you are about to fall out of the sky." That is for an AD that purports to apply to all fuel injected engines. When you do the research, it only applies if you use a part manufactured in five months of 2010. Boo!

IAs need a JD.
 
I always said to be a mechanic you also need to be a lawyer, or at least think like one!


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