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Folding front seat.....

TurboBeaver

TurboBeaver

Registered User
Northern Maine
Decided to hinge my front seat back. I almost always like Atlees designs on most things Super Cub. But his front seat mod just doesn't work for me. Had it on two planes but don't know WHY he chose to use the vertical tubes as the hinge point?
It leaves all that seatback tubing that's below the hinge point; facing back almost to the rear stick, when seat is folded down??? Makes it harder for rear seat passenger to load?
Champion hinged their seats from the front
Of the diagonal brace on bottom seat tubes. Just seams to be a better design for simplicity. Leaves an open hole between the front and rear seats.
However they just flattened the diagonal brace tube and bored a hole in it. Then bored a hole in seat tubing and put a bolt thru it all. Simple but very basic. I am going to go that route, but wanted a proper " hinge"
Our male part design, will insert into the inside of diagonal brace tube, after it is cut off, The female will get Tig welded
ontop of the seat tubing right where the brace tube was welded. Creating a proper machined hinge correctly alignment to center of both tubes. Then we will cut the vertical seat back tubes off and Tig washers onto both faces so when they come togeather all the pressure will get distributed over the washers, one washer will have a tapered pin in it for precise alignment of seat back to bottom tubes.
Here are some photos of the hinge we did today. More to follow ( used same ball end mill as I used to make saddle ring STUDS for model 1894 Winchester's!!!! ) Lol.
.IMG_20200630_110737978.jpegIMG_20200630_114247074.jpegIMG_20200630_141249007.jpeg

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Like to see that one Mike. I am thinking bout welding a small loop out of top of seat back,(after I cut the square corners off it and 45 them); that will become the control lock over the stick, when it's folded down???[emoji6]
E

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I seem to remember an AD on Champion/American Champion seats for cracking from th back seat person pulling themselves out by the seat back. I never really noticed an issue with the Atlee mod. I still have a stock seat and usually just fly with my dogs back there.
 
I have to put them in. They are either to small or old and lazy.
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Thanks Mike for posting that! Is that sorta a take off of a PA 11 folding seat? Very simple effective [emoji106] way.
Steve the dogs look anxious to get going!
Very cool.

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must have been the deal back then, its how mine was done, still very solid.
attachment.php
 
mike mcs repair said:
View attachment 49779

View attachment 49780

View attachment 49781





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Click to expand...
Do you have a picture of the upholstery and how it was done to access the bolts to fold the seat? Looks like more work to fold. I have never had an issue with the Atlee seat mod once we got Oregon Aero to adjust their seat cushions not to push the seat back upholstery up everytime the seat is folded. Doesn't hit a stock torque tube in a PA18 with the seat all the way back.
 
Steve Pierce said:
Do you have a picture of the upholstery and how it was done to access the bolts to fold the seat? Looks like more work to fold. I have never had an issue with the Atlee seat mod once we got Oregon Aero to adjust their seat cushions not to push the seat back upholstery up everytime the seat is folded. Doesn't hit a stock torque tube in a PA18 with the seat all the way back.
Click to expand...

Upholstery isn’t done yet


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I've had a couple cubs with that setup and always wanted to have them pinned so rear stuffing can't push the pilot forward in an upset. Getting out inverted or in the water would be tough.

Gary
 
Steve Pierce said:
Were these field approved or just done? I have seen a PA12 done the same way.
Click to expand...

Steve
I have gotten a couple of them field approved. This was one of them. Can provide a 337 copy if needed for anyone desiring to copy. I have seen several similar ones done that were not documented. I know of one that had shortened the base of the vertical tubes to allow the back to recline. He had a couple of shims to put in place to adjust it.

“I've had a couple cubs with that setup and always wanted to have them pinned so rear stuffing can't push the pilot forward in an upset. Getting out inverted or in the water would be tough.”

Agree, but a double edge sword for rear passenger getting out. This approach is still far better then Atlees as it has no restraint either but the tubes going rearward could trap or injure the passenger trying to get out in a panic.

Ive got one cub in the shop now with this seat hinge, and I’m looking to add some type of a spring loaded latch for it. Pulling pins and bolts are to easy to loose and then reinstall after loading a passenger.
 
My wife found the Atlee design unacceptable. Tore into her leg once getting out of the back and from then on we moved the seat forward and left it upright. A latch would be good.

Gary
 
Committed now! Lol . Have it mostly all fitted and ready to TiG the bases on, then the brace tubing, will receive male part of hinge. Last will be washers on all 4 faces of the vertical tubing. Did a mock up
Trial to see how the arc is going to come out looks like it's going to be parallel with seat bottom about 4" from it, that's exactly
The thickness of the cushion! So looks good so far.[emoji41]IMG_20200702_135359650.jpeg

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TurboBeaver said:
Committed now! Lol . Have it mostly all fitted and ready to TiG the bases on, then the brace tubing, will receive male part of hinge. Last will be washers on all 4 faces of the vertical tubing. Did a mock up
Trial to see how the arc is going to come out looks like it's going to be parallel with seat bottom about 4" from it, that's exactly
The thickness of the cushion! So looks good so far.[emoji41]View attachment 49799

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Click to expand...
do you have the base of the seat out of the plane?
 
No Doug the base is in the plane, just working on top half. Just finished turning some tapered pins, for alignment when rear tubes come togeather. Should be all done tomorrow morning, So will post more
pics as we finish up welding. Looks like this mod adds 7 oz to seat weight. More later .

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the few times ive messed with seat bases ive put doublers inside the tube bottom that are about a inch long or so where the seat base attach bolts go through and tigged it around the bottom, just for a little strength
 
mike mcs repair said:
Common and a great idea!! I do same


Unless I’m mistaken the weakness of the lower seat frame attachments is the rational for attaching the seat belts to the floor. The tubing and or attachment straps would tear out sending everything forward.

I've often wondered:
If the tubing sleeves were added, along with increasing the attachment strap size, and upsize to 1/4 inch bolts, would the floor mounted belt attachments be worth it?
Click to expand...
 
I would say the major problem is people are trying to get by with 60 year old airframes and seats without good inspections at rebuild or along the life of the aircraft!! At some point in the life of the airframe someone has to get 50cc of SUCKITUP and make sure all the parts are as good as the day they came out of the factory. If they are not, fix and upgrade as needed.
DENNY
 
DENNY said:
I would say the major problem is people are trying to get by with 60 year old airframes and seats without good inspections at rebuild or along the life of the aircraft!! At some point in the life of the airframe someone has to get 50cc of SUCKITUP and make sure all the parts are as good as the day they came out of the factory. If they are not, fix and upgrade as needed.
DENNY
Click to expand...

the second guy I worked under did those types of thorough Annuals.... seat base came out all interior side panels came out..... kinda way overkill on an EVERY year basis....
 
mike mcs repair said:
the second guy I worked under did those types of thorough Annuals.... seat base came out all interior side panels came out..... kinda way overkill on an EVERY year basis....
Click to expand...
Many years back, a C-210 I maintained was never used. For five years I brought it in the hangar, cleaned the plugs repacked wheel bearings gave it the full lookover. After tying it down and signing the logs, I realized in the five years the only time on the plane was mine. That was the time I transitioned to restoration work full time.
 

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Thinking I may weld two overlapping tabs on backside of vertical tubes, drill a hole thru them ,so you will have the option of making it solid again, with two bolts thru those holes?[emoji849]
Example of extra room for loading and no
Feet restrictions.[emoji6]IMG_20200703_111517339.jpegIMG_20200703_111709874_HDR.jpegIMG_20200703_112842861_HDR.jpeg

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