New kid on the block - Smith Cub

Web,
What you've seen so far in this construction is exactly the way I wanted to be. Light & simple is certainly the ultimate goal here but also as I mentioned at the beginning: ''The mission for this bird is to be a Gentleman’s bush plane. I have no intention to be the guy that lands & takes off the shortest distance but rather be the guy that can go anywhere (On & OFF Airport )in a comfortable cockpit well equipped for Day / Night (IFR if I have to).''

Gents:
I am now page 6 on this construction...I would be very curious to see with your experience around Supercub, what would be your estimate for the empty weight of my cub. It’s all for fun naturally. I'll have a 0-360 with catto prop and you've seen the list of avionics goodies...I estimate another 18 months of construction before I'm done. I will keep a list with your nickname / name / whatever and see who's closest (+/- 50 pounds).
Again, just for fun!!!
Dan

1275 pounds.

My estimate: 1175 pounds

What wheels and tires are you planning on?

Web

wireweinie said:

What wheels and tires are you planning on?

Web

Click to expand...

Tire: 6.00 - 6 for test flight
Wheel & brakes: Matco WHLWI600XLT-1 for PA-18 AXLE (1.5'')
Dan

The work is some of the best I have ever seen so far, but HEAVY. At this rate 1305 lbs
DENNY

Buzzcola777 said:

Tire: 6.00 - 6 for test flight
Wheel & brakes: Matco WHLWI600XLT-1 for PA-18 AXLE (1.5'')
Dan

Click to expand...

Those even fit anymore on a cub???


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As I mentionned earlier, I would be very curious to see with your experience around Supercub, what would be your estimate for the empty weight of my cub. It’s all for fun naturally. I'll have a 0-360 with catto prop and you've seen the list of avionics goodies...I estimate another 18 months of construction before I'm done. I will keep a list with your nickname / name / whatever and see who's closest (+/- 50 pounds).
Again, just for fun!!!

DAN’S SMITH CUB

ESTIMATE EMPTY WEIGHT

Electrical / Avionic and the like…Part 3

Time to dive into the wiring side of it...I'll tell you I'm not an electrician and this part of the project is a STEEP learning curve for me...Anyway, here we go!!!


First, figure out where all these wires go (GRT EIS)... Fun fun fun!!


Then connect goodies (Fuel Pump / Landing light / Navigation/Position lights etc...)to wires then to switches


Amazing the amount of wires...


That is my oldest son Cedrik. He is a Medical Officer / Flight Surgeon in the Canadian Forces and love helping his Dad when he has a chance (That's what he says...)


Rocker switches in the instrument panel and getting tested.


Installation of the fuselage


All wires and connections are identified (at the beginning / middle & end of wires) on a strip and sealed with a clear shrink tube. I also keep a list of what goes where...

More to follow!

Dan

Couple points. First, when it comes to routing and bundling airframe wires, start from the least populated areas and work towards the most populated areas. I.e., route all wires from tail, overhead, and wing roots, to the forward side of the panel area. When all of these are routed, start bundling each run using nylon lacing card. As you work from tie to tie, comb ALL tangles out of the bundle. And I mean all of them. You want them laying parallel in each run as this will make the smallest bundle possible and removes the possibility of damage due to kinks or pinches. When you get to the panel area, route the bundle to the items it terminates to, such as the switches. As the bundle passes each switch, bring the appropriate wire out of the bundle and tie that wire into place, on the bundle, with nylon cord. Only when each wire is in place do you cut it to length and terminate it.

Second point is that you'll never be able to see/replace a fuse in that location, in flight.

Web

Just a random thought. There was quite a bit of discussion earlier on the pros and cons of fuses versus circuit breakers. At work, yes I fly for a living, we are absolutely not allowed to reset a circuit breaker except in a dire emergency, with a system that is absolutely critical to continued flight. And if we do reset the circuit breaker it is declared an emergency, followed by a whole Lotta paperwork. The idea being that if a circuit breaker pops there is a problem. And the last thing you want is a inflight fire. I put a fuse panel underneath my panel, and that pretty much prevents me from resetting some thing in flight. There is nothing on a VFR airplane that would be considered “critical to flight” and worthy of an emergency. If you have circuit breakers, it is extremely tempting to reset one in flight. If you do so you risk an in-flight fire. Perhaps the risk is low, but it is there. This is just something I offer for you to think about.

Best Regards

Bill

You move fast so it is hard to get ahead with advice so this may be too late. Before you do the final installation into the plane of the panel and insterments you need to put the boot cowl back on and do it with the boot cowl in place. It is going to be more work that way but it will show you what can and cannot be done from a maintenance standpoint. With the high side panels and shelf in place you may find you cannot reach some of the equipment. The I-pad hole in the middle may save the day but the engine information box is blocking the top part and getting to the back of any thing above or to the outside of the radio stack is going to be hard. Now is the time to find out and move stuff or cut access holes if needed.
DENNY

I'm on the other side of that argument. If you don't wish to reset a circuit breaker, then don't. I believe in having the ability if needed. Some examples are, fuel pump for belly pod, lights at night, or even a nav system in poor weather. Up here, that fuel transfer from belly pod to the fuel tank could mean the difference between making it to a safe place, or not. In those cases, I want the pilot to have the option of resetting the breaker as many times as he sees fit.

Web

I agree with Web on the circuit breakers vs fuses in small aircraft. I've had circuit breakers trip, waited a few minutes after checking systems and for smoke, then reset, and never had another issue. Voltage spike, or??? Who knows.

When we installed the Rosti Fernandez retractable skis on a Husky, the "Do Switch" (ie, the activation switch, as opposed to the "skis up, skis down" switch was a 60 amp Potter and Brumfeld circuit breaker. So, to cycle the skis, you selected skis up or down, then pressed the "Do switch", ie: you reset that circuit breaker. The electric motor ran the pump until the ski got to its limit, the hydraulics stalled the electric motor, which tripped the circuit breaker.

In other words, every time you cycled the gear, that circuit breaker tripped, and was reset each time you needed to reconfigure.

Those skis are STCd under JAA rules. Which constitutes "Approved Data" to the US. The skis were subsequently STCd in the US. All using a circuit breaker that has to trip to move the skis.

Because there was no US STC at the time we installed the skis, we got a field approval. The maintenance Inspector who signed off the FA based on the JAA approval, came over the looked at the plane. He almost had a cow when he realized how the gear worked. He insisted on a call to the fellow in Germany who'd got the JAA approval, and asked about the circuit breaker as an actuator, and limit switch. He was asked "Do you know how many times that circuit breaker was required to repeatedly trip safely with overload without failure by YOUR FAA?" Uh, nope..... The answer, if I recall was on the order of 60,000 cycles. Without error. Te follow up question was: "How many times are you going to cycle those skis?". End of conversation.

I trust circuit breakers, assuming they're properly installed. My policy has always been to verify no smoke, etc, reset the circuit breaker ONCE, and once only. If it comes back on line, all is well. If it trips again, I do NOT reset it, and get it to maintenance.

But, whatever winds your watch. These are not Boeing or Airbus aircraft.

MTV

1275 # empty weight and a couple things to add to Denny’s point on serviceability.
Weight has been discussed, also consider resale. Might be the farthest thing from your mind right now but at some point..
Adding to many personal touches can de value an aircraft and limit your market.
Keep it simple.

Very interesting and informative discussion. Here is what higher authority have to say about that:

The NTSB says it’s time to rethink something most GA pilots learned early in their training: If a circuit breaker trips while you’re flying, it’s okay to reset it after allowing a minute or two for it to cool, even if you have no idea what caused it to trip and cut off electrical power to a particular circuit. Only if the breaker trips a second time should you not try to restore power by resetting it—so the thinking has been. This still appears in operating handbooks put out by aircraft manufacturers, as well as in literature on aircraft operations.

Largely as an outgrowth of the in-flight fire and crash of a Swissair MD-11 in 1998, and an FAA Advisory Circular (AC) issued in 2004, air carriers reviewed the procedures followed by their flight crews in the event of a tripped circuit breaker. Guidance was updated to inform flight crews that if the cause of the breaker trip is unknown, or if the breaker controls a nonessential circuit, it should not be reset. Aircraft operated under Part 121 commonly have indicators, such as circuit breaker markings or coloring or segregated placement of specific circuit breakers in the cockpit, showing which circuit breakers are critical.

"Special caution is appropriate where fuel pumps and/or FQIS (fuel quantity indicating system) are involved, because of the possibility that arcing could lead to ignition of fuel or fuel vapors. The FAA has issued airworthiness directives (AD) affecting certain airplane makes and models that: (1) prohibit the resetting of fuel boost pump CB’s in flight, and (2) prohibit resetting a fuel boost pump while the airplane is on the ground without first identifying the source of the electrical fault. Because of similar arcing potential, resetting FQIS CB’s should be likewise restricted."

If a circuit breaker trips while in flight, do not reset the breaker unless you feel it is absolutely necessary for the safe completion of the flight. Since most general aviation airplanes will fly just fine with absolutely no electrical power at all, there really isn't much that is critical to flight. If a fire does occur, realize it is an extreme emergency that may make it impossible to reach an airport only eight nm away. If there is any indication the fire is growing, such as increasing smoke or heat, don't try to make it to an airport, but get the airplane on the ground as soon as possible while trying to avoid damage or injury to people on the ground. You literally may only have a minute or two left before you are overcome by the smoke and heat, or the fire causes damage that makes it impossible to control the airplane.

All my flying will be VFR, it is an easy choice for me, no breakers / fuses will be resetted in flight.

Oliver said:

1275 # empty weight and a couple things to add to Denny’s point on serviceability.
Weight has been discussed, also consider resale. Might be the farthest thing from your mind right now but at some point..
Adding to many personal touches can de value an aircraft and limit your market.
Keep it simple.

Click to expand...

Things to think about!
Thanks Oliver and your name has been added to the list!
Dan

Second point is that you'll never be able to see/replace a fuse in that location, in flight.

Web[/QUOTE]

I'll show the location of the fuses location soon. What you are looking at (black box) is the Dual Bus

DENNY said:

You move fast so it is hard to get ahead with advice so this may be too late. Before you do the final installation into the plane of the panel and interments you need to put the boot cowl back on and do it with the boot cowl in place. It is going to be more work that way but it will show you what can and cannot be done from a maintenance standpoint. With the high side panels and shelf in place you may find you cannot reach some of the equipment. The I-pad hole in the middle may save the day but the engine information box is blocking the top part and getting to the back of any thing above or to the outside of the radio stack is going to be hard. Now is the time to find out and move stuff or cut access holes if needed.
DENNY

Click to expand...

Denny, good points!
Yes, the boot cowl has been checked numerous time = No problems.
The EIS is easily removable (4 screws)
Dan

I'm not trying to be sh!!!*&y here, but you should go find an airplane with the panel area opened up, or better yet, find an electrical guy doing a rewire. Study how and where the wiring is installed and ask a BUNCH of 'why' and 'how' questions. It's your project but you should find out why you are doing stuff that the rest of us wouldn't. Web

wireweinie said:

I'm not trying to be sh!!!*&y here, but you should go find an airplane with the panel area opened up, or better yet, find an electrical guy doing a rewire. Study how and where the wiring is installed and ask a BUNCH of 'why' and 'how' questions. It's your project but you should find out why you are doing stuff that the rest of us wouldn't. Web

Click to expand...

Well, most of the cub have seen so far are a real mess under the dash...My citabria was a nightmare to figure out which wire was going where... Don't worried, once I'm done everything will be accessible and easily identifiable, just need a little bit more time...

Electrical / Avionic and the like…Part 4

Couple months ago I bought from Guardian Avionics a smart panel mount for the IPad and iPhone. The IPad mount was just perfect but IPhone mount was way too big for the instrument panel. So, my son and I have drawn up a similar design from Guardian but adapted it to my instrument panel. To do this we grabbed the 3D printer and put it to work.




Just a glimpse of how fun it is to play with a computer


3D printer at work... Mind you it is an early sample built to test the concept so the finish is rough due to the speed used.


Small trap that pushes the IPhone out of the chassis. To remove it– just slide the iPhone, pull the knob on the right.


Testing the panel mount.


Built-in ports for the Apple Lightning plug and a 3.5mm audio cable help keep cables safely and securely positioned behind the panel, allowing you the ability to connect to power, data, and audio without the cord mess. Also, It allows the iPhone to be docked in seconds, fully connected to power.



That will do the job!


Printed a bigger knob. Easier to pull the mechanism that ejects the iphone.

Experimental is sooooo great!!

Dan

Are you doing a swing out mount? If so all wires/cables should come out the left side of the firewall so you can swing the mount without disconnecting anything. If you run wires and cables out both sides you will have to disconnect stuff when you swing the engine.
DENNY

DENNY said:

Are you doing a swing out mount? If so all wires/cables should come out the left side of the firewall so you can swing the mount without disconnecting anything. If you run wires and cables out both sides you will have to disconnect stuff when you swing the engine.
DENNY

Click to expand...

No, the regular engine mount.

Buzzcola777 said:

No, the regular engine mount.

Click to expand...

The "regular" is a "swing-out" mount so if you think you will ever swing it out make provisions now. Looks good so far. The avionics is a learning curve no matter who you are....

My guess 1370lbs.

Grant said:

The "regular" is a "swing-out" mount so if you think you will ever swing it out make provisions now. Looks good so far. The avionics is a learning curve no matter who you are....

My guess 1370lbs.

Click to expand...

So the original cub came with the swing-out? See, I did not know that! One more thing I learned today about the cub.
OK Grant, your name is on the list!....1370 Lbs, Ouch!!
Dan

DENNY said:

Are you doing a swing out mount? If so all wires/cables should come out the left side of the firewall so you can swing the mount without disconnecting anything. If you run wires and cables out both sides you will have to disconnect stuff when you swing the engine.
DENNY

Click to expand...

Worked on a well know manufacture rebuild cub from Alaska. They had stuff running out of every side. There’s a reason piper did things they way they did. The only thing you usually have to disconnect is the tach cable. Watch out for the stock exhaust hitting the boot cowl when you swing it


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RaisedByWolves said:

Worked on a well know manufacture rebuild cub from Alaska. They had stuff running out of every side. There’s a reason piper did things they way they did. The only thing you usually have to disconnect is the tach cable. Watch out for the stock exhaust hitting the boot cowl when you swing it


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Click to expand...

I remember that. You uncowled it and said "thank God we don't have to swing the engine". And then we ended up having to swing the engine.


Here is how Piper routed things.

Steve Pierce said:

Here is how Piper routed things.

Click to expand...

Steve,
Thanks for the photos, very nice!
Question: do the braces holding the nose bowl swing with the engine or you have to disconnect them?
Dan

No, you remove the cowl rails, one screw and nut in the firewall end and same on nose bowl end.